Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football
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genghis dong
What does nedd mean? The word is spelled need, and you're the one correcting my spelling. What a dick!skank;996905 wrote:Another nice article.
Please read it all....But especially the highlighted words/sentences.
Coach Crable denies allegations [HR][/HR]Letter details complaints
By Michael D. Clark
The Cincinnati Enquirer
Rival public schools accuse Moeller High School — a nationally known Catholic football power that has waned recently — of two clear violations of player recruiting rules and of violating the spirit of the rules.
Greater Miami Conference documents obtained by the Enquirer show allegations that Moeller illicitly recruited public school students with a postage-paid pamphlet soliciting personal information and through a coach's visit to a church. The schools also complained that Moeller recruited at a Pee Wee football practice, against the spirit of the Ohio High School Athletic Association's bylaws.
The Enquirer reported earlier that Columbus-based OHSAA officials traveled Monday to both Princeton and Moeller in the initial stages of investigating the storied football program. The GMC documents, obtained this week through the Freedom of Information Act, include the letter that triggered the investigation.
“The principals of the (GMC) view this as a very serious matter,” stated Princeton High School Principal Raymond Bauer, who is also president of the GMC's Principal Committee, in a Dec. 7 letter to OHSAA officials.
His letter detailed two alleged recruiting instances that he said were “in clear violation of OHSAA bylaws” — the brochure “regarding the football program requesting information ... and also if they are in need of financial assistance,” and “a sport-specific flier directed at 7th and 8th grade students at (a Catholic church) which services both public and parochial schools.”
Moeller coach Bob Crable on Thursday denied any illicit recruiting and said the GMC complained because “they are trying to protect themselves, protect their players and their districts.”
Mr. Crable agreed that the school distributed the pamphlet and that he had arranged to speak to young players at Good Shepherd Church in Montgomery and at a Pee Wee practice in Princeton's school district.
Moeller officials earlier said the now-discontinued pamphlets were designed only to “generate enthusiasm about Moeller” and its new coach. The color pamphlet asks young players to provide personal information such as school, team, coach, parents' name and whether they are interested in financial aid from Moeller, and to mail back the stamped card.
GMC athletic officials from Princeton, Sycamore and Lakota West have already met with OSHAA officials. The GMC also includes football powers Colerain and Hamilton.
Recruiting rules are meant to help competitive fairness among schools of varying resources and to guard against improper enticements of young athletes. The accusations of recruiting violations and the rare OHSAA investigation come as Moeller is rebuilding after a disappointing season. The school has won seven state championships and five mythical national championships.
The Crusaders were 5-5 last season as three Greater Cincinnati teams — Colerain, St. Xavier and Elder — were among the nation's top 25-rated teams, a first for a single city.
Mr. Crable said Thursday: “Yes, (the pamphlet) looks from a outsider trying to interpret the rules — and certainly from a standpoint of where Sycamore and Princeton are coming from” like a recruiting pamphlet.
“Unfortunately, the perception is different from the intention. That's why we stopped it,” he said, referring to the school's decision to halt distribution after an initial complaint was made to the school in November.
According to OHSAA bylaws, schools may use such pamphlets in “mass marketing,” but only if such literature also addresses other aspects of the school — such as academics — along with sports.
There is no mention of academics in the Moeller pamphlet.
“Where we made the mistake was ... was not including other aspects of the school,” Mr. Crable said.
He doesn't dispute GMC officials' contention that he arranged a Sept. 24 meeting for seventh- and eighth-grade boys at Good Shepherd Church to recruit for Moeller football, but denied that was improper. However, OHSAA bylaws prohibit sports recruiting beyond the sixth grade.
Mr. Crable also didn't dispute that he recruited 11-year-old boys at a Pee Wee football practice in Sharonville on Oct. 9. He said he distributed the football pamphlet in question at the practice.
Though Mr. Crable's recruitment at Pee Wee football is described by GMC officials as only a violation of the spirit of the bylaws, it elicited comment from other current and former Catholic coaches.
Terry Malone, head football coach of Badin High School in Hamilton for 44 years, and the ninth-winningest coach in history of American high school football, said any Catholic coach actively recruiting at Pee Wee football is “going over the line” because there may be public school youngsters on the team.
Former Moeller football coach Steve Klonne, replaced in 2000 by Mr. Crable after 23 years at Moeller, agreed, saying: “I did not aggressively go to Pee Wee games to recruit. Basically, I followed the rules.”
