Cavs @ Jazz
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hoops23
The NBA is a players league.. There are only a few coaches who even fucking matter.. One is currently with the Lakers, another is in Utah (though he's not won any fucking titles, has he???), Greg Popovic, and Pat Riley...
Please, this team, if they're good enough, will win a title under Mike Brown. I hate when fans piss and moan because we're not as good as "you think we could be"... Some people just always have ALL the answers.. Probably the same people who wanted the Indians to fire Grover or Manuel too... :huh:
If coaching truly mattered moreso than talent, Boston wouldn't have won a title under Doc Rivers.
Mike Brown is a good enough coach to do what he needs to do defensively.. If you don't think that matters, check us out under former coaches... Or, check out teams under OFFENSIVE coaches and see how many titles they've won!
Also, if some of you don't think we can win a title under Mike Brown, then I don't want to see ANY of you who claim that, to be claiming the Cavs as Eastern Conference champs or as title contenders.. Obviously, since Mike Brown is our coach, and we can't do any worse with any other head coach, we might as well claim this season a failure already!! -
ytownfootball
Zactly!h2thaizzo wrote:
Right! Instead, we wait until we have lost the lead, and ALL momentum to call the timeout.
1. When its crunch time, tell your superstar to take the free throws, not the ball out.
2. Use timeouts to stop rhythm runs, you aren't Phil Jackson, he actually runs his own offense, so quit trying to be him.
3. When your team has opened up a double digit lead, quit telling them to MAINTAIN it, tell them to push the ball up the floor and keep outscoring the opponent. This dribble dribble 3...2...1... throw up a shitty shot and waste the entire 24 second clock crap isn't gonna fly. It hasn't worked for us in the past, and it's not going to work for us now.
What Footwedge doesn't understand (and I mean no disrespect, he is a passionate fan) is that as a fan that wants a championship, these little, simple things are what prevents you from getting one. If they do happen to get there, we'll all thank Brown for the D but blame him for all this little shit that every other coach, who would give their left nut to have LBJ on the team, WOULD DO WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT, AS SECOND NATURE!!! That's what pisses me off about Brown. He's got the easiest friggin' job in the NBA and gets too much credit for wearing a tie that LeBron bought for him. -
hoops23
Oh please, that bull shit happens to every team during an 82 game season.. It's easy to nit pick 4 or 5 games instead of looking at the big picture.
Hell, Phil Jackson and Roy Williams hardly EVER call timeouts.. -
h2thaizzoI hate when fans piss and moan at other fans for posting on a forum about how insane it is that our coach allows our team to lose the same way time after time. I especially am on the "fuck you Mike Brown" train right now after he said after the first quarter "LeBron makes my job easy, he allows me to do less coaching and more watching", essentially. Maybe you should do a little more coaching so we can do a little less losing in these close games. You obviously don't mind the guy, some of us actually see the truth, that he's nothing special, and his "coaching" leaves us quite vulnerable in some occasions, like the ECF last year, like the game last night. You aren't going to change my view, so quit trying.
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h2thaizzo
Right, thats what everyone said last season when the SAME problems we had through the 82 game regular season came back to bite us come the ECF. But keep telling yourself that these problems only occur in 4-5 games.LTrain23 wrote: Oh please, that bull shit happens to every team during an 82 game season.. It's easy to nit pick 4 or 5 games instead of looking at the big picture.
Hell, Phil Jackson and Roy Williams hardly EVER call timeouts.. -
ytownfootball
Ah yes they may be small in number, but when 1 or two of them happen in the playoffs when the Cavs can't afford it is that acceptable?LTrain23 wrote: Oh please, that bull shit happens to every team during an 82 game season.. It's easy to nit pick 4 or 5 games instead of looking at the big picture.
Hell, Phil Jackson and Roy Williams hardly EVER call timeouts.. -
hoops23
People need to let that Orlando series go. If Phil Jackson was our head coach we wouldn't have won that series...
