NFL replacement refs

• jmog

  queencitybuckeye;1274951 wrote:The demands being made for a part-time job are beyond ridiculous. Go with these guys, replace the bottom 10% every year, in 5 years, perhaps less, there's almost no difference.

  I also agree with this, the demands of the NFL refs are crazy.
  
  I also believe the current refs are terrible in comparison to the regular ones. It maybe overblown some, but it really is bad in comparison.
  
  I believe both sides (NFL and NFLRA) both have a problem right now.
• Laley23

  

  They suck. If I see one more play end without a flag and then have a ref throw one because a coach or players are in his ear, Im gonna flip. Its happening WAY to often. These guys are significantly worse. Its unfortuante.
• Automatik

  

  Laley23;1274984 wrote:These guys are significantly worse. Its unfortuante.

  It's obvious. It blows my mind that people think the complaints are "blowing it out of proportion."
  
  They are either a. not watching the games or b. just going against the crowd, consensus, etc. for the hell of it.
  
  It's bad, and it will get worse before it gets better.
  
  Missed calls happen, but the things I've seen over the last two weeks go above and beyond your everyday missed call.
• OSH

  

  Uh oh...someone is wrong here...from the Wall Street Journal:
  

  The Embattled Officials Aren't Wrong as Much as You Think, but They're Definitely Slower

  
  
  On replay calls:

  Only 31% of those calls [29 replay challenges so far -- an increase of 11% from last year] have been overturned, which is down from 52% last season and 42% in 2010.

  On length of the game:

  Their indecision has contributed to games lasting six minutes longer, up to three hours and 13 minutes.

  That's eight seconds more [on penalty calls] than the time used on average by the regular referees.

  On flag frequency:

  In the past two weeks, 470 penalties were called—that's a difference of 11 penalties from the same span last season.

  Common penalties like delay of game, illegal block, offside and roughing the passer were nearly identical to their 2011 numbers, according to Stats LLC. There hasn't been much of a home-field bias, either. In 2011, 44.5% of penalties through two weeks were called on the home team. That number rose to just 45.1% this season.

  Regarding DBs:

  Fifty pass interference calls were made through two weeks this year. That's up 28% from last season. Holding penalties were called 121 times, up from 107 a year ago. Perhaps most startling, they've called 21 personal fouls, up from four last season.

  Not saw awful now eh? It definitely puts some things into perspective.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  Those stats are fine and dandy, but when watching live, and the refs have to huddle for a minute to decide what number the holding call was on, it slows down the game from a fan perspective. It's annoying.
• Classyposter58

  

  Batter A is hitting .312 with 16 HR's and 45 RBI
  
  Batter B is hitting .303 with 11 HR's and 38 RBI
  
  Batter A is a DII college SS while Batter B is a starting MLB SS. See how my original stats made it seem like Batter A is better but really there's no comparison and we all know this? Same with these refs. If you're watching the games, they're horrible. They just seem to be behind as far as being used to the speed of the game. So they're actually trying to call the penalties at times a second before it actually happens. There has been no constiency at all in PI and Defensive holding
• Gblock

  OSH;1275147 wrote:Uh oh...someone is wrong here...from the Wall Street Journal:
  
  [/I][/FONT][/COLOR]
  
  On replay calls:
  
  
  On length of the game:
  
  
  
  On flag frequency:
  
  
  
  Regarding DBs:
  
  
  Not saw awful now eh? It definitely puts some things into perspective.

  
  meh...while the number of calls could be the same, at what point they happen in the game is really what matters.
  
  thats like when i used to coach basketball and with 6 minutes to go the fouls could be 15 fouls to 3. in the last few minutes of a blowout the refs call a few tic tac fouls and if you read the paper the next day the fouls say 15 to 9 and it looks like an even number of fouls were called on both teams.
  
  im seeing missed calls that are extending drives and creating/costing points which is the problem. not the frequency of the calls.
• OSH

  

  DeyDurkie5;1275218 wrote:the refs have to huddle for a minute to decide what number the holding call was on, it slows down the game from a fan perspective. It's annoying.

