2012 NBA Offseason

• Commander of Awesome

  

  Mulva;1229417 wrote:I've said D-Will was the best PG in the game for a few years now.

  I honestly can't think of one thing that I think CP3 does better than Dwill. Both great and phenomenal. NBA fans of the early 2000s can appreciate how great the current crop of PGs are. On shooting its a push, distribution its a push, with IMO Dwill getting the nod, defense and rebounding its not even a contest, DWill wins that hands down. I'd take DWill over CP3 every day, plus he doesn't have the injury history, and is bigger. CP3 might be better at getting to the hoop, though its neither of their game.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Regardless, we're arguing about the #1 or the #2 PG in the game.
• lhslep134

  

  Mulva;1229417 wrote:I've said D-Will was the best PG in the game for a few years now.
  
  I think him and CP3 are close though, and honestly putting one above the other might depend on the players around them (the overall fit with their team).

  I'm on board with this. I think CP3 and DWill are 1a and 1b, like you said it depends on the type of players around them to pick one of them for your team
• KR1245

  

  It's very close between these guys. CP3 a solid defender, I think he's made the all NBA defensive team a couple times. Williams is the better scorer imo, everything else is just about equal
• hoops23

  

  Mulva;1229417 wrote:I've said D-Will was the best PG in the game for a few years now.
  
  I think him and CP3 are close though, and honestly putting one above the other might depend on the players around them (the overall fit with their team).

  Same here... I've said it since they came into the league. DWill has always outperformed CP3 head-to-head as well..
  
  CP3 has better court vision, but DWill is no slouch in that department. DWill is a much better pure scorer though.
• GOONx19

  

  I'm one of the guys that will and has argued against Deron Williams on here. I know he's one of the best right now, but I think he could be so much better. Just IMO.
• hoops23

  

  KR1245;1229480 wrote:It's very close between these guys. CP3 a solid defender, I think he's made the all NBA defensive team a couple times. Williams is the better scorer imo, everything else is just about equal

  CP3 is a solid, but overrated defender... He made all defensive team because he racks up a lot of steals by playing passing lanes. I don't know if I've ever seen him lock up another legit player.
  
  I mean, defensive team is a joke anyway... The DPOY this past season wasn't even 1st team all defense.
• KR1245

  

  hoops23;1229505 wrote:CP3 is a solid, but overrated defender... He made all defensive team because he racks up a lot of steals by playing passing lanes. I don't know if I've ever seen him lock up another legit player.
  
  I mean, defensive team is a joke anyway... The DPOY this past season wasn't even 1st team all defense.

  I don't think there is really a lock down defensive pg in the league. I guess they need to give it to somebody. CP3 isn't an elite defender but I would take his defense over Williams. I give Williams the edge in scoring
• GOONx19

  

  I found this post of mine from March and I'll stand by it.
  

  He's not in the top 5 in assists, and his AST/TO ratio is THIRTY-SIXTH among point guards.
  
  He is number two in scoring, but he shoots more than any other PG except Westbrook, plays for an awful team, and has the second-to-worst FG% of any PG in the top 25.
  
  He's not in the top 10 in rebounds, and if you look at rebounds per 48 minutes he's not even in the top 20.
  
  He's not in the top 15 in steals, and he's not in the top 20 if you look at ST/TO.
  
  So essentially, all your PG does great is score, and he doesn't even do it efficiently.

  I don't feel like updating it with end of year stats, but there's no way he's the top PG in the league.
• Trueblue23

  

  This is the kind of shit that I hate about sports and specifically ESPN.
  
  Dwight says he will re-sign with LA. His agent thought that could be misinterpreted as something illegal (Tampering), so he cleans it up by saying Dwight isn't committed to signing an extension with the Lakers.
  
  ESPN BLOWS UP hating on Dwight.
  
  Well, you misinformed fucks. If you were really "the worldwide leader in sports" you would realize that Dwight would be stupid to sign an extension. Regardless of where he goes, he will become an unrestricted free agent in 2013, provided he was traded to a team he wants (Lakers, Nets) he will re-sign for the max,exactly like DWill did. Jesus I cannot believe how stupid "die hard fans" and "experts" are.
  