Orlando was the better team LAST year, they had waaay too many mismatches. No way with our roster could we compete with Hedo, Rashard, and Dwight..
Not to mention Mo Williams laying an egg (albeit his first true postseason, so I can forgive him)... It's easy to find a scapegoat and place blame, but in fact, the Cavs weren't equipped to beat Orlando or LA last season..
This season is a bit different, as our roster went through a pretty nice change... -
hoops23
Well, obviously they aren't appearing too often, as we're 30-11 and have the 2nd best record in the NBA.h2thaizzo wrote:
Right, thats what everyone said last season when the SAME problems we had through the 82 game regular season came back to bite us come the ECF. But keep telling yourself that these problems only occur in 4-5 games.LTrain23 wrote: Oh please, that bull shit happens to every team during an 82 game season.. It's easy to nit pick 4 or 5 games instead of looking at the big picture.
Hell, Phil Jackson and Roy Williams hardly EVER call timeouts..
It's easy to give up leads when the other team is better. Orlando just got destroyed in Portland by a team missing Roy, Oden, and several others.. Is Stan all of a sudden a terrible coach now too? -
ytownfootball
Oh I let the Orlando series go, and we did beef up the roster to minimize the mismatches as best we could for a repeat series. Thus all the more reason to be on Brown to do the little shit more effectively and not blow what would appear to be a legit shot.
All I'm asking for is, simple coaching 101 bullshit that every doofus that watches the NBA knows. Is it too much to ask for? Should I be content to watch 20 pt leads whither to nothing? It happens too frequently to be just a brain fart, it's a trend. Fuck that. -
h2thaizzo2008-2009 Cavs:
27-15 (.640) in games when scoring less than 100 points.
38-2 (.950) in games when scoring more than 100 points.
1-2 against Orlando in ECF when scoring less than 100 points.
2009-2010 Cavs:
7-10 (.411) games less than 100 points
23-1 (.958) games more than 100 points.
This isn't a cause for alarm to anyone else? The fact that, for being a "defensive team with a defensive minded coach" we win an average of only 56% of our games that are low scoring doesn't worry anyone else at this point? -
Footwedge
Barkley has been saying this for at least the past 3 years and he said it again at halftime of last night's game. They run, they play better. They run, they put up more points. Get LeBron running(with or without the ball) and it attracts defenders to him leads to open shots for Mo, Delonte, Parker, etc. Another thing he really harps on that they should get away from is when they rely on LeBron taking over the ball for the entire 24 seconds, they stand around and there is no movement. Pretty obvious at some points.h2thaizzo wrote:
Please, take notice in the fact that we are 1-4 in these 5 point contests when we are held to less than 100 points. You figure a coach that is reigning Coach of the Year would take notice to things like this, but of course not. its not a coincidence, its a damn fact. When we put up 100+, we are damn difficult to beat. When we score less than 100, it's about a coin flip as to who wins. I'd definitely be telling my team to score as many baskets as possible, and quit preaching defense when you can't even win a majority of your so called defensive played games.sportswizuhrd wrote:
11-5..h2thaizzo wrote: What was the Cav record last year in 5 point games? Also, the Ccavalier comeback 4th quarter wins last year far outnumbered the blown games.
You are another Cleveland fan that needs to turn in your fancard.
Mike Brown's team is 30 and 11...Instead of bitchin so much....you should be thankful we have a great pro team to cheer for.
This year...5-5.
L-Chicago 86-85
W-Utah 107-103
L-@ Memphis 111-109
W-Portland 109-104
W-Milwaukee 85-82
W-Atlanta 106-101
L-Charlotte 91-88
L-@ Denver 99-97
W-@ Golden State 117-114
L-@ Utah 97-96
LeBron is averaging 33.3 points with 8.3 boards and 7.2 assists in those 10 games(33.6 pts/8.4 boards/6.2 assists in the 5 losses..shooting 52.1% from the field compared to 54.1 in the wins).