Mr. Crable said whether his recruiting methods are in violation “is a decision (the OHSAA) is going to have to make.”
If the OHSAA rules against Moeller, then “we'll have to deal with that as it comes down,” he said. “But we are trying to do things the right way.”
OHSAA officials have said if Moeller is found guilty of violating the sports organization's rules, it could face penalties ranging from fines up to $1,000, public censure, denial of participation in postseason play, suspension from the OHSAA or other penalties deemed appropriate by the OHSAA commissioner. OHSAA Commissioner Clair Muscaro said the investigation is expected to last about two weeks, but declined further comment.
GMC officials and coaches said they would not comment on their accusations during the OHSAA investigation. Dan Andriacco, spokesman for the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, said: “If they (OHSAA) find a violation, they will levy the penalty, which we will enforce. We will cooperate in their investigation, if they need us, but I don't think they will.”
Some things I noticed.
"Questioned wether they would be in nedd of financial assistance". Isn't that an athletic scholarship?
If the pamphlet that Crable was passing out was legal, why would they "stop" passing it out, regardless of what the, "perception" was?
"However, OHSAA bylaws prohibit sports recruiting beyond the sixth grade"????
Crable....recruited 11 year olds? Wow, what a tool.
But my favorite was when Klonne said, "Basically, I followed the rules". BASICALLY? -
skank
genghis dong;996955 wrote:What does nedd mean? The word is spelled need, and you're the one correcting my spelling. What a ****!
You got me there.
Any comment about the article though? -
genghis dong
If Moeller did something wrong they should be punished. Not sure if you anything about geography but Cincy is 5 hours away from Ytown. So untill you want to post an article about Mooney the only team I know about or care about. I can't speak on any of it.skank;996965 wrote:You got me there.
Any comment about the article though? -
Thinthickbigred
Outstanding post . you always seem to come up with great proof and this is another timeskank;996905 wrote:Another nice article.
Please read it all....But especially the highlighted words/sentences.
Coach Crable denies allegations [HR][/HR]Letter details complaints
By Michael D. Clark
The Cincinnati Enquirer
Rival public schools accuse Moeller High School — a nationally known Catholic football power that has waned recently — of two clear violations of player recruiting rules and of violating the spirit of the rules.
Greater Miami Conference documents obtained by the Enquirer show allegations that Moeller illicitly recruited public school students with a postage-paid pamphlet soliciting personal information and through a coach's visit to a church. The schools also complained that Moeller recruited at a Pee Wee football practice, against the spirit of the Ohio High School Athletic Association's bylaws.
The Enquirer reported earlier that Columbus-based OHSAA officials traveled Monday to both Princeton and Moeller in the initial stages of investigating the storied football program. The GMC documents, obtained this week through the Freedom of Information Act, include the letter that triggered the investigation.
“The principals of the (GMC) view this as a very serious matter,” stated Princeton High School Principal Raymond Bauer, who is also president of the GMC's Principal Committee, in a Dec. 7 letter to OHSAA officials.
His letter detailed two alleged recruiting instances that he said were “in clear violation of OHSAA bylaws” — the brochure “regarding the football program requesting information ... and also if they are in need of financial assistance,” and “a sport-specific flier directed at 7th and 8th grade students at (a Catholic church) which services both public and parochial schools.”
Moeller coach Bob Crable on Thursday denied any illicit recruiting and said the GMC complained because “they are trying to protect themselves, protect their players and their districts.”
Mr. Crable agreed that the school distributed the pamphlet and that he had arranged to speak to young players at Good Shepherd Church in Montgomery and at a Pee Wee practice in Princeton's school district.
Moeller officials earlier said the now-discontinued pamphlets were designed only to “generate enthusiasm about Moeller” and its new coach. The color pamphlet asks young players to provide personal information such as school, team, coach, parents' name and whether they are interested in financial aid from Moeller, and to mail back the stamped card.
GMC athletic officials from Princeton, Sycamore and Lakota West have already met with OSHAA officials. The GMC also includes football powers Colerain and Hamilton.
Recruiting rules are meant to help competitive fairness among schools of varying resources and to guard against improper enticements of young athletes. The accusations of recruiting violations and the rare OHSAA investigation come as Moeller is rebuilding after a disappointing season. The school has won seven state championships and five mythical national championships.
The Crusaders were 5-5 last season as three Greater Cincinnati teams — Colerain, St. Xavier and Elder — were among the nation's top 25-rated teams, a first for a single city.
