Tribe Off Season/Hot Stove thread.

• CLEconomically Speaking

  

  Here's another pretty good article showing how the 2012 draft affected the Bourn signing. Side note: if Appel is available at #5 when we pick in June we better take this kid.
  
  http://www.letsgotribe.com/cleveland_indians_2012_2013_offseason/2013/2/11/3978936/pirates-and-mark-appel-help-indians-land-bourn
• wes_mantooth

  

  CLEconomically Speaking;1389698 wrote:Here's another pretty good article showing how the 2012 draft affected the Bourn signing. Side note: if Appel is available at #5 when we pick in June we better take this kid.
  
  http://www.letsgotribe.com/cleveland_indians_2012_2013_offseason/2013/2/11/3978936/pirates-and-mark-appel-help-indians-land-bourn

  Who is his agent? That seems to be a big determining factor anymore when it comes to drafting...because of sign-ability
• se-alum

  

  hoops23;1389605 wrote:Bingo. It's no different than a guy like Casey Kotchman or whoever hitting a routine ground ball to the 1B with 2 on and 2 out or something... An out is an out.
  
  The only difference is, guys like Swish and Bourn are going to get on base A LOT more and provide more runs/scoring opportunities with their individual abilities.

  An out is not an out, which is why Stubbs would frustrate the hell out of you. A sac fly and a strikout are both outs, but on one of them you get a run. The only things that offset strikeouts are walks and clutch hitting.
• CLEconomically Speaking

  

  I hate how negative everyone is about Stubbs. Would you rather go back to a platoon of Aaron Cunningham, Johnny Damon, and Shelley Duncan? Not exactly elite hitters. Stubbs has the potential to be a 30/30 guy. And hes a great defender and baserunner. Give him a shot
• hoops23

  

  se-alum;1389842 wrote:An out is not an out, which is why Stubbs would frustrate the hell out of you. A sac fly and a strikout are both outs, but on one of them you get a run. The only things that offset strikeouts are walks and clutch hitting.

  In that same argument, Stubbs would be able to manufacture a run easier than a guy like Cunningham or Kotchman could due to his ability to steal a base and his speed on the basepaths.
• se-alum

  

  CLEconomically Speaking;1389859 wrote:I hate how negative everyone is about Stubbs. Would you rather go back to a platoon of Aaron Cunningham, Johnny Damon, and Shelley Duncan? Not exactly elite hitters. Stubbs has the potential to be a 30/30 guy. And hes a great defender and baserunner. Give him a shot

  I don't know how much you've watched Stubbs, but he'll never be 30/30, he's never shown that ability. He's a good defender. He has a plus arm and gap to gap speed, he can't make a diving catch to save his life, and typically won't even try. He also is terrible on anything close to the wall. He is good on the bases, if he can get on. I hope he comes out of it though, would love to see the Reds and Indians have great seasons!
• HitsRus

  

  Tribe is crazy fast....
  http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130215&content_id=41709842&notebook_id=41709854&vkey=notebook_cle&c_id=cle
• HitsRus

  

  Chris Antonetti credits Dolan with opening wallet to get Bourn...
  http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2013/02/16/dolans-broke-budget-for-bourn-tribe-gm-says.html
• royal_k

  

  HitsRus;1390299 wrote:Chris Antonetti credits Dolan with opening wallet to get Bourn...
  http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2013/02/16/dolans-broke-budget-for-bourn-tribe-gm-says.html

  They may have opened the up the checkbook. But taking Hafner and Sizemore off the books freed up a lot of money.
• HitsRus

  

  Ubaldo working on cleaning up his mechanics.
  http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2013/02/justin_masterson_ubaldo_jimene_1.html
  
  Jimenez worked hard over the winter watching video and trying to clean up his mechanics. As we talked about last year, Jimenez was most effective when his fastball was above 94 MPH....unfortunately most of the times it was 90-92, and the result was what we witnessed. When Jimenez was at the top of his game with the Rockies, his fastball would be consistently mid to upper 90's, and emphasis this spring will be towards returning to that as Francona attempts to get Ubaldo to throw 'downhill'.
• CLEconomically Speaking

  

  HitsRus;1390740 wrote:Ubaldo working on cleaning up his mechanics.
  http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2013/02/justin_masterson_ubaldo_jimene_1.html
  
  Jimenez worked hard over the winter watching video and trying to clean up his mechanics. As we talked about last year, Jimenez was most effective when his fastball was above 94 MPH....unfortunately most of the times it was 90-92, and the result was what we witnessed. When Jimenez was at the top of his game with the Rockies, his fastball would be consistently mid to upper 90's, and emphasis this spring will be towards returning to that as Francona attempts to get Ubaldo to throw 'downhill'.

  I think Ubaldo will surprise people this year. The added offense and the familiarity with the division should boost his confidence. That and a mini change of scenery with a new pitching coach and manager.
• royal_k

  

  CLEconomically Speaking;1390896 wrote:I think Ubaldo will surprise people this year. The added offense and the familiarity with the division should boost his confidence. That and a mini change of scenery with a new pitching coach and manager.

  If Masterson can pitch like he did 2 years ago, and Ubaldo like he did with the Rockies, they will have a chance.
• wes_mantooth

  

  royal_k;1390989 wrote:If Masterson can pitch like he did 2 years ago, and Ubaldo like he did with the Rockies, they will have a chance.

  I am with you on the Masterson thing, but Ubaldo has only really had a half of a season of quality....he has been absolute shit after that hot start a few years ago. I hope I am wrong, but I have already written off that trade as a disaster.
• Crimson streak

  

  wes_mantooth;1391299 wrote:I am with you on the Masterson thing, but Ubaldo has only really had a half of a season of quality....he has been absolute **** after that hot start a few years ago. I hope I am wrong, but I have already written off that trade as a disaster.

