A Cruel Prank

• HelloAgain

  HitsRus;1652266 wrote:^^^^and what else should/could they have. You can't make up new laws to satisfy vigilante justice.

  If you cause another person to have unwanted contact with a bodily fluid that may transmit disease, you can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon in Ohio. This is most commonly used for spitting blood and throwing semen, but urine and feces can certainly transmit disease as well.
  
  So they absolutely would not have to make up a new law to justify a significantly more serious charge here. And I question why they aren't.
• BRF

  

  ^^^^^ I agree with this.
  
  
  On a lighter note:
  

  Belly35;1651948 wrote:Cost me a corn beef sandwich, a golf game and a visit to a hospital, well worth the time and friendship.

  Next time we meet, I'll take a corn beef sandwich with stadium mustard.
• Con_Alma

  HelloAgain;1652440 wrote:If you cause another person to have unwanted contact with a bodily fluid that may transmit disease, you can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon in Ohio. This is most commonly used for spitting blood and throwing semen, but urine and feces can certainly transmit disease as well.
  
  So they absolutely would not have to make up a new law to justify a significantly more serious charge here. And I question why they aren't.

  Do we know yet that they aren't?
• HelloAgain

  Con_Alma;1652465 wrote:Do we know yet that they aren't?

  ...
  

  Con_Alma;1652257 wrote:It sounds like misdemeanor assault and disorderly conduct is all the police have.

• Con_Alma

  So we don't know. My opinion of what it sounds like isn't an official prosecutor's actions. The police are taking their time and trying to be very meticulous with this before passing off their investigation to the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor. It's the Prosecutor that will determine what the charges will be.
• HelloAgain

  Con_Alma;1652481 wrote:My opinion of what it sounds like

  Your opinion was misinformed in that case. A comprehensive breakdown of Ohio laws can be found here: http://codes.ohio.gov/
• HitsRus

  

  If you cause another person to have unwanted contact with a bodily fluid that may transmit disease, you can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon in Ohio. This is most commonly used for spitting blood and throwing semen, but urine and feces can certainly transmit disease as well.
  
  So they absolutely would not have to make up a new law to justify a significantly more serious charge here. And I question why they aren't.

  A link here would help.
  I'm not sure that body fluids that are not infected with a deadly pathogen are "deadly weapons".... and I don't think you need "the body fluids" to prove assault if what they did fits the definition.
  
  What these kids did was despicable, but we really don't need to stretch or reinterpret laws trying to nail these kids to the wall for what would have passed as a fraternity hazing/initiation ritual 50 years ago. Juvenile law is about appropriately punishing and counseling juveniles and their mistakes so that they can grow up productive members of society without having to carry an excessive lifelong burden created by that mistake. This applies even to far worse crimes than this. Other things factor into this, repeat offender? ...otherwise good record, etc. None of this we know, so we have to allow the authorities to do their job according to law.
• Con_Alma

  HelloAgain;1652488 wrote:Your opinion was misinformed in that case. A comprehensive breakdown of Ohio laws can be found here: http://codes.ohio.gov/

  What the laws are don't equate to what a prosecutor will charge them with based on the information provided to him....you and I don't know what the information is that will be turned over to him.
• Con_Alma

  HitsRus;1652519 wrote: ...otherwise good record, etc. None of this we know, so we have to allow the authorities to do their job according to law.

  Agreed.
• Tiernan

  Starting to smell like cover up or at most slap-on-the-wrist to me.
• Dr Winston O'Boogie

  

  There are some facts coming out about this that don't smell right. They are:
  - The mother of the victim went to the media first
  - This incident happened weeks before it was reported
  - The boy is mildly autistic and is a full participant in school, extracurricular activities and sports
  - The boy has been a part of this group of "friends" for awhile. He has not been a follower of them so much as a part of them. He continued to hang with them right up until his mother reported the incident.
  - The family has actively solicited and accepted donations. Why there is a need for money here when no one was injured, no property was damaged, etc is VERY suspicious.
  
  This story may be exactly what was originally reported. However the vigilante rage and the people tripping over each other to coordinate peace marches, "unity shows", etc is bothersome.
  