  End rant.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  If I were the magic, I'd hold on to Howard for this season. That way they maintain his birds rightsand can do a pwn S&T next offseason instead of teams trying to show them the 50 states since he wont sign an extension.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  More on Dwill CP3 PG debate:
  
  [h=3]On The NBA's Most Complete Point Guard[/h] By: Jonathan Tjarks
  Jul 04, 2012 12:39 PM EDT

  

  While his free agency decision dominated headlines over the last week, Deron Williams has spent the last two seasons mostly under the radar. Despite being the NBA’s most complete point guard, five different peers at the position -- Derrick Rose, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Tony Parker and Rajon Rondo -- made the All-NBA teams ahead of him during the prime of his career.
  
  An athletic 6’3, 205 guard with a 6’6 wingspan, Williams is a five-tool guard with no holes in his game. His combination of size, skill and athleticism allows him to affect a game in more ways than any of his contemporaries.
  
  Rondo is a perennial All-Defensive team selection, but his inconsistent perimeter shot has always been his Achilles heel. He hit some huge jumpers in the 2012 playoffs, but teams were still playing 2-3 feet off of him and daring him to shoot. That forces the Boston Celtics into all sorts of line-up contortions to maintain their floor spacing with Rondo at the point.
  
  It’s no coincidence Rondo had his best post-season when surrounded by four knock-down shooters (Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Brandon Bass). Rondo has played his entire career with three future Hall of Famers; Carlos Boozer is the best teammate Williams ever played with.
  
  Parker and Westbrook are deadly mid-range jump shooters, but neither has Williams’ range from deep. Despite playing on two of the NBA’s most potent offenses, Parker (23%) and Westbrook (31%) couldn’t consistently knock down wide-open 3-point shots. Both need the ball in their hands to be effective; Williams’ ability to space the floor (career 35% shooter) would be deadly next to Kevin Durant or Tim Duncan.
  
  Rose is the only one of the six to win an MVP, but that award had as much to do with the team the Chicago Bulls built around him. His explosive scoring ability gave Chicago just enough offense to play waves of one-dimensional defensive specialists around him, resembling Allen Iverson’s Philadelphia 76ers teams of the early 2000’s.
  
  However, in the 2011 Conference Finals, when Rose ran into a player (LeBron James) who could suffocate him defensively all over the court, he didn’t have a Plan B. He’s a good playmaker, as his career assist-to-turnover ratio (6.8 to 2.9) indicates, but he’s not quite on Williams or Paul’s level when it comes to dissecting defenses and creating easy shots for teammates. If LeBron switched on Williams in a seven-game playoff series, Williams’ team could run an endless barrage of pick-and-rolls and attack the ensuing defensive switches.
  
  Williams has been compared to Paul, meanwhile, since they were selected back-to-back in the 2005 draft. Paul has received more individual honors and Williams has advanced further in the playoffs (making the 2007 WCF with Utah), but their individual statistics are remarkably similar. In his first seven seasons, Williams averaged 17.6 points and 9.2 assists on 3.2 turnovers on 45.5% shooting; Paul averaged 18.8 points and 9.5 assists on 2.5 turnovers on 47.2% shooting.
  
  Paul’s mastery of the mid-range game gives him a slight edge in terms of overall offensive efficiency, and his high steals average has given him an edge in terms of advanced statistics. But while both have too much offensive responsibility to be lock-down defenders, in my mind, Williams’ defensive versatility makes him the more valuable player.
  
  At 6’0, 175, Paul is one of the smallest PG’s in the NBA. As a result, his teams have a natural ceiling in terms of how many minutes similar pint-sized guards (Darren Collison in New Orleans, Eric Bledsoe in Los Angelees) can be on the floor. Williams, on the other hand, has the size to slide over to shooting guard full-time, and he would have formed a dynamic backcourt tandem with either Collison or Bledsoe.
  
