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2013 Cleveland Browns Thread: RIP Chud

  • like_that
    2013 Midseason Pro Bowl draft

    PFF's writers draft two competing NFL Pro Bowl rosters

    Updated: October 29, 2013, 12:45 PM ET
    By Steve Palazzolo and Khaled Elsayed | Pro Football Focus
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    Getty ImagesDez Bryant and LeSean McCoy are both worthy of being Pro Bowlers.
    There's a new Pro Bowl in town. The "unconferenced" format means that Jerry Rice and Deion Sanders will have their pick of players who are voted through to the Hawaii-based all-star game, with the possibility of teammates going head-to-head and much more.

    So we decided to do something similar here at Pro Football Focus. Steve Palazzolo and I are going head-to-head picking our own Pro Bowl squads as we scrutinize the standout performers through Week 8. We've looked at the official Pro Bowl ballots, and based on who we're allowed to pick and what we value personally, have drafted our own set of starters -- Palazzolo's Prime Timers and Elsayed's Elites.

    Below we break down our most contentious picks, avoiding the obvious selections such as Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers, which are pretty self-explanatory. On the right side, you can view the entire roster for each squad, along with each player's grades.

    Palazzolo's Prime Timers Breakdown

    Steve's Pro Bowl roster

    PosPlayerPick2013 Grade
    QBPeyton Manning(1)+21.8
    RBDarren Sproles(24)+9.3
    WRCalvin Johnson(4)+14.9
    WRAntonio Brown(13)+13.1
    FBAnthony Sherman(44)+11.0
    TEJordan Cameron(21)+8.6
    OTNate Solder(33)+20.5
    OTZach Strief(40)+13.3
    OGEvan Mathis(25)+25.1
    OGLouis Vasquez(36)+13.7
    OCAlex Mack(41)+9.8
    DERobert Quinn(5)+32.1
    DECameron Jordan(9)+18.8
    DTJason Hatcher(12)+20.9
    DTNdamukong Suh(17)+16.3
    ILBSean Lee(20)+9.0
    OLBElvis Dumervil(37)+15.4
    OLBLavonte David(29)+11.8
    CBDarrelle Revis(8)+13.7
    CBVontae Davis(28)+8.8
    SSEric Berry(16)+9.2
    FSDevin McCourty(32)+16.2
    KNick Folk(45)+11.6
    RDexter McCluster(49)+4.4
    PShane Lechler(48)+17.7
    STMarcus Easley(52)+2.5
    Darren Sproles, RB, Saints
    Pick No. 24 | 2013 Grade: +9.3

    While he's not your traditional running back, Sproles brings great versatility to the passing game. He leads all running backs with a plus-10.1 receiving grade and he also leads with 2.69 yards per route run. A real matchup problem.

    Jordan Cameron, TE, Browns
    Pick No. 21 | 2013 Grade: +8.6

    Though he's already becoming well-known in fantasy football circles, it's Cameron's all-around game that has earned him the No. 3 overall tight end spot at plus-8.6. He's been an efficient chain-mover for the Cleveland offense, catching a league-high 80 percent of his targets while providing the occasional deep threat, as his four catches of 20 yards or more will attest.

    Nate Solder, OT, Patriots
    Pick No. 33 | 2013 Grade: +20.5

    Solder has quietly risen to the top of PFF's offensive tackle rankings through a nice mix of both pass- and run-blocking. He's given up only 15 pressures on 345 pass block attempts for a pass blocking efficiency of 96.2 that ranks ninth in the league, but his run blocking (third highest grade of tackles) is what has really set him apart.

    Robert Quinn, DE, Rams
    Pick No. 5 | 2013 Grade: +32.1

    While last year may have been Quinn's breakout season because of his 11 sacks, he's gotten much more consistent pressure here in 2013 on his way to leading all 4-3 defensive ends with a plus-32.1 overall grade.

    Jason Hatcher, DT, Cowboys
    Pick No. 12 | 2013 Grade: +20.9

    A relative unknown to many around the league, Hatcher was quietly one of the league's best interior defensive linemen a year ago as he graded at plus-25.7 as a 3-4 defensive end. Now he's our second-ranked DT and showing no problems making the transition.

