2014-2015 NBA Off Season, Draft, Free Agency
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Laley23
It would, I was asking for PPS simply to see how many 3pt shooters were more effective in scoring the basketball despite a lower FG%.lhslep134;1632766 wrote:Fair enough. BTW I know you asked for points per shot, but would offensive rating (points produced per 100 possessions) be a better rating? that would then take into account other (in)efficiencies on offense -
lhslep134
Quoting myself to repeat the point that Rob fails to see.lhslep134;1632714 wrote: you have no regard for the difference between a field goal being worth 3 points and being worth 2 points. That, sir, is idiotic and shows a lack of knowledge, logic, and understanding. -
sleeper
Not really. Pretty easy to put up 19 ppg when you flop the whole game and you have the best player on the planet taking all the attention away from you.robj55;1632765 wrote:Nice list LOL 19 ppg on 55% form the field hurts your argument doesn't it? Your list was the most laughable thing on here. You named me 15 guys who were better, I'm still waiting on the other 10.
Wade is only going to get worse as he gets older and that's why Lebron isn't willing to sign long term deals with the Heat because he knows this. Your arguments are counter intuitive to reality and that is why you are being backed into a corner. Reality is reality, and denying reality makes you look like an idiot. -
robj55
That's not the same argument and you know it lol Those 32 threes took away from his fg% at the end of the day right? I agree with your second part though, but you aren't seeing my point. I'm not going to discredit Wade because he is able to be effective and get the shots he wants and make the, at a ridiculous level just because he doesn't shoot a lot of threes.Laley23;1632769 wrote:Im not criticizing him for not taking 3s...and less than .5 a game is essentially 0 lol. Don't go around telling people someone got 32 assists last year, so it's not like he never passed it...
What I'm arguing is that YOU are devaluing a 3 pt shooter because he doesn't have as good of a FG%...but in reality, he doesn't need to in order to be more effective and better. -
robj55
LOL to the whole first part. Wade is largely an isolation player, nice try though. Second part has nothing to do with it, we are talking about last year, not moving forward.sleeper;1632773 wrote:Not really. Pretty easy to put up 19 ppg when you flop the whole game and you have the best player on the planet taking all the attention away from you.
Wade is only going to get worse as he gets older and that's why Lebron isn't willing to sign long term deals with the Heat because he knows this. Your arguments are counter intuitive to reality and that is why you are being backed into a corner. Reality is reality, and denying reality makes you look like an idiot. -
robj55
Refer to my post with Laley.lhslep134;1632772 wrote:Quoting myself to repeat the point that Rob fails to see. -
sleeper
Its not different. If Wade is a top 25 player right now, why would you want another player going forward? LOLrobj55;1632767 wrote:If we are talking about guys I would rather have going forward that is a different argument entirely.
Your logic is poor at best. -
sleeper
It was fun watching this isolation player get his ass handed to him by a bunch of 40 year old men.robj55;1632776 wrote:LOL to the whole first part. Wade is largely an isolation player, nice try though. Second part has nothing to do with it, we are talking about last year, not moving forward. -
lhslep134
But not from his TS% which IS THE WHOLE F*CKING POINT OF THE STATrobj55;1632774 wrote: Those 32 threes took away from his fg% at the end of the day right?. -
sleeper
Take Lebron off the Heat and they won't even make the playoffs next year with top 151 player Wade and 3-point chucker Bosh. I'd love to see no-knees Wade accomplish anything without being carried by the best player on the planet.
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robj55
Look at those names in front of them, makes the list a joke. It's easier to be more efficient when you have way less of a role, but I guess you already knew that right? Also efficiency doesn't translate to being better, you say he was the 27th more efficient guard last year based on your stats, but how many of those guys were better than him?lhslep134;1632770 wrote:So if you want to take into account all offensive efficiency, Dwayne finished, among guards with > 1700 minutes played, 27th out of 50 in offensive rating.
