Tribe Spring Training 2012

• HitsRus

  

  Vlad Guerro... if even a shell of his former self...would be a welcome addotion to a team lacking anything that could strike fear into an opposing pitcher.
• hoops23

  

  I chuckled at this comment from that article:
  

  Dolans. We win...on the cheap. Maybe. Probably not though.

• Footwedge

  Tribe falls to 6-15 as Masterson gets rocked. Anyone have a silver lining? Anyone?
• IggyPride00

  

  It is just absolutely imperative this team get out to a fast start again.
  
  If we stumble coming out of the gates, inevitably it is going to be time to start talking about dealing off Ubaldo because he is a free agent in 2 years and you get a better package renting a guy for a year and a half instead of a half a year.
  
  I don't even want to think about that, but if we dig a huge hole early it is not going to be pretty around here as the farm system is depleted, and we have no money to spend.
  
  It seemed like our window was just opening last year, but I could see it just as easily closing if things turn south this year out of the gate like what happened in 08 when it seemed like we were poised to make some major waves.
• HitsRus

  

  Anyone have a silver lining? Anyone?

  I don't see how this team put itself in a better position to win with the offseason moves/nonmoves. I guess you could say the bullpen mafia survived intact. If we can get a lead late in the game...there is a good chance we can hold it. The offense is predicated on growth of young players,,,that means it will be very inconsistent. I don't know how you manage to overlook the lack of RH power hitter. The need was so obvious and glaring at the end of the season last year when the Tigers played matchup with their lefty relievers whenever the Tribe would get something going. They literally blew us out of the water in the final couple of series at the end of the year.
  ....and they've got better...we at best, just treaded water. More discouraing from a fan perspective, is we didn't even try.
• BR1986FB

  The only way I see this team possibly hanging with the Tigers is if EVERYONE stays healthy and a few have very nice seasons. The "healthy" part is highly unlikely with Hafner/Sizemore around.
  
  A few good points about the Tigers were made on 92.3 yesterday. It's highly unlikely that Verlander will duplicate last years numbers. They said that hitters hit .220-something against him when balls were put "in play" when his career average is in the .280-.290 when opposing hitter put the ball in play. They also mentioned that Fielder with his 40+ HR's may come back to Earth playing in a stadium that isn't exactly left handed hitter "friendly."
  
  Gives you one reason to not be total "doom & gloom" but I wouldn't be purchasing playoff tickets.
• royal_k

  

  I'm usually excited this time of the year.....can't wait for opening day. I've always been optimistic heading into a season. I definitely don't have the same excitement this year. I'll agree with BR in that I don't expect some of the Tigers to have the same numbers they did last year. But, their roster is so far ahead of ours, it will take a perfect storm for us to compete with them. And we've already have lost Grady for the first part of the season. Not to mention, our rotation has been terrible so far this spring. And they are supposed to be one of the strengths of the team.
• TBone14

  

  Footwedge;1128792 wrote:Tribe falls to 6-15 as Masterson gets rocked. Anyone have a silver lining? Anyone?

  It's Spring Training and it doesn't matter.
  
  They will be ready to go by Opening Day. I'm excited about the team this year. They will play hard every day.
• BR1986FB

  royal_k;1128928 wrote:I'm usually excited this time of the year.....can't wait for opening day. I've always been optimistic heading into a season. I definitely don't have the same excitement this year. I'll agree with BR in that I don't expect some of the Tigers to have the same numbers they did last year. But, their roster is so far ahead of ours, it will take a perfect storm for us to compete with them. And we've already have lost Grady for the first part of the season. Not to mention, our rotation has been terrible so far this spring. And they are supposed to be one of the strengths of the team.

  This analyst on 92.3 said that even if the Tigers were to sustain an injury to Fielder or Cabrera they would still likely be able to win the division. I agree.
• like_that

  

  Footwedge;1128792 wrote:Tribe falls to 6-15 as Masterson gets rocked. Anyone have a silver lining? Anyone?

  You are the same guy from last NBA season that said the Cavs will make the playoffs, because they had one of the top preseason records. Just like that NBA season, I hope the exact happens with your tribe post.
• Wooball

  

  Footwedge;1128792 wrote: Anyone have a silver lining? Anyone?

  I'll give it a shot. I understand we didn't make any significant moves in free agency, but I think this team will be better than last year. Positions that should be improved from last year:
  
  Right Field - 2011 Right Fielders combined to hit .246 w/ a .316 OBP. 15 HR and 64 RBI. From 2008-2010 Choo has hit .300 or better with an OBP near .400. Power numbers around 15HR and 90 RBI. A healthy Choo should equal a big production boost in right field
  
  Second Base - 2011 2B combined to hit .252/.296OBP/13HR/68RBI. If Kipnis plays 150 games at the same pace we saw in his limited time last year, those #'s rise to .272/29HR/80RBI/37doubles/20SB.
  