Team...Win by 5- outscoring opp 524-504
Lose by 5-outscored by 484-475
EDIT: h2thaizzo...No idea why it says you made that initial post, I know it was footwedge, didnt change anything up.
[/quote]
It was probably because I cut out the previous posts and just cropped that one when I quoted earlier. I guess Barkley is a dumbass like me and you then huh?
[/quote]
Charles Barkley said that the Cavs would not even make the playoffs in the post game interview after the opening loss against Boston.
So yes, you and Barkley are in fact dumbasses.
I heard the same shit last year...the Cavs can't beat so and so or so and so.
The fact is...the Cavs were a better team than Orlando LAST YEAR. and it had absolutely nothing to do with match ups. Those that buy into the bullshit are fools.
Las Vegas set the odds on that series...Cleveland 6 to 1 favorites.
And had they played another 7 game set....they would have remained at least a 5 to 1 favorite. Fact.
Upsets happen in sports...and last year the Magic uncharacteristically shot lights out from beyond the arc. The odds caught up to them in the LA Series.
Personally, I love this team....as much as I did last year's team. Hopefully, the basketball gods will shine on the Cavs this time around.
To those that want to blame Brown for his 30 and 11 record...have at it...knock yourself out.
They are ranked #1 in the NBA power rankings right now.
Pretty good for having such a shitty coach. -
Footwedge
We are talking about one of the 3 top teams in the NBA. I seriously doubt that people in Boston or LA bitch about their coach. And if they do, then they should be ashamed of themselves.september63 wrote:Footwedge wrote: "Brown, who has taken Cleveland to the postseason in each of his four seasons, was honored Monday as the league's top coach after leading the Cavaliers to 66 wins, a Central Division title and the No. 1 overall playoff seed following the greatest regular season in club history."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4083787
Only in Cleveland will you find "fans" that bitch about their record setting coach. Pretty disgusting indeed.
I agree. Although it probably isnt only in Cleveland. -
h2thaizzoLtrain seems to think otherwise. He said that Orlando was the better team, and there was no way we win that series against them. So I guess he is now a dumbass too, even though he seems to not mind Brown. You fail to comprehend the issue at hand, so let me explain again. When your team has an overall record of 66-16 (.804), yet only manages to win 65% of their games when held to less than 100 points, you have issues. DO you know why? Because chances are when you face teams in the playoffs, hopefully in the finals this year, they are probably a pretty solid defensive team. Now, how can you claim to be a defensive coach yet your teams winning % drastically dips in games where defense is so crucial? Explain that to me, O' Holy one. 30-11 is perfectly fine, however, 5-5 in games decided by 5 points or less isn't. 7-10 in games when held to less than 100 points isn't fine either. His defensive coaching abilities should be leading us to more wins in these games than we are getting, and yes, it's the same issue that this team faced last season. The proof is in the pudding.
Regardless of the numerous facts I've posted showing my logic, weren't you supposed to be leaving footwedge? -
h2thaizzo
Why would they? Their coaches actually led their teams to NBA championships. They didn't allow their team to blow a 20+ point lead at home and lose home court advantage right off the bat in the ECF.Footwedge wrote:
We are talking about one of the 3 top teams in the NBA. I seriously doubt that people in Boston or LA bitch about their coach. And if they do, then they should be ashamed of themselves.september63 wrote:Footwedge wrote: "Brown, who has taken Cleveland to the postseason in each of his four seasons, was honored Monday as the league's top coach after leading the Cavaliers to 66 wins, a Central Division title and the No. 1 overall playoff seed following the greatest regular season in club history."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4083787
Only in Cleveland will you find "fans" that bitch about their record setting coach. Pretty disgusting indeed.