    Sean Lee, ILB, Cowboys
    Pick No. 20 | 2013 Grade: +9.0

    Lee may be the league's best coverage linebacker, as his plus-5.8 grade ranks right near the top in that department. He's intercepted four passes while deflecting three more and his instincts and athleticism have proved valuable.

    Darrelle Revis, CB, Buccaneers
    Pick No. 8 | 2013 Grade: +13.7

    Putting team record and scheme aside, Revis can still play, and he leads all cornerbacks with a plus-13.7 overall grade. He's only allowed 14 receptions on 28 targets into his coverage for 108 yards and a long pass of 13 yards. It may not be the Revis Island of old schematically, but even in zone, Revis has proven that he still belongs among the league's elite players.

    Devin McCourty, FS, Patriots
    Pick No. 32 | 2013 Grade: +16.2

    The move from cornerback to safety has worked wonders for McCourty, whose plus-16.2 grade leads the league. He's rarely out of position and he knows how to find the ball on the back end. He's tied for the league lead with five passes defensed.

    Eric Berry, SS, Chiefs:
    Pick No. 16 | 2013 Grade: +9.2

    Berry has shined in a versatile role for the Chiefs, doubling as both a traditional safety and an extra linebacker in their sub packages. He's often been responsible for covering opposing tight ends, and he's done well in the role, allowing only 4.6 yards per attempt into his coverage while getting his hands on four passes and intercepting another.

    Nick Folk, K, Jets:
    Pick No. 45 | 2013 Grade: +11.6

    If there's been a better kicker than Folk this year, then please let me know. He's not only demonstrated some clutch kicking to lead the team to victory, but he's also perfect on the year with three of his FGs coming from more than 50 yards.

    Elsayed's Elites Breakdown

    Khaled's Pro Bowl roster

    PosPlayerPick2013 Grade
    QBAaron Rodgers(3)+16.9
    RBLeSean McCoy(6)+16.3
    WRDez Bryant(10)+11.5
    WRJordy Nelson(14)+14.2
    FBMike Tolbert(43)+6.4
    TEJimmy Graham(7)+6.6
    OTJoe Thomas(22)+15.8
    OTDoug Free(34)+16.6
    OGDavid DeCastro(26)+11.7
    OGLogan Mankins(42)+5.2
    OCChris Myers(39)+12.4
    DEJ.J. Watt(2)+44.5
    DEMichael Johnson(23)+18.3
    DTGerald McCoy(11)+20.7
    DTGeno Atkins(30)+19.9
    ILBDerrick Johnson(27)+11.4
    OLBJustin Houston(18)+20.8
    OLBTamba Hali(19)+14.3
    CBAqib Talib(15)+8.2
    CBAlterraun Verner(35)+11.4
    SST.J. Ward(38)+11.4
    FSEarl Thomas(31)+11.0
    KMatt Prater(51)+6.3
    RCordarrelle Patterson(46)+7.9
    PThomas Morstead(50)+15.2
    STJustin Bethel(47)+6.5
    LeSean McCoy, RB, Eagles
    Pick No. 6 | 2013 Grade: +16.3

    I want a RB who can do it all, and McCoy, our top-ranked back, is that guy. His offensive line has certainly afforded him some space, but in forcing 38 missed tackles (second most in the league), he has shown he knows how to make teams pay.

    Jordy Nelson, WR, Packers
    Pick No. 14 | 2013 Grade: +14.2

    Nelson isn't the flashiest of receivers, but he's as productive as they come. I've already got Aaron Rodgers at quarterback, so being able to rely on a duo that has produced a 148.2 grade on targeted passes is pretty handy.

    Joe Thomas, OT, Browns
    Pick No. 22 | 2013 Grade: +15.8

    If you're going to get a left tackle, then you should get one who is a stud in pass protection, right? Despite being hindered by quarterbacks who like to hold onto the ball, Thomas has the fifth-best pass-blocking efficiency score of all left tackles and has allowed just 18 quarterback disruptions all year.

    David DeCastro, OG, Steelers:
    Pick No. 26 | 2013 Grade: +11.7

    I know how much Steve loves DeCastro, so I wasn't going to let him have him. That's petty of me, but it ensures I have one of the premier, run-mauling guards in the league. The Pro Bowl may not be the perfect place for him to show off those skills, but he certainly deserves the nod.