Mr. Crable said Thursday: “Yes, (the pamphlet) looks from a outsider trying to interpret the rules — and certainly from a standpoint of where Sycamore and Princeton are coming from” like a recruiting pamphlet.
“Unfortunately, the perception is different from the intention. That's why we stopped it,” he said, referring to the school's decision to halt distribution after an initial complaint was made to the school in November.
According to OHSAA bylaws, schools may use such pamphlets in “mass marketing,” but only if such literature also addresses other aspects of the school — such as academics — along with sports.
There is no mention of academics in the Moeller pamphlet.
“Where we made the mistake was ... was not including other aspects of the school,” Mr. Crable said.
He doesn't dispute GMC officials' contention that he arranged a Sept. 24 meeting for seventh- and eighth-grade boys at Good Shepherd Church to recruit for Moeller football, but denied that was improper. However, OHSAA bylaws prohibit sports recruiting beyond the sixth grade.
Mr. Crable also didn't dispute that he recruited 11-year-old boys at a Pee Wee football practice in Sharonville on Oct. 9. He said he distributed the football pamphlet in question at the practice.
Though Mr. Crable's recruitment at Pee Wee football is described by GMC officials as only a violation of the spirit of the bylaws, it elicited comment from other current and former Catholic coaches.
Terry Malone, head football coach of Badin High School in Hamilton for 44 years, and the ninth-winningest coach in history of American high school football, said any Catholic coach actively recruiting at Pee Wee football is “going over the line” because there may be public school youngsters on the team.
Former Moeller football coach Steve Klonne, replaced in 2000 by Mr. Crable after 23 years at Moeller, agreed, saying: “I did not aggressively go to Pee Wee games to recruit. Basically, I followed the rules.”
Mr. Crable said whether his recruiting methods are in violation “is a decision (the OHSAA) is going to have to make.”
If the OHSAA rules against Moeller, then “we'll have to deal with that as it comes down,” he said. “But we are trying to do things the right way.”
OHSAA officials have said if Moeller is found guilty of violating the sports organization's rules, it could face penalties ranging from fines up to $1,000, public censure, denial of participation in postseason play, suspension from the OHSAA or other penalties deemed appropriate by the OHSAA commissioner. OHSAA Commissioner Clair Muscaro said the investigation is expected to last about two weeks, but declined further comment.
GMC officials and coaches said they would not comment on their accusations during the OHSAA investigation. Dan Andriacco, spokesman for the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, said: “If they (OHSAA) find a violation, they will levy the penalty, which we will enforce. We will cooperate in their investigation, if they need us, but I don't think they will.”
Some things I noticed.
"Questioned wether they would be in nedd of financial assistance". Isn't that an athletic scholarship?
If the pamphlet that Crable was passing out was legal, why would they "stop" passing it out, regardless of what the, "perception" was?
"However, OHSAA bylaws prohibit sports recruiting beyond the sixth grade"????
Crable....recruited 11 year olds? Wow, what a tool.
But my favorite was when Klonne said, "Basically, I followed the rules". BASICALLY? -
Rocket08yawn
what decade
And what decade was your punishment from the OHSAA?
Why don't you show that article, asshole?
Because you're freakin hypocrite asshole, that's why -
sherm03
I've got a few comments on the article.
As genghis said, if Moeller has done something wrong, they should be punished. Period. There's no question about it. I do like that you overlooked the Badin coach saying he disapproves, and took the former Moeller coach's words and tried to twist them to make it sound bad. Basically (there's that word again), you're stretching on that one. As that article is written, it looks bad for Moeller, and they should be punished. But I'll hold back judgment until I see what the OHSAA finds.
I do have a question, though. I thought Catholic schools played by different rules. I thought they could recruit at will, and couldn't be touched because they were private. At least, that is what you and thinthick have said. Yet here we are, a Catholic school with possible recruiting violations. How is that possible? I thought the OHSAA turned their heads the other way, and that Catholic schools snuck around without the threat of being caught. So which is it?
Maybe it's just that few Catholic schools recruit (just like a few public schools recruit). And those that do it, get caught. And those that don't, are just accused of recruiting by whiny douche-nozzles whose team doesn't get it done on the field. This is a perfect example of why I say if you have the proof of it, take it to the OHSAA. There is proof in this accusation. The OHSAA has the pamphlet. If there was wrong doing, they have evidence to back it up. They don't just have little bitches on a message board crying foul.