  Catcher - Santana's power numbers were pretty good last year, with 27 HR and 79 RBI and he got on base at a respectable clip, but his average was subpar. Also, not all of those 27 HR came while behind the plate, as Indians catchers only hit 18 HR. With Casey Kotchman solidifying 1B, production from behind the dish should rise.
  
  Left Field - This seems like a stretch, but last year's left fielders were awful. .233BA/.303OBP/7HR/37doubles/56RBI. Shelley Duncan is by no means a stud, but he had a very productive last month of the season. Throw in Ryan Spilborghs(who I'd expect to be the 4th OF) and this position can not possibly be as bad as last year. IF Duncan has a breakthrough and hits like he did in September for most of 2012, there would be a huge improvement in production.
  
  Utility - Jason Donald had a nice second half of 2012, and will be an upgrade to Adam Everett/Luis Valubuena/Cord Phelps.
  
  I'd expect SS and DH to have similar years. Center Field really will be a crap shoot, but if Brantley can play 130 or more games, we should see an improve over last years .248/.301OBP.
  
  First Base is an interesting situation. Casey Kotchman will not duplicate the 22HR and 44 doubles we got from there last year. But, he should improve the .247 BA and 153 Strikeouts. Matt Laporta accounted for approximately half of the HR, 2B and strikeouts, but with only the strikeouts coming in clutch situations. Overall, I think the offense will be better than last year, with the chance to be pretty good. If Masterson and Ubaldo can pitch up to their potential, the Indians can compete for the Division or extra wild card spot this fall.
• like_that

  

  Wooball;1128988 wrote:I'll give it a shot. I understand we didn't make any significant moves in free agency, but I think this team will be better than last year. Positions that should be improved from last year:
  
  Right Field - 2011 Right Fielders combined to hit .246 w/ a .316 OBP. 15 HR and 64 RBI. From 2008-2010 Choo has hit .300 or better with an OBP near .400. Power numbers around 15HR and 90 RBI. A healthy Choo should equal a big production boost in right field
  
  Second Base - 2011 2B combined to hit .252/.296OBP/13HR/68RBI. If Kipnis plays 150 games at the same pace we saw in his limited time last year, those #'s rise to .272/29HR/80RBI/37doubles/20SB.
  
  Catcher - Santana's power numbers were pretty good last year, with 27 HR and 79 RBI and he got on base at a respectable clip, but his average was subpar. Also, not all of those 27 HR came while behind the plate, as Indians catchers only hit 18 HR. With Casey Kotchman solidifying 1B, production from behind the dish should rise.
  
  Left Field - This seems like a stretch, but last year's left fielders were awful. .233BA/.303OBP/7HR/37doubles/56RBI. Shelley Duncan is by no means a stud, but he had a very productive last month of the season. Throw in Ryan Spilborghs(who I'd expect to be the 4th OF) and this position can not possibly be as bad as last year. IF Duncan has a breakthrough and hits like he did in September for most of 2012, there would be a huge improvement in production.
  
  Utility - Jason Donald had a nice second half of 2012, and will be an upgrade to Adam Everett/Luis Valubuena/Cord Phelps.
  
  I'd expect SS and DH to have similar years. Center Field really will be a crap shoot, but if Brantley can play 130 or more games, we should see an improve over last years .248/.301OBP.
  
  First Base is an interesting situation. Casey Kotchman will not duplicate the 22HR and 44 doubles we got from there last year. But, he should improve the .247 BA and 153 Strikeouts. Matt Laporta accounted for approximately half of the HR, 2B and strikeouts, but with only the strikeouts coming in clutch situations. Overall, I think the offense will be better than last year, with the chance to be pretty good. If Masterson and Ubaldo can pitch up to their potential, the Indians can compete for the Division or extra wild card spot this fall.

  Big IF. I can see Masterson pitching well, not Ubaldo.
• Laley23

  

  I'm terrified that we won't have a solid pitcher on the staff. Masterson I can easily see falling from ace numbers. Ubaldo I don't have faith in to begin with. Lowe, Tomlin, Gomez, erc just blah. This staff rides so much on Masterson, and I'm just afraid he will be closer to .500 with an era around 4.
• grodt

  

  While I understand the concern about Masterson because of his lack of track record, there isn't really anything in his peripherals that suggest he'll regress like that. Last year was the first year he had ever been a full-time starter and he was up to the task.
• TBone14

  

  Tomlin is efficient and throws strikes. He will never dominate but I don't see why he can't be a 14-15 win type guy. I'm excited to see him this year. That was the most innings he has ever thrown last year. He was great for the most of the year. Wore down late. Hopefully that experience will have him ready to be consistent for an entire season.
• IggyPride00

  

  Heard Chissenhall and LaPorta were shipped off to AAA today.
  