    J.J. Watt, DE, Texans:
    Pick No. 1 | 2013 Grade: +44.5

    The only surprise here to some may be that I went with him with my first pick. Why not, though? His sack numbers are down, but Watt has still made more defensive stops in the run game (22) than any other 3-4 end, while he once again is comfortably the most productive pass-rusher.

    Gerald McCoy, DT, Buccaneers
    Pick No. 11 | 2013 Grade: +19.9

    You could say (and you'd be right) that a lot is asked of McCoy. The Bucs aren't blessed with a lot of talent on their defensive line, but McCoy sticks out for his ability to make plays in every phase of the game.

    Derrick Johnson, ILB, Chiefs
    Pick No. 27 | 2013 Grade: +11.4

    The top-ranked inside linebacker in our rankings, Johnson goes under the radar relative to the impact he makes on the field. He's second at his position with 34 defensive stops, with 10 of those coming in coverage, which highlights his closing ability.

    Justin Houston, OLB, Chiefs
    Pick No. 18 | 2013 Grade: +20.8

    I ended up with both Chiefs outside linebackers (taking Tamba Hali, too), but it was the all-around game of Houston that made him my first selection. As if it's not enough that he has the third-highest pass rushing productivity score of all linebackers, he's seventh in defensive stops against the run and even earned a positive grade for his work in coverage.

    Earl Thomas, FS, Seahawks
    Pick No. 31 | 2013 Grade: +11.0

    Steve played it safe with his safety selection, but I've gone for a guy who can contribute on every down. You might get a few more negative plays with Thomas, but he's quick to support in the run game and those four interceptions highlight his playmaking ability.

    Justin Bethel, ST, Vikings
    Pick No. 47 | 2013 Grade: +6.5

    It never hurts to show some love for the special teamers. Bethel, the premier gunner in the league, has already drawn five penalties on special teams from opposing players who just can't slow him down.
  • Tiernan
    I hate this game every year because I wanna see both of them get shelled. But w/o Ray "Ima Killer" Lewis the Ratbirds are 1% less more nauseating than the Clowns so I'm saying Crab Cakes 24 - Cleveburgh 17.
  • Commander of Awesome
    Great point about Thomas playing with Flipper back there. He'd be #1 with Hoyer back there this season.
  • BR1986FB
    Commander of Awesome;1525625 wrote:According to PFF, Browns have 4 projected Pro Bowl starters, Haden isn't one of them. Also DeCastro is on there, glad we didn't draft him to make a PWN line and got a fucking BUM at the QB spot instead. SMH, fucking holmgren. Also smh at ppl telling me DeCastro would have been a bad pick and smh lolfail at those fapping to the weeden pick.
    He's still not better than Zeitler, from Cincinnati.
  • BR1986FB
    And notice no mention of Joe Thomas' 'stud run blocking' efficiency? Wonder why that might be?
  • Commander of Awesome
    BR1986FB;1525645 wrote:He's still not better than Zeitler, from Cincinnati.
    Zeitler wasn't mentioned and plays on a much better Oline than DeCastro, thus would have an easier time ranking up the stats.
  • Commander of Awesome
    BR1986FB;1525646 wrote:And notice no mention of Joe Thomas' 'stud run blocking' efficiency? Wonder why that might be?
    Umm, probably bc we don't run the ball BR. Not to mention the quality of our RBs.
  • BR1986FB
    Commander of Awesome;1525647 wrote:Zeitler wasn't mentioned and plays on a much better Oline than DeCastro, thus would have an easier time ranking up the stats.
    Was just pointing out that I said I'd rather have Zeitler, if they were going in that direction, over Decastro, in that draft.
  • BR1986FB
    Commander of Awesome;1525648 wrote:Umm, probably bc we don't run the ball BR. Not to mention the quality of our RBs.
    Quality of RB's doesn't have much to do with it. Shanahan seems to turn a bunch of street free agent types into household names with his O-Lines/systems.
  • Commander of Awesome
    BR1986FB;1525652 wrote:Was just pointing out that I said I'd rather have Zeitler, if they were going in that direction, over Decastro, in that draft.
    Oh I forgot you liked him more.
  • Mulva
    No idea how I didn't think of Cameron. Nobody on the browns OL should be a pro bowler right now in my opinion.