I agree. Although it probably isnt only in Cleveland. -
Midstate01
The cavs lost to the jazz because they decided to play no defense in the second half. Mike brown puts them in good situations and in spots they can all succeed. In the end though, the players are the reason for the outcomes of games. So in the end, they played no d and didn't make free throws. It's their own fault they lost.
I'm very happy with how this season is going! They're fun to watch and at times have played championship style ball. Moon will come back and play great d. Powe will get healthy and do all the little things, the dirty work. Boobie will get his chance again and take full advantage of it.
I assume there will probably be a trade too, so in ferry we trust!
Go cavs! -
Skyhook79
"The cavs lost to the jazz because they decided to play no defense in the second half."
Actually it was just the 4th quarter. The Jazz scored 42 pts in the 4th and 55 pts the other 3 qtrs combined. -
Pick6
9 pages over 1 game?..a lot of laker fans talking shit..hmm
must still be curled up in a ball after the ass whoopin they took on christmas -
Skyhook79
31-9 sitting at the top of the NBA, playing without many players so far, I don't think so.Pick6 wrote: 9 pages over 1 game?..a lot of laker fans talking shit..hmm
must still be curled up in a ball after the ass whoopin they took on christmas
Besides Laker Fans don't get all giddy and upset at regular season losses or wins and call for peoples heads like Cavs fans. Laker Fans know that the real season starts with the Post season and this is just a dress rehearsal. -
cview
It was probably because I cut out the previous posts and just cropped that one when I quoted earlier. I guess Barkley is a dumbass like me and you then huh?Footwedge wrote:
Barkley has been saying this for at least the past 3 years and he said it again at halftime of last night's game. They run, they play better. They run, they put up more points. Get LeBron running(with or without the ball) and it attracts defenders to him leads to open shots for Mo, Delonte, Parker, etc. Another thing he really harps on that they should get away from is when they rely on LeBron taking over the ball for the entire 24 seconds, they stand around and there is no movement. Pretty obvious at some points.h2thaizzo wrote:
Please, take notice in the fact that we are 1-4 in these 5 point contests when we are held to less than 100 points. You figure a coach that is reigning Coach of the Year would take notice to things like this, but of course not. its not a coincidence, its a damn fact. When we put up 100+, we are damn difficult to beat. When we score less than 100, it's about a coin flip as to who wins. I'd definitely be telling my team to score as many baskets as possible, and quit preaching defense when you can't even win a majority of your so called defensive played games.sportswizuhrd wrote:
11-5..h2thaizzo wrote: What was the Cav record last year in 5 point games? Also, the Ccavalier comeback 4th quarter wins last year far outnumbered the blown games.
You are another Cleveland fan that needs to turn in your fancard.
Mike Brown's team is 30 and 11...Instead of bitchin so much....you should be thankful we have a great pro team to cheer for.
This year...5-5.
L-Chicago 86-85
W-Utah 107-103
L-@ Memphis 111-109
W-Portland 109-104
W-Milwaukee 85-82
W-Atlanta 106-101
L-Charlotte 91-88
L-@ Denver 99-97
W-@ Golden State 117-114
L-@ Utah 97-96
LeBron is averaging 33.3 points with 8.3 boards and 7.2 assists in those 10 games(33.6 pts/8.4 boards/6.2 assists in the 5 losses..shooting 52.1% from the field compared to 54.1 in the wins).
Team...Win by 5- outscoring opp 524-504
Lose by 5-outscored by 484-475
EDIT: h2thaizzo...No idea why it says you made that initial post, I know it was footwedge, didnt change anything up.
[/quote]
Charles Barkley said that the Cavs would not even make the playoffs in the post game interview after the opening loss against Boston.
So yes, you and Barkley are in fact dumbasses.
I heard the same shit last year...the Cavs can't beat so and so or so and so.
The fact is...the Cavs were a better team than Orlando LAST YEAR. and it had absolutely nothing to do with match ups. Those that buy into the bullshit are fools.