  I am beginning to feel like I rushed to judgement without considering the fact that these kids could be just very stupid - perhaps trying to imitate a Jackass stunt or something. Maybe they have done all sorts of stupid crap like this to each other and we don't have context.
  
  Anyway, the actions of the boy's family have given me great pause.
• jmog

  Dr Winston O'Boogie;1652560 wrote:There are some facts coming out about this that don't smell right. They are:
  - The mother of the victim went to the media first
  - This incident happened weeks before it was reported
  - The boy is mildly autistic and is a full participant in school, extracurricular activities and sports
  - The boy has been a part of this group of "friends" for awhile. He has not been a follower of them so much as a part of them. He continued to hang with them right up until his mother reported the incident.
  - The family has actively solicited and accepted donations. Why there is a need for money here when no one was injured, no property was damaged, etc is VERY suspicious.
  
  This story may be exactly what was originally reported. However the vigilante rage and the people tripping over each other to coordinate peace marches, "unity shows", etc is bothersome.
  
  I am beginning to feel like I rushed to judgement without considering the fact that these kids could be just very stupid - perhaps trying to imitate a Jackass stunt or something. Maybe they have done all sorts of stupid crap like this to each other and we don't have context.
  
  Anyway, the actions of the boy's family have given me great pause.

  You maybe correct, but let me give you some insight as a parent of a mildly autistic child who participates fully in school (with an IEP) and plays sports. He is 8 by the way.
  
  1. Going to the media first, I can't disagree with you on that one.
  2. Weeks before it was reported might be because the parents didn't know about it until then? Trust me, mildly autistic kids are 100% loyal, 100% trust worthy, etc. They do NOT understand jokes, do NOT understand sarcasm, and will nearly believe anything you tell them. I could almost literally tell my son the sky is pink and he would believe me, not because he is stupid (he actually is amazing at math, spelling, etc), but because he trusts everyone. What if his friends told him it was to raise money for a good cause and told him everyone was doing the feces/urine challenge? I'm telling you, that a kid with aspbergers/mild autism could/would believe them and NOT tell his parents.
  3. The fact that the boy is mildly autistic and fully participates, I'm not sure how that makes it any better or worse. The only difference between fully autistic and mild is that the mildly autistic may actually have friends (with help from different specialties, when my son was 3 or 4 he wouldn't talk to ANYONE but us...now, through therapy, he has the opposite problem, he is up in everyone's face/space sometimes). The fully autistic kid would never have these 'friends' to begin with. The mildly autistic kid would not only have these 'friends' but would again FULLY trust them and would NEVER understand if they were joking or sarcastic. Once again, kids with aspbergers or mild autism can not understand when someone is messing with them. They fully trust people that are close to them and believe every word they say.
  4. The active solicitation is questionable, but could be for either a lawyer for lawsuits or, even better, for counseling for the kid.
  
  I stand by my statement before, having a son who fits the same profile, if any of his 'friends' did this to him, I would beat the hell out of their fathers for raising kids like that.
• rmolin73

  

  Seems like Dr Winston is taking the old Fairwood approach.
• Dr Winston O'Boogie

  

  jmog;1652570 wrote:You maybe correct, but let me give you some insight as a parent of a mildly autistic child who participates fully in school (with an IEP) and plays sports. He is 8 by the way.
  