  Well, that was mentioned...the length of the referee huddle. And yes, there is more to it than lengthening the game...like slowing momentum and rhythm of an offense [or defense].
  
  I think it is rather easy to point out regular NFL referees missing calls and lengthening drives for whatever. And...it's probably easy to point out the frequency too. Ed Hochuli anyone? What about the mysterious 5th down?
  
  It may be an issue, but it's not an issue to what everyone is making it out to be.
• WebFire

  Classyposter58;1275359 wrote:Batter A is hitting .312 with 16 HR's and 45 RBI
  
  Batter B is hitting .303 with 11 HR's and 38 RBI
  
  Batter A is a DII college SS while Batter B is a starting MLB SS. See how my original stats made it seem like Batter A is better but really there's no comparison and we all know this? Same with these refs. If you're watching the games, they're horrible. They just seem to be behind as far as being used to the speed of the game. So they're actually trying to call the penalties at times a second before it actually happens. There has been no constiency at all in PI and Defensive holding

  But if Batter A went to the majors and batted .299 with 9 HR's and 31 RBI, he's not all that bad, right?
• sleeper

  

  Count me in as someone who likes the replacement refs. I hope the NFL never caves for the 'real' refs and their ridiculous demands.
• OSH

  

  Classyposter58;1275359 wrote:Batter A is hitting .312 with 16 HR's and 45 RBI
  
  Batter B is hitting .303 with 11 HR's and 38 RBI
  
  Batter A is a DII college SS while Batter B is a starting MLB SS. See how my original stats made it seem like Batter A is better but really there's no comparison and we all know this? Same with these refs. If you're watching the games, they're horrible. They just seem to be behind as far as being used to the speed of the game. So they're actually trying to call the penalties at times a second before it actually happens. There has been no constiency at all in PI and Defensive holding

  This could be one of the worst comparisons I've ever heard.
  
  We aren't comparing how these replacement refs did in college and how the "real" NFL refs did in professional football. We are comparing the referees at the same level. But, of course, making sense isn't something we should do when we try to make a point in a discussion...
  

  Gblock;1275360 wrote:meh...while the number of calls could be the same, at what point they happen in the game is really what matters.
  
  thats like when i used to coach basketball and with 6 minutes to go the fouls could be 15 fouls to 3. in the last few minutes of a blowout the refs call a few tic tac fouls and if you read the paper the next day the fouls say 15 to 9 and it looks like an even number of fouls were called on both teams.

  So, you are saying the replacement referees are calling penalties at the end of games to even up the penalty count to what the "real" NFL referees had called in the last couple years? Interesting assumption. Not saying it's wrong, because this argument has not been proven right OR wrong. My guess is...this isn't even close to being right.
• Sonofanump

  sleeper;1275496 wrote:Count me in as someone who likes the replacement refs. I hope the NFL never caves for the 'real' refs and their ridiculous demands.

  Please tell me what those "ridiculous demands" entail? Is it not losing two assignments a year? Is it to retain the already earned pension?
  The NFL has offered a 2.8% raise per game and cutting two games. Please do the math on that one.
• Gblock

  OSH;1275540 wrote:This could be one of the worst comparisons I've ever heard.
  
  We aren't comparing how these replacement refs did in college and how the "real" NFL refs did in professional football. We are comparing the referees at the same level. But, of course, making sense isn't something we should do when we try to make a point in a discussion...
  
  
  
  So, you are saying the replacement referees are calling penalties at the end of games to even up the penalty count to what the "real" NFL referees had called in the last couple years? Interesting assumption. Not saying it's wrong, because this argument has not been proven right OR wrong. My guess is...this isn't even close to being right.

  not at all what im saying...im saying that not all penalties are equal...a personal foul at the the end of the game in a blowout with 30 sec left does not equal a personal foul on 3rd and 12 like was called in the sf/gb game when the guys helmet came off as he was tackling a. rodgers. just because the amount of penalties is the same does not necessarily mean the games are being reffed the same way. as the saying goes you could throw a flag on every play if you wanted type deal
• SportsAndLady