Las Vegas set the odds on that series...Cleveland 6 to 1 favorites.
And had they played another 7 game set....they would have remained at least a 5 to 1 favorite. Fact.
Upsets happen in sports...and last year the Magic uncharacteristically shot lights out from beyond the arc. The odds caught up to them in the LA Series.
Personally, I love this team....as much as I did last year's team. Hopefully, the basketball gods will shine on the Cavs this time around.
To those that want to blame Brown for his 30 and 11 record...have at it...knock yourself out.
They are ranked #1 in the NBA power rankings right now.
Pretty good for having such a shitty coach.
[/quote]
How the fuck can the better team lose a SEVEN game series? There's absolutely no logic behind that. I could see if it was the NFL or college basketball where it's one and out. But when one team gets the shit beat out of them for two consecutive weeks I have a hard time believing they were the 'better' team. It's not like Orlando just went cold in the Finals. The Cavs had nobody to combat Dwight Howard with and the Cavs were also closing out on Orlando's shooters with 6'3" guys as opposed to Lamar Odom or Trevor Ariza. -
Footwedge
I'm not leaving. Deal with it...or put me on mute. You are nothing but a cleveland crybaby, period. Just like last year...I had to put up with douche bag Shawn1515 bitch and moan after every single game...while the team compiled a 66 win season.h2thaizzo wrote: Ltrain seems to think otherwise. He said that Orlando was the better team, and there was no way we win that series against them. So I guess he is now a dumbass too, even though he seems to not mind Brown. You fail to comprehend the issue at hand, so let me explain again. When your team has an overall record of 66-16 (.804), yet only manages to win 65% of their games when held to less than 100 points, you have issues. DO you know why? Because chances are when you face teams in the playoffs, hopefully in the finals this year, they are probably a pretty solid defensive team. Now, how can you claim to be a defensive coach yet your teams winning % drastically dips in games where defense is so crucial? Explain that to me, O' Holy one. 30-11 is perfectly fine, however, 5-5 in games decided by 5 points or less isn't. 7-10 in games when held to less than 100 points isn't fine either. His defensive coaching abilities should be leading us to more wins in these games than we are getting, and yes, it's the same issue that this team faced last season. The proof is in the pudding.
Regardless of the numerous facts I've posted showing my logic, weren't you supposed to be leaving footwedge?
And I don't care what LTrain says. He's entitled to his opinion...most of which I happen to agree with.
But anyone that understands sports knows that last years Orlando upset of the Cavs was a fluke..a fraud if you will.
Las Vegas sets the odds. They know their shit. The Cavs were established as a whopping 6-1 favorite to win that series.
Had they played a new series right afterward, the Cavs would still have been a 6 to 1 favororite.
The chances that Orlando beating us was the same odds as hitting an outside straight in poker.... 6 to 1. It just so happened that they hit it.
Why don't you run over to the Marvin Lewis Coach of the Year thread and tell the Cincy fans that their coach sucks and should be fired.
And finally....you are entitled to your opinion....and when you state it here, there are going to be others that offer a dissenting view.
If I were you, I would step back from your computer for a few moments and reflect upon how stupid your argument is.
Sports organizations do not make a habit of firing Coaches of the Yeare half way through the following season, especially when they have the #1 record in their conference, and are ranked number 1 in the overall power ratings.
Last night, Orlando got shitstomped by a Royless Portland team. I seriously doubt that there are many Magic fans crying for their coach to be fired. -
Footwedge
I'll put you in the column as being ignorant as well. In 1990, the reds were 4 to 1 underdogs against the A's...and won 4 straight. Upsets happen in sports. whether it's a one game series or a 7 game series. if you don't understand that simple concept, then I doubt that you ever played sports.How the fuck can the better team lose a SEVEN game series? There's absolutely no logic behind that. I could see if it was the NFL or college basketball where it's one and out. But when one team gets the shit beat out of them for two consecutive weeks I have a hard time believing they were the 'better' team. It's not like Orlando just went cold in the Finals. The Cavs had nobody to combat Dwight Howard with and the Cavs were also closing out on Orlando's shooters with 6'3" guys as opposed to Lamar Odom or Trevor Ariza.