Rob, let me simplify it: offensively, Wade was the 27th most efficient guard last year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=off_rtg&c1comp=gt&c1val=105&c2stat=mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=1700&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws -
Rotinaj
You forgot to add biggest cherry picker in the history of organized basketball.robj55;1632776 wrote:LOL to the whole first part. Wade is largely an isolation player, nice try though. Second part has nothing to do with it, we are talking about last year, not moving forward. -
robj55
He could be like many of the guys you listed and just shoot it 25 times a game like Harder, shoot 44% from the field and average a shit ton of points and would be considered better according to you and everyone else LOLsleeper;1632781 wrote:Take Lebron off the Heat and they won't even make the playoffs next year with top 151 player Wade and 3-point chucker Bosh. I'd love to see no-knees Wade accomplish anything without being carried by the best player on the planet. -
robj55
CorrectRotinaj;1632783 wrote:You forgot to add biggest cherry picker in the history of organized basketball. -
robj55
Yes, I get that. But you are penalizing for getting HIS SHOTS and MAKING THEM. Point of the game is the get the best shots available each time down.lhslep134;1632780 wrote:But not from his TS% which IS THE WHOLE F*CKING POINT OF THE STAT -
lhslep134
You're right, I should only include players with a higher WS because anyone with a lower one is probably a role player (which, in and of itself, should say something).robj55;1632782 wrote:Look at those names in front of them, makes the list a joke. It's easier to be more efficient when you have way less of a role, but I guess you already knew that right?
Here's the new link. Wade is 24th out of 28. Big freaking difference there chief.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=off_rtg&c1comp=gt&c1val=105&c2stat=mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=1700&c3stat=ws&c3comp=gt&c3val=5.2&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws -
robj55
Wrong. based on the most recent season he is. Wrong again.sleeper;1632778 wrote:Its not different. If Wade is a top 25 player right now, why would you want another player going forward? LOL
Your logic is poor at best. -
lhslep134
Dude you're STILL CLUELESS as to the whole point of the stat. It's not to penalize anyone, it's to reward the 50% increase in value and relative difficulty of the 3 point shot.robj55;1632786 wrote:Yes, I get that. But you are penalizing for getting HIS SHOTS and MAKING THEM. Point of the game is the get the best shots available each time down.
Wade isn't so far down because he was penalized, he's so far down because other players who shoot 3's become more valuable as their percentage of made 3's increases, even if Wade's 2 pt% is higher. -
Laley23
Or are we penalizing him for not being as complete a shooter as others???
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robj55
George Hill is 11th, list is null and void. This list isn't best guards.lhslep134;1632787 wrote:You're right, I should only include players with a higher WS because anyone with a lower one is probably a role player (which, in and of itself, should say something).
Here's the new link. Wade is 24th out of 28. Big freaking difference there chief.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=off_rtg&c1comp=gt&c1val=105&c2stat=mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=1700&c3stat=ws&c3comp=gt&c3val=5.2&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws -
robj55
You completely glossed over the second point, as normal picking and choosing. I get that 3's are worth more than 2's, everyone understands that. Not rocket science.lhslep134;1632789 wrote:Dude you're STILL CLUELESS as to the whole point of the stat. It's not to penalize anyone, it's to reward the 50% increase in value and relative difficulty of the 3 point shot.
Wade isn't so far down because he was penalized, he's so far down because other players who shoot 3's become more valuable as their percentage of made 3's increases, even if Wade's 2 pt% is higher. -
robj55
He shoots and makes his shots, all that matters. Should Shaq be discounted because he couldn't make a face up jumper?Laley23;1632790 wrote:Or are we penalizing him for not being as complete a shooter as others??? -
sleeper
Based on his most recent season he is a top 25 player but next year he is not a top 25 player. What happened from last year to the next year to no longer make him a top 25 player? I would love to hear your logical progression.robj55;1632788 wrote:Wrong. based on the most recent season he is. Wrong again. -
Laley23
I tried to explain that.lhslep134;1632789 wrote:Dude you're STILL CLUELESS as to the whole point of the stat. It's not to penalize anyone, it's to reward the 50% increase in value and relative difficulty of the 3 point shot.
Wade isn't so far down because he was penalized, he's so far down because other players who shoot 3's become more valuable as their percentage of made 3's increases, even if Wade's 2 pt% is higher.
Ill try again.
If someone shoots 38% from 3...they will be equal to Dwyane Wade from 2 (yes Rob, I took out the 3s he took and only counted the 2s) 57% in terms of points scored if they take the same amount of shots. Ill take the guy who shoots 38% from 3 and can space the floor a lot better.
This is all before we take into consideration that those players shoot better from 2 than Wade from 3, in the reverse portion of it. -
robj55
That is to be determined, if he isn't I will admit as much. We have no idea how he is going to respond over the summer and going into next year. He has been left for dead before remember?sleeper;1632795 wrote:Based on his most recent season he is a top 25 player but next year he is not a top 25 player. What happened from last year to the next year to no longer make him a top 25 player? I would love to hear your logical progression.