  Not surprised about LaPorta, as that experiment is likely over for good at this point.
  
  Chissenhall though I was a little surprised about even though he has struggled this spring. Hannahan is not that good that I would rather have him at third just because he defense is better. Chissenhall long term has a much higher ceiling, and I would like to see him getting those at bats as I think he will start to hit at some point.
  
  Off topic, but poor Bobby D. was making the rounds to all the local radio stations as it appears the Dolans are in major crisis mode after the Forbes report.
  
  They swear up and down that the report is wrong, but Forbes isn't like some obscure blog that is going to just print anything without some foundation in reality. It might not be correct to the dollar, but it probably isn't far off.
  
  There clearly is some embarrassment for the front office because they know how damaging a report like that can be when you made no off season moves to improve the roster at a time when you claim you are in the contention window. It is not an easy sell to the fans that you are pocketing more money than any owner in the league while doing nothing to improve the roster.
• hoops23

  

  Fuck the Dolans.
• BRF

  

  Good post, Iggy. Right on as far as I'm concerned.
  
  IMO, I would stick with Chisenhall.
• Footwedge

  like_that;1128983 wrote:You are the same guy from last NBA season that said the Cavs will make the playoffs, because they had one of the top preseason records. Just like that NBA season, I hope the exact happens with your tribe post.

  Yaeh...I was supposed to know that Gibson, Varajou, and Mo Williams would be injured for most of that season too, right? Not to mention the brass would trade starting guard D. West.
• Mulva

  

  Be patient. The front office has a plan.
• like_that

  

  Footwedge;1129408 wrote:Yaeh...I was supposed to know that Gibson, Varajou, and Mo Williams would be injured for most of that season too, right? Not to mention the brass would trade starting guard D. West.

  How about your 10 win prediction for the Browns this past season? LMAO.
• Footwedge

  like_that;1129440 wrote:How about your 10 win prediction for the Browns this past season? LMAO.

  You know more about what I post than I do. Go ahead and tell me....what did I have for dinner last July 4th? If I said the Browns would win 10 games, I can guarantee you it was tongue in cheek to piss off a Steeler fan.
  
  You should consider a new hobby there dude.
• HitsRus

  

  I am convinced after reading the article/interview mentioned earlier that Dolan prides himself as having an MLB franchise that is 'well run' from a financial standpoint. He seems to go to great lengths explaning how 'everybody' sees the Indians as the correct way to run a franchise.(from a business standpoint). And I can see his point how everything they made as profit as noted by Forbes is 'put back into the team'....in the form of an escalating payroll. If revenue from year 'A' to year 'B' stay the same...but in year 'B' the payroll increases due to built in salary raises, the profit from year 'A' is being 'put back into the team'. So if in year 'A' the Tribe makes a $30 mill profit...but in year 'B" the revenue stays the same but the payroll increases $20 million, you could say that the profit is being put back into the team in the form of player salaries. ( the team is also said to have spent several million to upgrade its farm system.). so I don't think Dolan is lying when he says this.
  I think the problem really comes from the question of whether running the team strictly from a business point of view, is conducive to actually fielding a championship team. One would think that the owner, would at some point, have to take a financial risk to put the team over the top. That seems to be the problem...that they won't take that risk even when the window of opportunty presents itself.
  Sure they want to win...but not so badly that they won't risk some of their money to take them to the next level.
  Hence we always seem to come in second place....whether it be in bidding for free agents that can help the team...or in the standings. The Dolans don't seem willing to take that extra step (that other teams are willing to do), that will give them a higher chance of success.
• HitsRus

  

  Don't get too excited about Vlad Guererro coming to Cleveland....Antonetti was just doing 'due diligence' in working himout at Vlad's request.
  http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120327&content_id=27668332&notebook_id=27668334&vkey=notebook_cle&c_id=cle
  
  It's not that we have a need for a guy who could hit from the right side. (Guererro hit .290 and 13 HR's with the Orioles last year.)
  It's not like we don't already have a DH who can't play the field.
• hoops23

  

  Mulva;1129409 wrote:Be patient. The front office has a plan.

  Yep.
  
  Almost compete for 1 season, blow it up and repeat in 4 years