  
  Ubaldo's problem is all mechanics. He has dominant stuff he just needs to control it. I'm hoping Francona has fixed his issues. If he can have an era around 3.50 we should be in good shape
• hoops23

  

  wes_mantooth;1391299 wrote:I am with you on the Masterson thing, but Ubaldo has only really had a half of a season of quality....he has been absolute shit after that hot start a few years ago. I hope I am wrong, but I have already written off that trade as a disaster.

  Hard to call that trade a disaster when the other pitchers sent away have ERA's over 6 and 5 themselves.
• CLEconomically Speaking

  

  Revenge in the works for Tribe FO? Chris Perez trade rumors have been put on hold as of late, but you cant ignore all of the bullpen acquisitions of the off-season. Especially the addition of late inning reliever Matt Capps. The Indians no longer need Perez and he's set to earn over 7 million this year and even more next year. I'd love to see Pestano as the closer, and I bet the front office would love to dump Perez after last year's antics. Oh how funny it would be to see them trade Perez only to make the postseason without him.
• wes_mantooth

  

  hoops23;1391405 wrote:Hard to call that trade a disaster when the other pitchers sent away have ERA's over 6 and 5 themselves.

  
  I call it that because pence could have been had....supposedly
• wes_mantooth

  

  Crimson streak;1391304 wrote:Ubaldo's problem is all mechanics. He has dominant stuff he just needs to control it. I'm hoping Francona has fixed his issues. If he can have an era around 3.50 we should be in good shape

  
  Same could be said for fausto....but he could never throw strikes
• hoops23

  

  wes_mantooth;1391482 wrote:I call it that because pence could have been had....supposedly

  fair enough on that front.
• Footwedge

  hoops23;1391405 wrote:Hard to call that trade a disaster when the other pitchers sent away have ERA's over 6 and 5 themselves.

  White..........5.51
  Pomeranz....4.93
  
  Ubaldo...5.41.
  
  And those two pichers are young, both battled through injuries last season.
  
  Ubaldo had been struggling for most of his career when management pulled the trigger on that deal. Probably the worst trade in over a decade.
• mucalum49

  

  http://espn.go.com/blog/spring-training/post/_/id/448/indians-need-their-rotation-to-be-improved
  
  Good to hear Scott Kazmir has got back on track. One of my favorite Rays when he was with us, hope for his and the Tribe's sake he finds a spot in the rotation.
  
  Would he be the only lefty battling for a spot in the rotation? Not that it matters, just found it odd for a pro team to have so many righty's in a rotation. You typically see 2-3 left handers in the rotation or ready to be called up.
• Footwedge

  Not to beat a dead horse....but would tribe fans be happy to deal Fausto to some team that had 2 young, hard throwing grade A pitching prospects in return? Well, Fausto's career mirrors Ubaldo's.
  
  Yes, Fausto's best year was better than Ubaldo's best year.
• HitsRus

  

  I don't think there is any doubt that every Tribe fan to a man would like to have that trade back...now. But, I don't think many of us would have been happy if the Tribe had traded Fausto after the 2007 season for a couple of prospects.
  
  As for beating a dead horse...yeah but so what...go ahead if you must. Just don't be like NCF and his need to be 'proved right'...the trade is pretty far in the rear view mirror. Time to get behind UJ and root for him to do well. Watch for the key number...95 MPH.
  
  As for it being the worst trade...ehhh I'd say the Lee trade was the worst. That trade hangs on the rebuilt arm of Carlos Carrasco.
• royal_k

  

  mucalum49;1391562 wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/spring-training/post/_/id/448/indians-need-their-rotation-to-be-improved
  
  Good to hear Scott Kazmir has got back on track. One of my favorite Rays when he was with us, hope for his and the Tribe's sake he finds a spot in the rotation.
  
  Would he be the only lefty battling for a spot in the rotation? Not that it matters, just found it odd for a pro team to have so many righty's in a rotation. You typically see 2-3 left handers in the rotation or ready to be called up.

  Kasmir hitting the 90's again is a big improvement. If he could make it back it would be a huge boost to the rotation.
• Footwedge

  HitsRus;1391631 wrote:I don't think there is any doubt that every Tribe fan to a man would like to have that trade back...now. But, I don't think many of us would have been happy if the Tribe had traded Fausto after the 2007 season for a couple of prospects.
  
  As for beating a dead horse...yeah but so what...go ahead if you must. Just don't be like NCF and his need to be 'proved right'...the trade is pretty far in the rear view mirror. Time to get behind UJ and root for him to do well. Watch for the key number...95 MPH.
  
  As for it being the worst trade...ehhh I'd say the Lee trade was the worst. That trade hangs on the rebuilt arm of Carlos Carrasco.

  Has nothing to do with me being right or wrong. I am wrong just as often as anyone else is. Doesn't mean I can't voice my opinions....right or wrong. But your corollary is wrong regarding hypothetically trading Fausto at the end of his rookie year. Ubaldo WAS NOT traded at the so called apex of his career. And that was my point. Ubaldo was garbage during the second half of 2010 and the first half of 2011. That was 6 months of bad pitching. (3 mths each year). Ubaldo was 4-7 after the All Star break in 2010 (I admit he was phenominal the first half of that season and was the starting pitcher in that game) and then 6-9 the first half of 2011.
  
  As for Cliff Lee, yeah they should have done better....but he did have a contract ending the year after. Both trades were bad...I think Ubaldo's was worse.