Cavs/Bulls 4: The Death of Noah

• fiver

  Flat out domination and I love it. Jamison looking good. Let's keep it rollin baby!
• fiver

  Classy move by coach by asking big z if he wants to play in a blowout.
• Fabio

  Ball game. Way to go Cavs.
• KR1245

  

  Second half defense was outstanding. Once you take away Rose ability to get to the rim you take away the Bulls offense. Cavs should come out fired up on Tuesday night and put this thing away.
• BR1986FB

  Nice! Way to kick em' in the teeth, boys.
• Footwedge

  Parker team plus 21 points when on the court.
  Jamison team plus 33 points when on the court.
  O'Neal team plus 7 points when on the court.
  James team plus 29 points when on the court.
  Williams team plus 25 points when on the court.
  Veragao team plus 18 points when on the court.
  
  Any questions Devil?
• Footwedge

  SQ_Crazies wrote: How has Noah been so dominant without Shaq on the floor?

  Parker team plus 21 points when on the court.
  Jamison team plus 33 points when on the court.
  O'Neal team plus 7 points when on the court.
  James team plus 29 points when on the court.
  Williams team plus 25 points when on the court.
  Veragao team plus 18 points when on the court.
  
  Any other questions?
• SQ_Crazies

  

  How do you expect him to be in the +20's like the other guys when he plays 17 minutes.
  
  Varejao didn't play well at all, was +14.
  
  Like I've always tried to tell you, +/- is a pointless stat on a one game basis. Noah had 21 and 20 and was -23. What does that say about your little theory?
• sportswizuhrd

  Veragao?
  
  So if I went by plus/minus, I can say that Jamison outplayed LeBron today. I wouldn't because I don't like lying.
• just_a_swimmer

  

  just_a_swimmer wrote: I hope so. I would like to see a double digit total domination game today.
  
  Go Cavs

  Ask and ye shall receive. Now that's what I am talking about.
  
  Go Cavs
• Mr. 300

  

  A huge statement made in this game today. Loved every minute of it.
• just_a_swimmer

  

  I went back and read all the posts on this thread. So glad I watched the game instead of posting and watching.
  Wedge: You had been so much better. :huh: Shaq is old yes but Shaq will help us win a championship. Why you talking crap, you've watched all year. Why post stupid?
  Devil: What's the point?
  
  These threads would be so much better if we could just post about the game at hand instead of what may happen in the future.
  
  I say get JJ on the floor. He helped get us here and he should be getting minutes against these young bulls. I think you will see him just as much in game 5.
• devil1197

  The point is to actually point out false statements that are made against Cavalier players and the team in general. To even think that Cleveland will be able to slow Howard without Shaq is laughable and a slap in the face to our organization.
  
  For a guy that someone thought shouldn't even sniff playoff playing time, Jamison sure did look good tonight.
  
  24 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assits. Any questions?
• Footwedge

  just_a_swimmer wrote: Wedge: You had been so much better. :huh: Shaq is old yes but Shaq will help us win a championship. Why you talking crap, you've watched all year. Why post stupid?

  I'm not allowed to offer a dissenting view? Why is that? I am rooting for the Cavs as hard as anyone here. And I've been rooting for them for a lot longer than anyone here.
  
  Shaq is not helping the team win. It's that's not an opinion, it;s what the numbers show in every box score. That's why Brownie doesn't play him much anymore.
  
  I'm just a little tired of one poster here that has to tell everybody why we got Shaq on every single thread. The kid is a pompous ass...who thinks he's the general manager and the coach of both the Browns and the Cavaliers.
  
  If you think I'm the only one that thinks Shaq is over the hill and hurting the team's chances, then you're sadly mistaken.
  
  The attempted perception hoisted by this poster is that somehow, Shaq will magically play better at both ends of the court when the Cavs play Orlando or the Lakers. Well, it doesn't work that way.
  
  I'm happy that both LrBron amd Brownie see it the same way that I do...becuase in doing so, the Cavs will have the best chance to win a title.
• RedBlackAttack

  

  Fun game to watch (from our perspective, at least). That was one of the most refined games that I have seen the Cavs play this year with the exception of the free throw line. The defense was on-point from about middle of the second quarter onward.
  
  This series has gone almost exactly as I had envisioned. We win two semi-close games to start it, Chicago comes back and wins a tight one at home, the Cavs re-assert their superiority in Game 4 and really beat the life out of the United Center.
  
  Game 5 will not be particularly close, imo. The Bulls had their spirit broken today.
  
  Hey... Is Skyhook still around, out of curiosity?
• Footwedge

  devil1197 wrote: The point is to actually point out false statements that are made against Cavalier players and the team in general. To even think that Cleveland will be able to slow Howard without Shaq is laughable and a slap in the face to our organization.
  

  You are an idiot. I don't post false statements, I post my opinions and I back them up with statistical facts. If you don't like it, too bad.
  
  You somehow think that Shaq is going to do a 180 when we play Howard and the Magic?
  
  Shaq will nevr play more than 18 minutes a game against the Magic. He's too old and slow. Howard will eat his lunch at both ends of the court.
• devil1197

  Shaq won't have to do a 180, he has already proven to slow Howard and to score on him also.
  
  Howard's statistics against a Cleveland team with Shaq this year speak volumes compared to the Howard stats of the 2009 playoffs. Once again, he has proved to be able to guard Howard 1 on 1 without little to no help. Howard hasn't had a game where he went off like the 2009 playoffs yet against Shaq this year.
  