If the Reds played another 7 game series right after winning that Series, then the reds would still have been 4 to 1 underdogs. The Reds wwere not the better team. But for that series, they played better and won.
Same thing with the Magic. They were a mediocre team in shooting behind the arc all season. Against the Cavs, they hit an abnormal 50% of their shots out there, and pulled a huge upset over the better team. It's really that simple.
Now couple that with the fact that our second All Star, Mo Williams went into a horrendous shooting slump, and voila!!...the huge underdog with an inferior team won.
Also...keep in mind...there were 3 games that ended with shots at the buzzer. the Magic were fortunate to win 2 out of those 3. Had DeLonte West not inadvertently knocked the ball out of bounds in game 4, the Cavs win that series and very likely would have won the championship last year. There would not be any of this horse shit about how the Cavs "didn't match up" against them.
Let me give you yet another example. This year, the Hawks are 3-0 against Boston so far...with 2 of those wins being double digit victories in Boston. Does that mean the Celtics don't "match up" with Atlanta? It's a bullshit argument...and if they started a 7 game series tomorrow, Boston would be heavily favored...because Boston is the better team. -
wes_mantooth
I am not in agreement that the Cavs need to get rid of Brown, I just don't think he is anything special. I think there are very few difference making coaches in the NBA...Sloan, Popavich, and Jackson. I do agree with footwedge in that upsets happen even in a 7 game series......the best team doesn't always win. Orlando just shot an unbelievable percentage and then they went cold against the Lakers.....it happen. -
SQ_Crazies
Kind of like the Cavs went cold against the Magic.wes_mantooth wrote: I am not in agreement that the Cavs need to get rid of Brown, I just don't think he is anything special. I think there are very few difference making coaches in the NBA...Sloan, Popavich, and Jackson. I do agree with footwedge in that upsets happen even in a 7 game series......the best team doesn't always win. Orlando just shot an unbelievable percentage and then they went cold against the Lakers.....it happen.
If anyone thinks that the best team always wins in a 7-game series and there are never upsets then how do you explain the Warriors/Mavs series from a few years ago? The better team didn't win and it was an upset. Over the course of an 82 game season (much bigger sample size than a 7 game series) teams separate themselves. The reason the Warriors were able to beat the Mavs in that series is the same reason the Cavs lost to the Magic--they had match up issues, doesn't mean the better team won. They just executed better in that series.
It doesn't really matter who the better team was anyways, only one moves on and that's all that matters--there is no point in arguing this, but Cavs/Magic was most certainly an upset. -
devil1197Oh I think the better team was the Cavs by far and upsets do happen.
But you pointed out a couple things. The Magic executed better and they had match up issues which Van Gundy used to his advantage perfectly leaving Brown scrambling to figure out a way to stop it. He had no clue what to do and you would think a top defensive minded coach would have been prepared for this after playing not so good against the Magic in the regular season.
But no he wasn't prepared and why should he after his team ran through 8-0 against two crappy teams (remember the Hawks were banged up). Brown had no game plan to attack and defend the Magic. -
JakeGiantwes_mantooth wrote: I am not in agreement that the Cavs need to get rid of Brown, I just don't think he is anything special. I think there are very few difference making coaches in the NBA...Sloan, Popavich, and Jackson. I do agree with footwedge in that upsets happen even in a 7 game series......the best team doesn't always win. Orlando just shot an unbelievable percentage and then they went cold against the Lakers.....it happen.
1) Orlando Series wasn't an upset.
2) Cleveland's D was great...against less-than-stellar competition. Against the better teams, they cracked.
3) Orlando went "cold" because the Lakers played better D.