So I will say it again. If you think any team is doing something wrong, approach your school's AD or administer and present them with the evidence to take to the OHSAA. Otherwise, shut the fuck up and quit bitching. -
skank
sherm03;997109 wrote:I've got a few comments on the article.
As genghis said, if Moeller has done something wrong, they should be punished. Period. There's no question about it. I do like that you overlooked the Badin coach saying he disapproves, and took the former Moeller coach's words and tried to twist them to make it sound bad. Basically (there's that word again), you're stretching on that one. As that article is written, it looks bad for Moeller, and they should be punished. But I'll hold back judgment until I see what the OHSAA finds.
I do have a question, though. I thought Catholic schools played by different rules. I thought they could recruit at will, and couldn't be touched because they were private. At least, that is what you and thinthick have said. Yet here we are, a Catholic school with possible recruiting violations. How is that possible? I thought the OHSAA turned their heads the other way, and that Catholic schools snuck around without the threat of being caught. So which is it?
Maybe it's just that few Catholic schools recruit (just like a few public schools recruit). And those that do it, get caught. And those that don't, are just accused of recruiting by whiny douche-nozzles whose team doesn't get it done on the field. This is a perfect example of why I say if you have the proof of it, take it to the OHSAA. There is proof in this accusation. The OHSAA has the pamphlet. If there was wrong doing, they have evidence to back it up. They don't just have little bitches on a message board crying foul.
So I will say it again. If you think any team is doing something wrong, approach your school's AD or administer and present them with the evidence to take to the OHSAA. Otherwise, shut the **** up and quit bitching.
You'll hold judgment? The article was from 2002, you know, another year Moeller/Parochial schools recruited. Damn man. -
sherm03
I didn't know that was from 2002. You posted it as if it was something that just happened.skank;997115 wrote:You'll hold judgment? The article was from 2002, you know, another year Moeller/Parochial schools recruited. Damn man. -
skank
landshark0731;996401 wrote:So basically what Skank and Thick are saying is????? It's ok for the West VirStuebenville Mountaineers and The Massillon Bungels to have kids attend there schools via open enrollment.However, The small city of Youngstown isn't. again if you want to be the best you have to beat the best. if you fall short hit the weight room and film room.You know there is a very small school just north of Massillon that plays primarily schools alot bigger than them. yet that very small school plays whoever, whenever. They have four state championships and yes they are a public school who doesn't whine about private schools. They play privates and sometimes win and sometimes lose. That little school is Mogadore. Winners train and losers complain. it is sad that our society is so soft that losing is no longer a form of inspiration to achieve better results. losing in this day and age is just that the other team cheated us.... such a shame of the example we are setting to our younger generation. i apologize for the name calling of big red and massillon as they both are respected football communities but so is mooney and ursuline. Good luck to Mooney on ther quest to number 8. sorry about my punctuation skank i know it won't meet your standards lol.
As far as Mogadore, yes, they are good, and they do play some schools a few divisions higher than them, but as far as your comment that said, "they don't whine about private schools", and "they play privates and sometimes win and sometimes lose". Let's focus on that comment for now, shall we? Since, after all,this is a Public/Parochial thread. In the last 10 years Mogadore has scheduled 4 parochial schools, going 1-3. The three losses? 41-12....23-0....and 7-52. Now, in the playoffs, they are 2-4, that's a total of 3-7 in the last ten years. Not too good for this "small school that will take on all comers". Once again, in the last ten years, this school you are pimping, has went totally crazy and has scheduled 4 whole games against parochial schools. -
skank
sherm03;997121 wrote:I didn't know that was from 2002. You posted it as if it was something that just happened.
No, I didn't post it any way, I simply posted it. You just assumed. Looks like if it WAS from "today" it didn't raise to many eyebrows. -
rmolin73
9 years ago? Man get out of here with that crap. Post something about the two schools you clowns are focusing on or shut the eff up. -
skank
rmolin73;997135 wrote:9 years ago? Man get out of here with that crap. Post something about the two schools you clowns are focusing on or shut the eff up.
What two schools am I focusing on? I'm focusing on the big picture. Oh, I see, it's ok for your boyfriend to bring up stuff from the '80s, but 9 years ago is off limits? Come on rmoron73, be fair now. -
Al Bundy
What were the findings of the two investigations?skank;997142 wrote:What two schools am I focusing on? I'm focusing on the big picture. Oh, I see, it's ok for your boyfriend to bring up stuff from the '80s, but 9 years ago is off limits? Come on rmoron73, be fair now. -
skank
What do YOU think?
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Al Bundy
You are more of an expert in this area than I am. When the facts of each case were investigated, what was proven to be true?skank;997158 wrote:What do YOU think? -
skank
Al Bundy;997169 wrote:You are more of an expert in this area than I am. When the facts of each case were investigated, what was proven to be true?
So you want to take the easy way out? Just have the answer handed to you? Wow, if you don't know the answer, look it up. -
rmolin73
There is no big picture clown since 2002 there have been both private and public schools reprimanded for recruitin violations. Like everyone have been saying there are schools that play by the rules and those that don't.
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skank
landshark0731;996401 wrote:So basically what Skank and Thick are saying is????? It's ok for the West VirStuebenville Mountaineers and The Massillon Bungels to have kids attend there schools via open enrollment.However, The small city of Youngstown isn't. again if you want to be the best you have to beat the best. if you fall short hit the weight room and film room.You know there is a very small school just north of Massillon that plays primarily schools alot bigger than them. yet that very small school plays whoever, whenever. They have four state championships and yes they are a public school who doesn't whine about private schools. They play privates and sometimes win and sometimes lose. That little school is Mogadore. Winners train and losers complain. it is sad that our society is so soft that losing is no longer a form of inspiration to achieve better results. losing in this day and age is just that the other team cheated us.... such a shame of the example we are setting to our younger generation. i apologize for the name calling of big red and massillon as they both are respected football communities but so is mooney and ursuline. Good luck to Mooney on ther quest to number 8. sorry about my punctuation skank i know it won't meet your standards lol.
Btw, if Mogadore plays "whoever whenever", why not schedule Hilliard Davidson, Cincinnati Colerain or Toledo Whitmer? -
Al Bundy
None of those schools played anyone lower than D2. Just because Massillon schedules D5 teams, and is afraid to schedule D1 teams, it doesn't mean that everyone else is.skank;997180 wrote:Btw, if Mogadore plays "whoever whenever", why not schedule Hilliard Davidson, Cincinnati Colerain or Toledo Whitmer? -
skank
Al Bundy;997201 wrote:None of those schools played anyone lower than D2. Just because Massillon schedules D5 teams, and is afraid to schedule D1 teams, it doesn't mean that everyone else is.
I didn't ask if they played genius, I asked why they don't schedule HD, Colerain Or Whitmer? Btw, find the answer to your question yet? -
Al Bundy
Retard, I just told you that HD, Colerain, and Whitmer don't schedule D5 teams. Just because Massillon dropped Iggy to pick up a D5 school, it doesn't mean that all other D1 schools feel the need to schedule D5 teams. Just because Massillon is terrified to compete, it doesn't mean that everyone is afraid to compete.skank;997207 wrote:I didn't ask if they played genius, I asked why they don't schedule HD, Colerain Or Whitmer? Btw, find the answer to your question yet? -
rmolin73
The question is why doesn't Massillon?
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Al Bundyhttp://massillonproud.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?category=1&id=1064531777
Skunk, there is a link to Massillon cheating. Even their own website admits the Tigers were very fortunate that OHSAA did not levy a more serious penalty.
Where is the link to the finding against Moeller? I'm sure that it must exist because you would never make up anything :rolleyes: -
sherm03
Hey Al...since skank's a dick, here's the info. From what I found, they were cited for recruiting...fined $1,000 and put on probation.Al Bundy;997228 wrote:http://massillonproud.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?category=1&id=1064531777
Skunk, there is a link to Massillon cheating. Even their own website admits the Tigers were very fortunate that OHSAA did not levy a more serious penalty.
Where is the link to the finding against Moeller? I'm sure that it must exist because you would never make up anything :rolleyes:
http://cincinnati.com/preps/2002/02/05/pre_moeller_cited_for.html
Was that so hard skank? No need to be a dick at all times. -
Dean Wormer
Sorry sherm, I can't believe that. Skanky and thicky have said repeatedly that the parochial schools are never sanctioned. The OHSAA simply allows them to do whatever they want.sherm03;997244 wrote:Hey Al...since skank's a ****, here's the info. From what I found, they were cited for recruiting...fined $1,000 and put on probation.
http://cincinnati.com/preps/2002/02/05/pre_moeller_cited_for.html
Was that so hard skank? No need to be a **** at all times.