ISIS

• HitsRus

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1706147 wrote:Examples of this please?
  Catchy, but not accurate. Conflates a lot of things.

  Oh, I think there are plenty of examples that any student of history can cite. Moreover, it is just a fundamental understanding of human nature. The aggressive prey on the vulnerable not the strong. Nobody wins a negotiation by giving away an advantage. The only thing that I disagree with in the statement "Peace thru strength"...is that it should read "peace thru strength and strength of will".
• QuakerOats

  ptown_trojans_1;1706179 wrote:The fall of the USSR goes all the way back to George Kennan and the policy of containment and NSC-68.
  Reagan did a nice push, but he also really nearly killed us all in the period of 1981-1983.
  Also, it was Carter, during the FY1980 Defense budget start started the push on defense.
  
  And, the rise of terrorism for Obama? Huh? What the hell does that mean? That makes no logical sense when you look at the rise and fall of terrorism as a whole.
  Also, OBL dead, and the rise of drone strikes to take out terrorism leaders does not line up to your rhetoric.
  Typical Quaker.

  
  As I indicated, it was strength that ultimately brought down the USSR. Thank you.
  
  As for the recent rise in terrorism, I presume we should expect it especially given that the president has difficulty acknowledging it; he underestimates it, and lacks the ability to deal with it. Appeasement is not the answer, as is becoming so readily apparent.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  QuakerOats;1706185 wrote:As I indicated, it was strength that ultimately brought down the USSR. Thank you.
  
  As for the recent rise in terrorism, I presume we should expect it especially given that the president has difficulty acknowledging it; he underestimates it, and lacks the ability to deal with it. Appeasement is not the answer, as is becoming so readily apparent.

  Not strength.
  If it was strength, we would all be dead, or red by now. It was patience and blind luck.
  
  
  And, where is appeasement for Obama? I am missing that one. What is he giving away for nothing?
• HitsRus

  

  The USSR would have fallen with or without Reagan. It was a failed state destined for destruction.

  That's it?... you are going with destiny? LOL. Maybe the USSR falls, but would it have happened the same way?
  Would WWII have been the same if Churchill was in charge instead of Chamberlain?
  
  Are you going with ....the US economy was destined to recover with or without Obama?
  
  I'd say, the USSR falls, but not in the same way and maybe with not so favorable an outcome. I'd say, the U.S. economy recovers but it happens a lot quicker under different leadership.
  To ignore the importance of leadership in shaping events is folly.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  HitsRus;1706188 wrote:That's it?... you are going with destiny? LOL. Maybe the USSR falls, but would it have happened the same way?
  Would WWII have been the same if Churchill was in charge instead of Chamberlain?
  
  Are you going with ....the US economy was destined to recover with or without Obama?
  
  I'd say, the USSR falls, but not in the same way and maybe with not so favorable an outcome. I'd say, the U.S. economy recovers but it happens a lot quicker under different leadership.
  To ignore the importance of leadership in shaping events is folly.

  It didn't fall with Reagan.
  It fell when HW Bush was in office btw.
  Most people forget that.
  December 25, 1991.
• QuakerOats

  ptown_trojans_1;1706187 wrote:Not strength.
  If it was strength, we would all be dead, or red by now. It was patience and blind luck.
  

  Incorrect.
  
  And how about JFK and the Cuban missile crisis ---- did weakness or strength carry the day?
• QuakerOats

  HitsRus;1706188 wrote: To ignore the importance of leadership in shaping events is folly.

  
  Thank you.
• QuakerOats

  WHAT'S THE SECRET TO DEFEATING THE ISLAMIC STATE, and stopping the ISIS slaughter of innocents? It's a jobs program, State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf suggests, saying the US 'cannot win this war by killing' ISIS terrorists, but instead should work to build up regional economies 'so they can have job opportunities'.
  
  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/17/state-department-spokeswoman-floats-jobs-as-answer-to-isis/
  
  
  
  There it is, the solution at last.
• Cleveland Buck

  

  The Soviet Union collapsed because their economic system impoverished millions and could not be sustained. At least Reagan wasn't dumb enough to attack them though, I'll give him credit for that.
  
  As for radical Islam, you would think that after killing millions of people in the Middle East over decades, overthrowing governments, installing brutal dictators, and funding, arming, and recruiting for these groups, people would understand by now that meddling over there where we don't belong only makes the problem worse. There would be no ISIS if not for the U.S. government. There would be no Al Qaeda. There would be Arab states over there that fight and bicker with one another, but that isn't at all our business to worry about or but in.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  QuakerOats;1706190 wrote:Incorrect.
  
  And how about JFK and the Cuban missile crisis ---- did weakness or strength carry the day?

  Certainly not strength. If it was strength, we would have invaded Cuba and started a nuclear war.
  Funny how you bring that one up. Patience and a side deal for old obsolete missiles in Turkey helped solve the crisis.
  

