Tribe Off Season/Hot Stove thread.
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Ironman92
wes_mantooth;1387193 wrote:I don't get this signing at all.....where the hell are we going to play Grady now?
Right in front of Stubbs I'd recommend -
Laley23
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS hearing stubbs is the #indians most likely ouftield trade bait. the #mets need to line up there.
Awesome. Please get a SP for him. Any SP will do lol. -
CLEconomically Speaking
Zach Wheeler! Get it done NOWLaley23;1387231 wrote:Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS hearing stubbs is the #indians most likely ouftield trade bait. the #mets need to line up there.
Awesome. Please get a SP for him. Any SP will do lol. -
Midstate01
If I were you guys id be happy with a bag of dicks for stubbs. Hes awful -
Footwedge
One bag or two bags?Midstate01;1387280 wrote:If I were you guys id be happy with a bag of dicks for stubbs. Hes awful
Great get by Dolan. MB is awesome baby. The team improved not just offensively with this. Our left fielders last year were painful to watch out there. -
Classyposter58
Nice to see a little more life in the AL Central. Maybe another competitive team along with the White Sox in the division. Detroit probably rolls but wow this League is insane. NYY, TB, TOR, DET, CWS, LAA, TEX and OAK all legit playoff teams this season -
Midstate01
Footwedge;1387286 wrote:One bag or two bags?
Great get by Dolan. MB is awesome baby. The team improved not just offensively with this. Our left fielders last year were painful to watch out there.
One is plenty!! -
se-alum
Bourn is a heck of a pick-up for the Tribe. Also, LOL at Mets lining up for Stubbs. He would strike out 300 times in that spotlight. -
HitsRus
This has made a few players expendable...Stubbs, Brantley, Carrera...all can be used to pick up another pitcher. I would not like to see Brantley go...but.....
The key to the season still is however, Masterson or somebody else developing into an ace. I don't think you are going to trade for one. -
bases_loaded
Ughhhh
Brantley is too good to move IMO. -
like_that
[h=3]Bourn an upgrade, odd fit in Cleveland
[/h]February, 11, 2013 Feb 11
9:54
PM ET
Michael Bourn doesn't quite fill a need for the Cleveland Indians, but he immediately becomes one of the team's best players, primarily because of the value of his glove in center.
The team already had Drew Stubbs and Michael Brantley, two competent center fielders, under contract for this year, but Bourn is better than either of them and takes over the center field job, pushing them to left field or the trade block. Assuming no one is dealt, this probably pushes Nick Swisher to first base, hurting his value slightly, and Mark Reynolds to DH, which does the same.
[+] Enlarge
Daniel Shirey/US PresswireBourn finished second in the NL in steals in 2012.
Bourn's worth several wins a year above a replacement-level player -- again due to a huge boost from his plus-plus defense -- but in Cleveland's case, he's not actually replacing a replacement-level player, so he's probably not going to deliver more value to the team than they're paying him to provide. It's a reasonable contract (four years, $48 million), a year longer than you'd like for a speed guy entering his 30s, but very fair for the club considering the rate of acceleration of salaries this winter.
What I don't see here is the endgame for Cleveland. The team still isn't good enough to catch the Detroit Tigers without a substantial amount of luck in both directions -- bad for Detroit and good for Cleveland -- because the Indians lack the pitching to challenge for the division.
The club's starters had a 5.25 ERA last year and the only addition is rookie Trevor Bauer, who has great promise but who isn't likely to bring that figure down much by himself. To make their offseason acquisitions of Bourn, Swisher, Reynolds and Stubbs make any sense, they need to deal at least one of their surplus outfielders -- Stubbs or Brantley -- for pitching help.
They're not a .500 team as currently constructed, even with improvements on offense and in their outfield defense, even if you assume that one of Carlos Santana, Jason Kipnis or (least likely) Lonnie Chisenhall takes a step forward. In fact, as good as Bourn is, Brantley actually had the better triple-slash line last year while playing in the better league, although he can't touch Bourn on defense or on the bases.
The only other explanation for their signings this winter is that they're stockpiling assets that they believe will appear underpriced a year from now, and will thus be valuable in the trade market -- and they may be right, as neither Swisher nor Bourn signed for as much money on a per-year basis as we might have expected in a high-inflation market. It's possible that this will all turn out to be very clever on the part of their front office, but it may not prevent an 85-loss season in the meantime. Cleveland also loses the 71st overall pick, a competitive balance lottery pick, because heaven forbid we give the lowest-revenue clubs any sort of advantage in the primary way to acquire talent cheaply in this game.
The losers here are the New York Mets and possibly the Kansas City Royals. The Mets supposedly wanted Bourn but refused to give up their first-round pick -- the 11th overall selection -- which was left unprotected when both sides fell asleep during that portion of the last CBA negotiations. They're now left with an outfield, from left field to right, of Wynken, Blynken and Nod, which may be among the worst in modern major league history, even considering Nod's strong throwing arm and Blynken's tremendous batting eye.