    PFF always loves ward.
  • like_that
    Mulva;1525662 wrote:No idea how I didn't think of Cameron. Nobody on the browns OL should be a pro bowler right now in my opinion.

    PFF always loves ward.
    JT should be, I'm a little surprised by Mack though.
  • Sonofanump
    like_that;1525761 wrote:JT should be, I'm a little surprised by Mack though.
    Who else is going to score on the quad reverse to the center play?
  • wes_mantooth
    Commander of Awesome;1525657 wrote:Oh I forgot you liked him more.
    I loved decastro...really thought they would take him when slipped to us. I didn't realize the last front office was retarded though.
  • Iliketurtles
    wes_mantooth;1526409 wrote:I loved decastro...really thought they would take him when slipped to us. I didn't realize the last front office was retarded though.
    I think everyone loved him. I really wanted the Cowboys to take him haha... when he started to slip all I said was please don't let him fall to the Steelers...
  • BR1986FB
    Iliketurtles;1526610 wrote:I think everyone loved him. I really wanted the Cowboys to take him haha... when he started to slip all I said was please don't let him fall to the Steelers...
    Not everyone. :)
  • BR1986FB
    Browns tried to "poach" Tolzien off Packers' practice squad....

    http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2013/10/nfl-news-browns-try-to-poach-green-bay-quarterback/
  • like_that
    Inb4 Gordon is mentioned.
  • Commander of Awesome
    Browns now 4-1 with combination of Hoyer/Campbell starting. 0-4 with Weeden at the helm.

    SMFH at Chud and the coaching staff for starting Weeden.
  • se-alum
    Commander of Awesome;1528717 wrote:Browns now 4-1 with combination of Hoyer/Campbell starting. 0-4 with Weeden at the helm.

    SMFH at Chud and the coaching staff for starting Weeden.
    Think you have to give the Buffalo game to Weeden.
  • like_that
    So, now that we are at the bye week, what do you all think about this team? I know its frustrating we are 4-5, when it seems like we could have a hell of a better record with just an average QB, but there are some positives from this team. Overall, before this year we were thinking that this team was so many pieces away from being a contender, however I think this season has so far proven this team is only a few pieces a way. Unfortunately QB is a very key piece, and a tough one to find.
  • se-alum
    like_that;1528797 wrote:So, now that we are at the bye week, what do you all think about this team? I know its frustrating we are 4-5, when it seems like we could have a hell of a better record with just an average QB, but there are some positives from this team. Overall, before this year we were thinking that this team was so many pieces away from being a contender, however I think this season has so far proven this team is only a few pieces a way. Unfortunately QB is a very key piece, and a tough one to find.
    It's shaping up to make the draft very interesting. Do we take a QB mid-first round or wait and take one with our 2nd pick, and hope he can be groomed behind Hoyer if he comes back healthy? I kinda like the idea of trying to get Khalil Mack with the first pick to replace Robertson, who is the biggest liability on the front 7.
  • like_that
    se-alum;1528801 wrote:It's shaping up to make the draft very interesting. Do we take a QB mid-first round or wait and take one with our 2nd pick, and hope he can be groomed behind Hoyer if he comes back healthy? I kinda like the idea of trying to get Khalil Mack with the first pick to replace Robertson, who is the biggest liability on the front 7.

    I don't think we should spend our first pick on a lber. Anyway, I would also like to point out I like this team's attitude. After the chiefs loss, they immediately started looking forward to the Ravens game. A lot of players after that game were saying "we can win with campbell." Maybe something good came out of that game, because it seemed like the defense got their head out of their asses after the first half of that game too.
  • SportsAndLady
    Get Hoyer back next year. Take a QB in the first round to groom behind Hoyer for a year.

    Fill depth and we do need a LB or 2.
  • like_that
    SportsAndLady;1528807 wrote:Get Hoyer back next year. Take a QB in the first round to groom behind Hoyer for a year.

    Fill depth and we do need a LB or 2.
    You don't need a first round LBer, especially to play in a 3-4 defense as a thumper/middle linebacker. I'm only taking a LBer in the first round if its an outside lber who is going to add to our pass rush.