  QuakerOats;1706192 wrote:WHAT'S THE SECRET TO DEFEATING THE ISLAMIC STATE, and stopping the ISIS slaughter of innocents? It's a jobs program, State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf suggests, saying the US 'cannot win this war by killing' ISIS terrorists, but instead should work to build up regional economies 'so they can have job opportunities'.
  
  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/17/state-department-spokeswoman-floats-jobs-as-answer-to-isis/
  
  
  
  There it is, the solution at last.

  To a certain extend that is right. Think about it. The last few attacks, Paris and Denmark, have been members of society that have been disillusioned about the current state. They are easy prey ISIS/ ISIL.
  You bring those people back into the fold into society, and then poof, that way to recruit dries up.
  It is counter-terrorism 101.
• thavoice

  ptown_trojans_1;1706195 wrote:Certainly not strength. If it was strength, we would have invaded Cuba and started a nuclear war.
  Funny how you bring that one up. Patience and a side deal for old obsolete missiles in Turkey helped solve the crisis.
  
  
  
  To a certain extend that is right. Think about it. The last few attacks, Paris and Denmark, have been members of society that have been disillusioned about the current state. They are easy prey ISIS/ ISIL.
  You bring those people back into the fold into society, and then poof, that way to recruit dries up.
  It is counter-terrorism 101.

  No different than any jobs program stateside to help eliminate crime in the US, most of which is done by the poorer people. No matter what sort of programs that are created here for people to get out of poverty, making their own $$ and a good sum of it, we will always have a certain element that will always be that way.
  
  No different than if any certain jobs program was created in other countries. No matter what is created you will still have those taking that route.
• Cleveland Buck

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1706195 wrote: Funny how you bring that one up. Patience and a side deal for old obsolete missiles in Turkey helped solve the crisis.

  I remember Ron Paul making this point in a Republican debate in the past. If that was any indication, you are banging your head against a brick wall.
• QuakerOats

  P-town --- you are confusing what I mean by strength with the march to war and the use of force. If you are truly strong, and committed, you quite often do not have to resort to actual war.
  
  Compare that to operating from a position of weakness, or even a perception of weakness etc....
  
  
  Good luck.
• QuakerOats

  Islamic State militants burn to death 45 people in western Iraqi town of al-Baghdadi -- not far from air base housing 400 US Marines -- local police chief tells the BBC.
  
  More on this story: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/17/isis-reportedly-burns-alive-45-people-in-western-iraqi-town/
• Midstate01

  

  Fucking sick fucks. I hate ISIS. Hopefully they weren't the kids they had threatened to burn earlier.
• steubbigred

  ptown_trojans_1;1706189 wrote:It didn't fall with Reagan.
  It fell when HW Bush was in office btw.
  Most people forget that.
  December 25, 1991.

  and nazi germany and imperial japan did not fall under the leadership of president roosevelt either .....cmon man
• steubbigred

  this is getting way out of hand and we need a war time president right fucking now ......this is one time i wish reagan was in office .....
• majorspark

  

  Cleveland Buck;1706194 wrote:There would be no ISIS if not for the U.S. government. There would be no Al Qaeda. There would be Arab states over there that fight and bicker with one another, but that isn't at all our business to worry about or but in.

  Come on you know better. These types of folks have been at this for centuries long before the US government existed. Leading conquests into North Africa, Southern Europe, West Asia. Raping and pillaging in the name of their god. They just went by different names back then. The US as a young fledgling nation barely able to protect its own borders just wanting to engage in peaceful trade with other nations had to deal with these types. I know they only fight among themselves and we can just carry on with business. History has proven otherwise. And all this before anyone knew about that black stuff hidden under the sand over there.
• majorspark

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1706195 wrote:To a certain extend that is right. Think about it. The last few attacks, Paris and Denmark, have been members of society that have been disillusioned about the current state.

  These people are not killing because they do not have good jobs. If they are going to resort to these methods because they are disillusioned about the current state why not attack government institutions, big corporate entities, or other symbols of wealth and power. They are killing people who draw derogatory pictures of a man that died centuries ago or because someone else holds a certain religious belief.
  

  ptown_trojans_1;1706195 wrote:They are easy prey ISIS/ ISIL. You bring those people back into the fold into society, and then poof, that way to recruit dries up.
  It is counter-terrorism 101.

  As for ISIS they are actively recruiting people with their propaganda videos of beheading and now burning people alive in a fucking cage. The videos are meant to be recruiting tools to draw the most evil and depraved to their state. Why do you think these professionally made videos are getting more and more heinous? They are looking for the worst of the worst. And what they are doing to women and young girls off camera is awful. These people need not be brought back into the fold but removed from the face of the earth for good. You think anyone who is joining their ranks at this point has not seen one of these videos is not aware of the cause they are serving? Those 21 Coptic Christians beheaded in Libya were men just looking for a good job to support their families back home. If you think this is about jobs and lack of opportunity these Coptic Christians should have been heralded as fellow compatriots.
  