The Royals, on the other hand, are somewhat dependent on the weakness of their division to make a run at a wild-card spot, so every move that Cleveland, Minnesota or the White Sox make to get better hurts the odds of Kansas City getting to the 88-win territory. There's nothing the Royals can do about this, but I imagine the hope of a fairly weak schedule helped them feel confident in trading Wil Myers for James Shields and Wade Davis -- a schedule that has become slightly less weak since that trade. -
CLEconomically Speaking
Mets need an outfielder. Indians need pitching. A possible deal that makes the most sense to me is Stubbs for Johann Santana and cash. Santana is owed 25.5mil this year and has a 25 mil club option for next. Most likely NY would exercise the 5.5mil buyout Santana's contract. So over the next year they owe him 31 million dollars.
Instead, NY sends Santana and 10.5 million to Cle for Stubbs and a few minor league guys or relief pitchers. This saves the Mets 20.5 million dollars.
Tribe then restructures Santana's deal to something like 3 years 45 mil -
Commander of Awesome
why would we want Santana? -
Laley23
Id take him over Stubbs!!!Commander of Awesome;1387584 wrote:why would we want Santana?
But, Id prefer a P who isnt broken down and might give us over 120 innings lol. -
CLEconomically Speaking
Rotation guy this year and next. bullpen to finish out his contract. Gives guys like Bauer and Kluber more time to develop into front line guys.Commander of Awesome;1387584 wrote:why would we want Santana?
cant tell me Masterson Jiminez Santana Myers McAllister isn't a decent rotation to start the season -
CLEconomically Speaking
Doesn't matter if he goes down. Got guys like Bauer Carrasco Kluber Kasmir and dare I say Dice-k waiting to step in..Laley23;1387589 wrote:Id take him over Stubbs!!!
But, Id prefer a P who isnt broken down and might give us over 120 innings lol.
Agreed 15 mill is a lot to pay a guy will inevitably get hurt, but I believe he would help this team a lot more than Hafner did and we payed him 13.. -
Laley23
Thats a flawed approach though. Hafner had hit 100 RBIs every year with us when we signed him. It ended up a bad contract, but was an OK contract at the time. Why would you want to repeat what we JUST had with Pronk and Grady with Santana who hasnt been healthy since he was last in the AL Central?CLEconomically Speaking;1387602 wrote:Doesn't matter if he goes down. Got guys like Bauer Carrasco Kluber Kasmir and dare I say Dice-k waiting to step in..
Agreed 15 mill is a lot to pay a guy will inevitably get hurt, but I believe he would help this team a lot more than Hafner did and we payed him 13..
I mean, just because we are done with a bad contract doesnt mean we should go jump into another one. Santana at a discount (NYM pay a lot) I would be fine with. But not when we are paying that much. Thats wasted money. -
TBone14
Stubbs plus somebody for Niese would be sweet.Laley23;1387696 wrote:Thats a flawed approach though. Hafner had hit 100 RBIs every year with us when we signed him. It ended up a bad contract, but was an OK contract at the time. Why would you want to repeat what we JUST had with Pronk and Grady with Santana who hasnt been healthy since he was last in the AL Central?
I mean, just because we are done with a bad contract doesnt mean we should go jump into another one. Santana at a discount (NYM pay a lot) I would be fine with. But not when we are paying that much. Thats wasted money. -
royal_k
I like this a lot. And I want no part of Santana for the amount of money he will command.TBone14;1387765 wrote:Stubbs plus somebody for Niese would be sweet.
Maybe they still have a shot at Lohse. -
wes_mantooth
No way on Santana....that sounds awful -
Mulva
Based on last season I could absolutely tell you that.CLEconomically Speaking;1387592 wrote:cant tell me Masterson Jiminez Santana Myers McAllister isn't a decent rotation to start the season
Baseball Prospectus' PECOTA system currently projects the Tribe to go 80-82. 2nd in the Central. -
TBone14
Mulva;1388064 wrote:Based on last season I could absolutely tell you that.
Baseball Prospectus' PECOTA system currently projects the Tribe to go 80-82. 2nd in the Central.
Buddy of mine just texted me and said someone on MLB Network had the Tribe with 90 wins. Not sure who but 90 should be one of the Wildcard spots...if not a division title. -
ohiobucks1
I want another SP so bad -
lhslep134
I made all of the recent changes and started a new franchise in MLB 2K12 (Bauer is my 5th starter).
Lineup is ridiculous, there's speed all over the place, at least in the lineup I used:
1. Bourn
2. Cabrera
3. Kipnis
4. Santana
5. Brantley
6. Swisher
7. Reynolds
8. Chisenhall
9. Stubbs -
HitsRus
I like this lineup...speed and defense. This team can score many ways.Lineup is ridiculous, there's speed all over the place, at least in the lineup I used:
