2012 Cleveland Browns thread: AKA Pat Shurmur Memorial thread
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IggyPride00
Of course he is. While else would he have bought that house in Strongsville all those years ago?like_that;1284380 wrote:He is ready to take over for the Browns. -
like_that
The post was mostly in jest lol. Yeah whoever comes in, I really don't want them switching back to a 3-4. The defense has the personnel for a 4-3.BR1986FB;1284382 wrote:Cowher isn't coming here. The only way I'd want this guy is if he were flexible enough to stay with a 4-3. They are only a few pieces away, defensively, from being decent. -
like_that
Anyone else like the play of Craig Robertson? Could he possibly be one of Cleveland's first steal?
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BR1986FB
Yeah, Robertson has been a pleasant surprise.like_that;1284391 wrote:Anyone else like the play of Craig Robertson? Could he possibly be one of Cleveland's first steal? -
jmogAlso, to be honest I have been pleasantly surprised at how well Frostee Rucker has played, maybe its because Sheard is getting more attention, but either way Rucker has done well.
When Taylor is back, Rucker, Tayler, Rubin, Sheard is one heck of a DLine. -
BR1986FB
Not to mention Winn & Hughes rotating in to give those guys a breather. I'd like to see them add two more studs on the D-Line to give them a 7-8 deep rotation like the Giants/Lions have. THEN you'd probably see a consistent pass rush with guys staying fresh(er).jmog;1284403 wrote:Also, to be honest I have been pleasantly surprised at how well Frostee Rucker has played, maybe its because Sheard is getting more attention, but either way Rucker has done well.
When Taylor is back, Rucker, Tayler, Rubin, Sheard is one heck of a DLine. -
jmog
I think we have that with Winn/Hughes at DT, we need 1 or 2 more DEs to give good depth to Sheard/Rucker. Right now our backup DEs are not good.BR1986FB;1284409 wrote:Not to mention Winn & Hughes rotating in to give those guys a breather. I'd like to see them add two more studs on the D-Line to give them a 7-8 deep rotation like the Giants/Lions have. THEN you'd probably see a consistent pass rush with guys staying fresh(er). -
shook_17
Absolutely dude. He's been playing real good. What two interceptions now? And he's not even starting. I like him a lot more than I like fujita. I can't wait to see what johnson has to start opposite jackson.like_that;1284391 wrote:Anyone else like the play of Craig Robertson? Could he possibly be one of Cleveland's first steal?
I like jackson johnson robertson as our starters -
Commander of Awesome
No actually, I don't like the way he's played at all. I think we need to stick with Maivia /Erica Womangini.like_that;1284391 wrote:Anyone else like the play of Craig Robertson? Could he possibly be one of Cleveland's first steal? -
BR1986FB
Dayum....that avatar has made you surly. :laugh:Commander of Awesome;1284449 wrote:No actually, I don't like the way he's played at all. I think we need to stick with Maivia /Erica Womangini. -
Commander of Awesome
Well just showcasing how dumbass Mangina would play old ass washed up players over good young players (ala Jamal Lewis over Harrison) because he was a fucking idiot. Glad Jauron isn't letting Patty Boy get away with that bullshit.BR1986FB;1284453 wrote:Dayum....that avatar has made you surly. :laugh: -
jmogI know the team is still 0-4, and in my opinion most of that is coaching and just having younger players.
I believe Heckert should keep his job of the big 3. Shurmur has to go and Holmgren I just don't care much one way or the other.
Heckert has drafted some good players the last 2 years.
In 3 drafts, lets look at Heckert's "hits", "misses", and "yet to be seen".
2010
Hits-Haden (top 3 CB in the NFL), Ward (very good starting SS), Lauvao (starting G for a 5th rounder)
Misses-Hardesty (injury prone in college, injury prone in the NFL, biggest miss for Heckert so far due to trading up in the 2nd round), McCoy (not terrible for a 4th rounder), Asante/Geathers/Mitchell (all 6th/7th round flyers not on team anymore)
2011
Hits-Taylor (a monster at NT, great pick), Sheard (great 2nd round value), Little (drops, but emergency as a good #2 WR), Cameron (will be the TE of the future), Skrine (very good CB for a 5th rounder),
Too early to tell-Pinkston (not a great guard, but a starter for a 5th rounder), Hagg (started the season and was a 7th rounder, should be back in the mix eventually as he progresses)
Misses-Marecic (even for a 5th rounder, has been not good)
2012 (grain of salt as we have only seen them for 4 games)
Hits-Rich (I know its early, but he has been good when given the ball), Weeden (has shown very good poise and throwing ability, some rookie ball security issues that he needs to overcome), Swartz (has been bad in pass block but good in run block, if he can develop as a pass blocker will be a great bookend to go with JT), Hughes (has been very good in Taylor's absense), Benjamin (has been a good WR so far as a rookie, still needs to learn route running instead of just using his speed), Winn (has been dang good at DT especially being a 6th rounder)
Yet to be determined-Johnson (has shown streaks of playmaking ability at LB, but is still developing), Acho (IR his first season isn't a good sign though) , Wade (haven't seen much good or bad yet with him being mostly on STs)
Miss-Miller (I know we haven't seen much, but so far he has not impressed me when he is in at RT), Smelley (I know it was the 7th round, but Marecic is already here and we have like 10 TEs)
I know its just my opinion, but that's 13 hits, and only 8 misses with a few "not sure" guys. Many of the misses were late rounders as well. Only Hardest and McCoy were in the first 4 rounds.
Heckert has been good in making sure the top 4 rounds of players picked were good, which isn't easy (as evidence by the Browns drafts from 1999-2009). -
BR1986FBI wouldn't call Lauvao, Skrine & Little "hits" at this point. Guard is a huge weakness on this team and a guy you put on your "too early to tell" (Pinkston) is actually better than Lauvao, imo.
Lauvao & Pinky are the main reasons this team can't run the ball. They can't pull, hence we don't see many sweeps, and they get owned at the point of attack. Not to mention the bonehead penalties. -
OQB
Will James Michael Johnson be back this week?? -
jmog
I'll give you Lauvao and Pinky should be "too early" and can buy that, possibly Skrine as well. However, Skrine impressed me with the fact that he has beat out a long time veteran in Brown and hasn't given up a lot yet in the passing game.BR1986FB;1284470 wrote:I wouldn't call Lauvao, Skrine & Little "hits" at this point. Guard is a huge weakness on this team and a guy you put on your "too early to tell" (Pinkston) is actually better than Lauvao, imo.
Lauvao & Pinky are the main reasons this team can't run the ball. They can't pull, hence we don't see many sweeps, and they get owned at the point of attack. Not to mention the bonehead penalties.
Even with that Heckert has done very well since we are quabling over a few late round picks on whether they are hits or "wait to see". I leaned them towards hits because of the value, they are starting and were late picks. -
OQB
BR1986FB;1284470 wrote:I wouldn't call Lauvao, Skrine & Little "hits" at this point. Guard is a huge weakness on this team and a guy you put on your "too early to tell" (Pinkston) is actually better than Lauvao, imo.
Lauvao & Pinky are the main reasons this team can't run the ball. They can't pull, hence we don't see many sweeps, and they get owned at the point of attack. Not to mention the bonehead penalties.
When a 3 man rush gets pressure/sacks your QB.....you know that OL is a weakness on your team. -
OQB
jmog;1284499 wrote:I'll give you Lauvao and Pinky should be "too early" and can buy that, possibly Skrine as well. However, Skrine impressed me with the fact that he has beat out a long time veteran in Brown and hasn't given up a lot yet in the passing game.
Even with that Heckert has done very well since we are quabling over a few late round picks on whether they are hits or "wait to see". I leaned them towards hits because of the value, they are starting and were late picks.
They are starting because the roster isn't that good yet....still a work in progress. Those players would be backups on teams like the Giants, Falcons, Packers, etc....our roster is so thin they are starting for us. -
Commander of Awesome
I was just told Ward had Thumb Surgury. Anyone know any more specifics?
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BR1986FB
http://networkedblogs.com/CSzdACommander of Awesome;1284547 wrote:I was just told Ward had Thumb Surgury. Anyone know any more specifics? -
Crimson streak
I'm ok with letting heckert go. Especially if polian is coming in. His drafts have been ok but nothing special. I just can't wait to see patty boy gone.
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IggyPride00
If things continue the way they are, the win total will have gotten progressively worse in his 3 years on the job. That is a fireable offense for all 3.I believe Heckert should keep his job of the big 3.
St. Louis in my opinion is a case study in why Heckert should lose his job quite frankly.
They arguably looked worse than us last season, and did the smart thing in cutting bate with a losing head coach. They brought in a coach that knows what he's doing with a winning track record, made some key free agent signings (nothing outrageous, but added a pro bowler, depth and filled holes) drafted well and all of the sudden they have won as many games already as all last year and are looking like they are pointed in the right direction.
Corteland Finnegan has done wonders for that team's defense and brought them some attitude. He is a veteran that can help the team now, and help the young players along.
Heckert refuses to even consider using FA for that kind of purpose, which is retarded. On a young team, you need some veterans to help teach. You don't have to go the Mangini route and have a team full, but having some who can still play (not the Fujita type) is crucial to winning teams.
Seeing teams like Minnesota and St. Louis looking respectable again already just chaps my ass because only in Cleveland are we conditioned to believe it always has to take 20 years to turn it around. -
jmog
I know wins are what's important.IggyPride00;1284732 wrote:If things continue the way they are, the win total will have gotten progressively worse in his 3 years on the job. That is a fireable offense for all 3.
St. Louis in my opinion is a case study in why Heckert should lose his job quite frankly.
They arguably looked worse than us last season, and did the smart thing in cutting bate with a losing head coach. They brought in a coach that knows what he's doing with a winning track record, made some key free agent signings (nothing outrageous, but added a pro bowler, depth and filled holes) drafted well and all of the sudden they have won as many games already as all last year and are looking like they are pointed in the right direction.
Corteland Finnegan has done wonders for that team's defense and brought them some attitude. He is a veteran that can help the team now, and help the young players along.
Heckert refuses to even consider using FA for that kind of purpose, which is retarded. On a young team, you need some veterans to help teach. You don't have to go the Mangini route and have a team full, but having some who can still play (not the Fujita type) is crucial to winning teams.
Seeing teams like Minnesota and St. Louis looking respectable again already just chaps my ass because only in Cleveland are we conditioned to believe it always has to take 20 years to turn it around.
STL and MIN have had some 'luck' on their side so far.
Cleveland's offense is better than STL and only 10 yards per game less than MIN.
So, the side of the ball we were all worried about going into the season is just as good or better than those two teams.
Now, on defense, those two teams are statistically much better than we are so far even with our two best defenders out (Haden/Taylor).
On top of that the Browns have played BAL (2), PHI (5), BUF (11), and CIN (10). 4 top 10 offenses and 1 just outside of the top 10.
MIN has played JAC (32), IND (16), SF (18), and DET (6) only 1 team in the top half of the league in terms of offense.
STL has played DET (6), WAS (3), CHI (26), and SEA (29) only 2 teams in the top half of the league and the other two at the bottom.
The schedule the Browns have had so far has been tough, 3 3-1 teams and a 2-2 team so their opponents record is 11-5. MIN's opponents record is 6-10 while STL's is 7-8.
I'm not saying I don't agree with you, just staying that the deeper you look at those 3 teams so far, the closer they still look.
I'm also not anywhere near an apologist, in past seasons (especially last year) I have chastised nearly everything about the Browns save for JT and some of the defense.
I'm just saying that this team has played 3 playoff caliber and 1 average (BUF) teams right down to the wire.
With the schedule they have left they have 4 easily winnable games (IND, OAK, KC, WAS) and they will surprise at least 1 or 2 teams.
I am sticking with my original 6-10 record prediction (I originally said with a possibility of 7-9, but that would have required one of the last 4 wins). -
sleeper
If the browns win more than 1 game I'll be impressed. This team is simply just not good. -
Mulva
Not to mention he got some of the rounds wrong. Lauvao was round 3, not 5, and one of the worst starting guards in the league. Big miss.BR1986FB;1284470 wrote:I wouldn't call Lauvao, Skrine & Little "hits" at this point. Guard is a huge weakness on this team and a guy you put on your "too early to tell" (Pinkston) is actually better than Lauvao, imo.
Lauvao & Pinky are the main reasons this team can't run the ball. They can't pull, hence we don't see many sweeps, and they get owned at the point of attack. Not to mention the bonehead penalties.