  But while point guards has become the league’s glamour position, there’s only so much even the league’s best at the position can do to lift their teams into playoff contention. As Williams and Steve Nash have found out in the last two seasons, a Hall of Fame PG on a team without any dynamic frontcourt players doesn’t even guarantee a playoff berth.
  
  NBA championships are won and lost at the front of the rim, the domain of giants, not 6’4 and under guards. The league is becoming more perimeter-oriented, but the new era is going to be defined by inside/outside 6’9 forwards like LeBron and Durant, not Williams and Paul or any of the next generation of PG’s (Westbrook, Rose, John Wall, Kyrie Irving).
  
  And just as Paul’s championship hopes with the Clippers depend on the development of Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan, Williams ability to compete at the highest level will depend on who is in his frontcourt. A Brooklyn team with Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace, Brook Lopez and Mirza Teletovic cannot offer him the defensive anchor necessary to win a ring. Without any more cap room after re-signing Williams, the only way the Nets are competing for a title in the next five years is if LeBron decides to play baseball.
  
  That’s why, no matter where the league’s best PG chose to sign, Dwight Howard is still the biggest domino on the board and the only player capable of shifting the balance of power away from a potential dynasty on South Beach.
  
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• Commander of Awesome

  

  http://basketball.realgm.com/article/222497/2012_13_NBA_Power_Rankings
  
  lol at #30
• Ironman92

  

  Commander of Awesome;1229824 wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/article/222497/2012_13_NBA_Power_Rankings
  
  lol at #30

  
  Someone has to be the worst. They'll put up a 16-66 season.
• Laley23

  

  Commander of Awesome;1229824 wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/article/222497/2012_13_NBA_Power_Rankings
  
  lol at #30

  Loved how it was grouped in tiers. Then the last tier was "The Bobcats"
• Ironman92

  

  Laley23;1230134 wrote:Loved how it was grouped in tiers. Then the last tier was "The Bobcats"

  
  The Bobkittens started off early beating the Bucks and then lost to the to be champion Heat on a last second crapper by Wade.
  
  Jordan is not good on most things that he has done off the court. Paul Silas led the energy of that team.
• 2quik4u

  

  
• like_that

  

  2quik4u;1231603 wrote:

  Obama has a limp hand shake. Weak.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  [h=3]Derrick Rose Unlikely To Return Until March[/h] Jul 23, 2012 11:28 AM EDT

  

  The Bulls are anticipating Derrick Rose to be out until March.
  Chicago's front office has made a series of cost-cutting moves as they anticipate the 12-13 season as one where they stand pat as Rose heals.
  
  Via K.C. Johnson/Chicago Tribune
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• wildcats20

  

  Might as well sit him down the whole season.
• robj55

  

  wildcats20;1231701 wrote:Might as well sit him down the whole season.

  yep, let Teague get a run
• Commander of Awesome

  

  I could see bringing him back for the last 10 games or so, but mostly agree. I don't see the Bulls making the playoffs, though the east is pretty terrible.
• robj55

  

  Commander of Awesome;1231715 wrote:I could see bringing him back for the last 10 games or so, but mostly agree. I don't see the Bulls making the playoffs, though the east is pretty terrible.

  They will still win and more than likely make the playoffs. They won plenty of games without him last year and are built for regular season success. They defend at a high level every night, play hard as hell and are well coached. I could see 45 wins still.
• friendfromlowry

  Actually, they brought this up on ESPN radio last week - ranking the eight best teams in the east this season. Assuming Howard stays put in Orlando for the season...I forget what their exact list looked like, but I think:
  
  1. Miami
  2. Boston
  
  
  3. Chicago
  4. Brooklyn
  5. Indiana
  6. Orlando
  7. New York
  8. Atlanta
  
  Personally, I don't think New York/Atlanta will be there. Maybe the Cavs could sneak into one of the last spots.
• Mulva

  

  I think the Knicks are going to be better than last year. As it stands at this moment...
  
  Miami, Boston, brooklyn, Indiana, ny, Chicago in my opinion.
  
  Some combo of Orlando, Philly, Atlanta, milwaukee probably get the last 2 spots, but Washington should be much improved. Toronto is a wildcard.