  1. Going to the media first, I can't disagree with you on that one.
  2. Weeks before it was reported might be because the parents didn't know about it until then? Trust me, mildly autistic kids are 100% loyal, 100% trust worthy, etc. They do NOT understand jokes, do NOT understand sarcasm, and will nearly believe anything you tell them. I could almost literally tell my son the sky is pink and he would believe me, not because he is stupid (he actually is amazing at math, spelling, etc), but because he trusts everyone. What if his friends told him it was to raise money for a good cause and told him everyone was doing the feces/urine challenge? I'm telling you, that a kid with aspbergers/mild autism could/would believe them and NOT tell his parents.
  3. The fact that the boy is mildly autistic and fully participates, I'm not sure how that makes it any better or worse. The only difference between fully autistic and mild is that the mildly autistic may actually have friends (with help from different specialties, when my son was 3 or 4 he wouldn't talk to ANYONE but us...now, through therapy, he has the opposite problem, he is up in everyone's face/space sometimes). The fully autistic kid would never have these 'friends' to begin with. The mildly autistic kid would not only have these 'friends' but would again FULLY trust them and would NEVER understand if they were joking or sarcastic. Once again, kids with aspbergers or mild autism can not understand when someone is messing with them. They fully trust people that are close to them and believe every word they say.
  4. The active solicitation is questionable, but could be for either a lawyer for lawsuits or, even better, for counseling for the kid.
  
  I stand by my statement before, having a son who fits the same profile, if any of his 'friends' did this to him, I would beat the hell out of their fathers for raising kids like that.

  I respect your experience and opinion. You obviously know more about what makes an autistic kid tick than I do. This could very well be simply a very cruel prank and my initial reaction was the right one. I guess it's the money thing that got my radar up. In a million years, I cannot see how that fits here. I guess I also am reacting to the vigilante type uproar where the whole thing has been tried in the court of public opinion without the facts (me included). Seeing the celebrities step in only makes me more cynical.
• isadore

  HitsRus;1652519 wrote:A link here would help.
  I'm not sure that body fluids that are not infected with a deadly pathogen are "deadly weapons".... and I don't think you need "the body fluids" to prove assault if what they did fits the definition.
  
  What these kids did was despicable, but we really don't need to stretch or reinterpret laws trying to nail these kids to the wall for what would have passed as a fraternity hazing/initiation ritual 50 years ago. Juvenile law is about appropriately punishing and counseling juveniles and their mistakes so that they can grow up productive members of society without having to carry an excessive lifelong burden created by that mistake. This applies even to far worse crimes than this. Other things factor into this, repeat offender? ...otherwise good record, etc. None of this we know, so we have to allow the authorities to do their job according to law.

  unbelievable, they took a special needs student, a kid with problems fitting in to begin with and they pull this atrocity on him and then they broadcast it. They are beyond the pale. Heck a sign of future serial killers is torturing the helpless.
• vdubb96

  

  I agree with jmog on this one. Our very close friends have a 16 year old with aspbergers. He would do anything anyone told him to do. Great kid and very loyal. He also is fully engaged in the student body and is involved in sports. I could very easily see something like this happening to him and not telling anyone.
• isadore

  Gosh a ruddies these monsters have their defenders in this thread.
  They
  , instead of filling the bucket with ice water they filled it with urine and spit. Then while recording, the bucket was dumped from a roof and onto the special needs teenager. The video was later posted to Instagram.
  Unbelieveable, people who could do this. their lives should be ruined.
• thavoice

  Dr Winston O'Boogie;1652560 wrote:There are some facts coming out about this that don't smell right. They are:
  - The mother of the victim went to the media first
  - This incident happened weeks before it was reported
  - The boy is mildly autistic and is a full participant in school, extracurricular activities and sports
  - The boy has been a part of this group of "friends" for awhile. He has not been a follower of them so much as a part of them. He continued to hang with them right up until his mother reported the incident.
  - The family has actively solicited and accepted donations. Why there is a need for money here when no one was injured, no property was damaged, etc is VERY suspicious.
  
  This story may be exactly what was originally reported. However the vigilante rage and the people tripping over each other to coordinate peace marches, "unity shows", etc is bothersome.
  
  I am beginning to feel like I rushed to judgement without considering the fact that these kids could be just very stupid - perhaps trying to imitate a Jackass stunt or something. Maybe they have done all sorts of stupid crap like this to each other and we don't have context.
  
  Anyway, the actions of the boy's family have given me great pause.

  So, Dr., in your expert opinion how much of the blame do we place on this victim and/or his family? 50%? 75%? Or about, oh lets say, 5%?
• Dr Winston O'Boogie

  

  thavoice;1652710 wrote:So, Dr., in your expert opinion how much of the blame do we place on this victim and/or his family? 50%? 75%? Or about, oh lets say, 5%?