  Time for the good nations of the earth to find their balls and root these vermin out where they have gathered and eliminate them. A coalition needs to be formed ideally with primarily Arab armies along with the west to kill and destroy them. If the good Arab nations can not find their balls then so be it. Maybe they will just have to accept western armies operating in parts of their sandbox. At some point this will have to be dealt with and its likely not going to happen through the UN as it will be rendered impotent by the Russians and to a lesser extent the Chinese who see the enemy of their enemy as their tool.
• Glory Days

  

  Cleveland Buck;1706194 wrote:The Soviet Union collapsed because their economic system impoverished millions and could not be sustained.

  yeah and western sanctions had nothing to do with that.....:rolleyes:
• Glory Days

  

  majorspark;1706230 wrote:These people are not killing because they do not have good jobs. If they are going to resort to these methods because they are disillusioned about the current state why not attack government institutions, big corporate entities, or other symbols of wealth and power. They are killing people who draw derogatory pictures of a man that died centuries ago or because someone else holds a certain religious belief.
  
  
  
  As for ISIS they are actively recruiting people with their propaganda videos of beheading and now burning people alive in a fucking cage. The videos are meant to be recruiting tools to draw the most evil and depraved to their state. Why do you think these professionally made videos are getting more and more heinous? They are looking for the worst of the worst. And what they are doing to women and young girls off camera is awful. These people need not be brought back into the fold but removed from the face of the earth for good. You think anyone who is joining their ranks at this point has not seen one of these videos is not aware of the cause they are serving? Those 21 Coptic Christians beheaded in Libya were men just looking for a good job to support their families back home. If you think this is about jobs and lack of opportunity these Coptic Christians should have been heralded as fellow compatriots.
  
  Time for the good nations of the earth to find their balls and root these vermin out where they have gathered and eliminate them. A coalition needs to be formed ideally with primarily Arab armies along with the west to kill and destroy them. If the good Arab nations can not find their balls then so be it. Maybe they will just have to accept western armies operating in parts of their sandbox. At some point this will have to be dealt with and its likely not going to happen through the UN as it will be rendered impotent by the Russians and to a lesser extent the Chinese who see the enemy of their enemy as their tool.

  This. ISIS=Evil. Good must destroy evil.
• steubbigred

  we have some dangerous left side thinking on this thread . we better fight or we will all fall under the sword.. these people are the devils rejects .. they are pure evil ..... at this point in time we are in serious trouble because we do not have a war time president .. he tries to do good and he wanted to end all this mess that bush left ,but he pulled out to fast in iraq and left a vacuum for this pure evil... we need strong military and presidential leadership now more than ever .. these devils want to start world war 3 and they are achieving the goal... it is already started ... these devils want muslims and christians and all other faiths to face off for the final battle ...
• BoatShoes

  majorspark;1706230 wrote:These people are not killing because they do not have good jobs.

  You have missed the point. After World War I the Carthaginian Peace imposed on Germany by the Allies, in conjunction with the Fixed Exchange and deflationary policy implemented by Heinrich Bruning, caused widespread suffering and mass unemployment for the German people. As a result, the people threw out the moderate social democrats and turned to the radical ideas of the communists and the fascists with the fascists eventually winning out and turning an otherwise normal nation of people just like you and me in any other era into a murderous war machine.
  
  The social alienation that comes from mass unemployment and economic dislocation allows otherwise normal human beings to be seduced by the false promises and hopes of false prophets.
  
  But you're right. Let's just start rounding up the brown people and waive the American flag.
  
  I wonder what a world might be like where the people who lust for war so bad might care half as much about all of the innocent people killed on our own soil in similar fashion.
  
  28 innocent American children killed by a nut case in America. Do Nothing Cus Muh Freedom.
  
  21 innocents killed in a far away land by nut cases. Write blank checks, ignore the U.N., find the balls and send young Americans to die doing so cus muh false manichaean worldview.
• BoatShoes

  steubbigred;1706259 wrote:we have some dangerous left side thinking on this thread . we better fight or we will all fall under the sword.. these people are the devils rejects .. they are pure evil ..... at this point in time we are in serious trouble because we do not have a war time president .. he tries to do good and he wanted to end all this mess that bush left ,but he pulled out to fast in iraq and left a vacuum for this pure evil... we need strong military and presidential leadership now more than ever .. these devils want to start world war 3 and they are achieving the goal... it is already started ... these devils want muslims and christians and all other faiths to face off for the final battle ...

  And this is what it all comes down to...people projecting their fairy tales onto real world atrocities of the human condition.
• BoatShoes

  ptown_trojans_1;1706195 wrote:Certainly not strength. If it was strength, we would have invaded Cuba and started a nuclear war.
  Funny how you bring that one up. Patience and a side deal for old obsolete missiles in Turkey helped solve the crisis.
  
  
  
  To a certain extend that is right. Think about it. The last few attacks, Paris and Denmark, have been members of society that have been disillusioned about the current state. They are easy prey ISIS/ ISIL.
  You bring those people back into the fold into society, and then poof, that way to recruit dries up.
  It is counter-terrorism 101.

  P-town, you're not understanding. These people are intrinsically evil just like the Japanese and the Germans.