  I'll remember that 18 mpg remark and I'll make sure to hammer every post you make during the Orlando series with it.
  
  Sorry, but this is another Jamison agrument that I'll win in the end. Just got to wait a couple more weeks to prove you wrong like Jamison did.
• Footwedge

  SQ_Crazies wrote: How do you expect him to be in the +20's like the other guys when he plays 17 minutes.
  
  Varejao didn't play well at all, was +14.
  
  Like I've always tried to tell you, +/- is a pointless stat on a one game basis. Noah had 21 and 20 and was -23. What does that say about your little theory?

  We are not talking about only one game here Square. We are talking about every game this series...and every game during the regular series. I guarantee you that the MAJORITY of cav fans are disappointed in Shaq's performance for the year, and more importantly the playoffs to date.
  
  I guess that LBJ doen't know what he's talking about either, eh?
• se-alum

  

  SQ_Crazies wrote: How do you expect him to be in the +20's like the other guys when he plays 17 minutes.
  
  Varejao didn't play well at all, was +14.
  
  Like I've always tried to tell you, +/- is a pointless stat on a one game basis. Noah had 21 and 20 and was -23. What does that say about your little theory?

  This is all that needs to be said about the ridiculous +/- stat.
• Footwedge

  sportswizuhrd wrote: Veragao?
  
  So if I went by plus/minus, I can say that Jamison outplayed LeBron today. I wouldn't because I don't like lying.

  I'll put you in the column that thinks Shaq is playing well. Congrats...you are in a teeny tiny minority.
• RedBlackAttack

  

  Shaq was brought to Cleveland with Orlando in mind... Let's face it. Minimal production against the Bulls isn't much of a surprise, because they really don't have a real center for him to match up with. Shaq will be hugely important against the Magic, if that series comes off. His ability to go against Howard without forcing us to send an extra defender could be the difference in the series. He doesn't have to outplay Howard. All he has to do is make life a little more difficult for him and maybe force him into some early foul trouble.
  
  Orlando's success against Cleveland last year was based around the fact that the Cavs had no one on the roster who could even come close to matching up with Howard. This meant that we had to have two and three defenders around the basket at all times to make up for the times when Z was driven past or Varejao was overpowered. Thus, they had shooters wide open on the perimeter.
  
  When we didn't send those extra defenders and we stayed at home on their deadly shooters, Howard killed us. That will not happen this year. I'm not predicting an absolute victory over them if it is the ECF matchup, because Orlando is very good. But, they will not make it look as easy as they did last year. They will have to beat the Cavs by outplaying them, not by exploiting those huge matchup problems.
• devil1197

  +/- is worthless.
  
  The first two games against Orlando this year Shaq had a -2 and +2. But Howard averaged 15 points and 5 fouls. Shaq was able to take him out of the game but that won't show up in the +/-.
  
  The third game Shaq went 9/10 for 20 points but only had a +1. He went toe to toe with Howard who had 22 points in 13 more minutes that Shaq.
  
  The Diesel has shown the ability to go against Howard one on one and not let him go off. Howard score more than 22 points (highest this season against Cleveland) five times against Cleveland in the 09 playoffs (30, 24, 27, 24, 40). That won't happen consistently on Shaq's watch. Howard will be in foul trouble multiple games.
  
  But by all means Shaq had nothing to do with Howard not dominating big down low this year.
• Footwedge

  devil1197 wrote: Shaq won't have to do a 180, he has already proven to slow Howard and to score on him also.
  
  Howard's statistics against a Cleveland team with Shaq this year speak volumes compared to the Howard stats of the 2009 playoffs. Once again, he has proved to be able to guard Howard 1 on 1 without little to no help. Howard hasn't had a game where he went off like the 2009 playoffs yet against Shaq this year.
  
  I'll remember that 18 mpg remark and I'll make sure to hammer every post you make during the Orlando series with it.
  
  Sorry, but this is another Jamison agrument that I'll win in the end. Just got to wait a couple more weeks to prove you wrong like Jamison did.

  Hey asshole. i've already said what i want to say about jamison. Why do you want to continue to bring him up?
  
  We are talking about the guy in the center, who has under performed all season.
  
  The Cavs will not play Shaq more than 15-18 a game versus Orlando. And either the Cavs double team him, or Howard will light his ass up. Howard is a lot bigger and just as fact as Noah. Noah has eaten Shaq's lunch.
  
  I watched Hickson against Howard, and Hickson is a much better all around defender.
  
  And on the offensive end, our team is horrible dumping the ball down low to Shaq. If you can't read a box score, or you haven't seen this all year with your own eyes, then you are blind.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  Footwedge wrote: Shaq is not helping the team win. It's that's not an opinion, it;s what the numbers show in every box score.

  If you're such a plus minus guy and Shaq is on the plus side in a win, how is he not helping the team win? YOU sir are the idiot.
• ytownfootball

  

  Footwedge wrote: I am rooting for the Cavs as hard as anyone here. And I've been rooting for them for a lot longer than anyone here.
  
  

  No you haven't.
  
  I don't care what your opinion is in regards to how things have gone or how they're going to go wedge, you're a fan like anyone else. Opinions differ. So what.
  
  But you need reminded of things from time to time, like the All-Star game a short couple years ago when Shaq dominated everyone on the floor, passes between legs etc...will Shaq turn it up when he's called upon to do what he was brought here to do? I don't know, but I'd bet my ass he does. He knows why he was brought on board, and it wasn't to make a statement on his value as a +/- during games of little importance.