  I am not making a joke out of this and I know that the 5% blame thing is passed around this site as a joke all the time - not funny by the way. My gut feeling may be wrong, but I get a Duke Lacrosse feeling here. I really hope that is wrong. And perhaps there is some truth in the middle. If this kid is a victim of a cruel prank - which was my original thought - than that is outrageous and punishment should follow. But there are things happening that are not consistent with the original story the boy's mother has told. On top of that, her family's active solicitation of money makes me very suspiscious. This event happened in the middle of the summer. Perhaps she only did discover it this past week. But it seemed strange that her first point of contact the news media and that she had a law firm lined up before she spoke to anyone.
• HitsRus

  

  Gosh a ruddies these monsters have their defenders in this thread

  ???? who? Me? for suggesting that they be prosecuted to the full extent of the law without knee jerk vigilantism and letting the authorities do their job?
  
  

  unbelievable, they took a special needs student, a kid with problems fitting in to begin with and they pull this atrocity on him and then they broadcast it. They are beyond the pale. Heck a sign of future serial killers is torturing the helpless.

  most certainly despicable...but how does this fit into perspective with brutal physical assault, murder, armed robbery, arson. vehicular homicide from drag racing, throwing rocks off turnpike bridges? Juveniles commit these crimes like this everyday. Would it make a difference if the Porky's style prank was done to a band geek?
• rmolin73

  

  Dr Winston O'Boogie;1652714 wrote:I am not making a joke out of this and I know that the 5% blame thing is passed around this site as a joke all the time - not funny by the way. My gut feeling may be wrong, but I get a Duke Lacrosse feeling here. I really hope that is wrong. And perhaps there is some truth in the middle. If this kid is a victim of a cruel prank - which was my original thought - than that is outrageous and punishment should follow. But there are things happening that are not consistent with the original story the boy's mother has told. On top of that, her family's active solicitation of money makes me very suspiscious. This event happened in the middle of the summer. Perhaps she only did discover it this past week. But it seemed strange that her first point of contact the news media and that she had a law firm lined up before she spoke to anyone.

  Maybe they felt that the authorities would have just dismissed their claims. You know kind of like you are in this post.
• HelloAgain

  Jesus, no wonder Hits is so up in arms about the reaction to the band hazing. He sees pouring feces on a developmentally disabled kid as a classic 'boys will be boys' prank.
• isadore

  HitsRus;1652769 wrote:???? who? Me? for suggesting that they be prosecuted to the full extent of the law without knee jerk vigilantism and letting the authorities do their job?
  
  
  
  
  most certainly despicable...but how does this fit into perspective with brutal physical assault, murder, armed robbery, arson. vehicular homicide from drag racing, throwing rocks off turnpike bridges? Juveniles commit these crimes like this everyday. Would it make a difference if the Porky's style prank was done to a band geek?

  Gosh a ruddies
  your stated sympathy for the victim is neglible.
  And your attitude toward the crime “
  a fraternity hazing/initiation ritual” or “Porky's style prank” They attacked and humiliated this young man. Even in Porky’s they did not attack the handicapped. Toward the perpetrators of this atrocity: your worry is for them“so that they can grow up productive members of society without having to carry an excessive lifelong burden created by that mistake.” These were not preteens who did this, they are high school students.
  Brutal physical assault, murder, throwing rocks off turnpike bridges.armed robbery can get a juvenile referred to the adult system for hard time.
  This was a planned crime in which they selected a handicapped victim. They tricked and humiliated him in a particularly degrading way. They assaulted him with a potentially dangerous substances. And then they put it out for the world to see.
  So let your heart bleed for this scum, they deserve no breaks.
  
• rmolin73

  

  It takes a sadistic piece of shit to even think something like this up. These kids will get a slap on the wrist because they are good suburban kids. Oh wait let's blame the victim and his family while we're at it.
• Tiernan

  When the wrist slap comes we will at least know who the monsters are...and at that point they better be looking over their shoulders for a long time to come. I hope their parents get some nice attention too.