  

  Classyposter58;1275359 wrote:Batter A is hitting .312 with 16 HR's and 45 RBI
  
  Batter B is hitting .303 with 11 HR's and 38 RBI
  
  Batter A is a DII college SS while Batter B is a starting MLB SS. See how my original stats made it seem like Batter A is better but really there's no comparison and we all know this? Same with these refs. If you're watching the games, they're horrible. They just seem to be behind as far as being used to the speed of the game. So they're actually trying to call the penalties at times a second before it actually happens. There has been no constiency at all in PI and Defensive holding

  Lol wow
• jmog

  Sonofanump;1275679 wrote:Please tell me what those "ridiculous demands" entail? Is it not losing two assignments a year? Is it to retain the already earned pension?
  The NFL has offered a 2.8% raise per game and cutting two games. Please do the math on that one.

  Pensions, full pay pentions, for a part time job is pretty rediculous.
• Sonofanump

  jmog;1275753 wrote:Pensions, full pay pentions, for a part time job is pretty rediculous.

  Define part time. How many hours a week?
• Sonofanump

  Sonofanump;1275679 wrote:Please tell me what those "ridiculous demands" entail? Is it not losing two assignments a year? Is it to retain the already earned pension?
  The NFL has offered a 2.8% raise per game and cutting two games. Please do the math on that one.

  It's a 10% pay cut that the NFL is offering despite doubling the amount of money they are taking in with sponsorships.
• queencitybuckeye

  Sonofanump;1275760 wrote:Define part time. How many hours a week?

  3.5. No, the hours spent honing their craft do not count, all professionals must do that. No, travel time does not count, all professionals must do that.
• Sonofanump

  queencitybuckeye;1275770 wrote:3.5. No, the hours spent honing their craft do not count, all professionals must do that. No, travel time does not count, all professionals must do that.

  So NFL players only work 3.5 hours a week. Interesting.
  
  I get paid for my travel time for my professional employment. I get paid for the time I take to train for my professional employment.
• Gblock

  the nfl is a 9 billion dollar industry..surely they can come to some agreement instead of bickering over table scraps
• sleeper

  

  Sonofanump;1275679 wrote:Please tell me what those "ridiculous demands" entail? Is it not losing two assignments a year? Is it to retain the already earned pension?
  The NFL has offered a 2.8% raise per game and cutting two games. Please do the math on that one.

  Well considering the NFL is able to run its organization without experienced referees and still maintain billion dollar profits; the refs should be happy with their current salary + 2.8% raise.
• Gblock

  sleeper;1275783 wrote:Well considering the NFL is able to run its organization without experienced referees and still maintain billion dollar profits; the refs should be happy with their current salary + 2.8% raise.

  remains to be seen in the longrun...fans,coaches,players,advertisers are not happy with the product currently. could it get better? sure they can improve and maybe nothing bad will happen. I still say that it is just a matter of time until a call is going to cost a team a game.
• Sonofanump

  sleeper;1275783 wrote:Well considering the NFL is able to run its organization without experienced referees and still maintain billion dollar profits; the refs should be happy with their current salary + 2.8% raise.

  1) It is subjective, but thinking that the organization is running fine with the current officials is very disagreeable.
  2) If the current schedule is 16 games and you increase the pay per game by 2.8% and take two games away then the net salary is decreased by 10%.
• WebFire

  queencitybuckeye;1275770 wrote:3.5. No, the hours spent honing their craft do not count, all professionals must do that. No, travel time does not count, all professionals must do that.

  I don't agree with that. If the only way you can do your job is by flying to it, the company is going to cover that. And most companies provide some type of training for their employees.
• Sonofanump

  This weekend I will be away from my residence 29 hours due to a game (take out 7 hours for sleeping). Last night I was away from my residence four hours for a meeting. This does not account for self study and self conditioning. I’d imagine that on average I put in over 30 hours a week in season for the part time job at the NCAA level. NFL would account for more. It is not like officials show up at 1:05 and leave at 4:30 for a game.