Archive

Newly popular game: Knockout

  • ohiobucks1
    O-Trap;1538258 wrote: I'm curious what racism exists within the laws.

    I would be much more able to explain it in person, but just for example:

    1. There are a lot of statues in the criminal law system that were made with racist undertones and in effect have really hurt the black community more than other minority communities (drug laws, weapon laws, different criminal statutes such as judges abilities to determine sentencing)

    2. There have been some proven biases in our Criminal Law system to put blacks behind bars for longer terms than whites for comparable crimes.

    3. There has been some recent problems where Blacks are convicted of crimes for the same exact offense as whites who are not convicted (mostly rape and murder cases) by judges and juries alike.


    Those are just 3 big examples, there also exists some problems with immigration statues in our country (depending on whether you think those are racist or not...I don't, but thats just me)


    I actually just had a murder row exoneree come talk to my class the other day... He was 6'4 220 and was convicted of rape even though the victim said her culprit was 5'9...It wasn't until they did DNA evidence that he finally got off. It happens still, as much as we want to ignore it.


    p.s if you are interested at all about death row exonerations (which a lot of the time are black men freed by DNA testing), go here:

    http://www.oneforten.com/


    It's crazy to me, but somehow there are stats out there that say that 1/4 of all death row inmates have been wrongly convicted...Many of those were due to juries who automatically believed a white person over a black on trial and ignored a preponderance of the evidence
  • rmolin73
    sleeper;1538239 wrote:The darker the color of the skin the greater the chance you are given a handout.
    So you are essentially saying that I'm where I'm at because of handouts? It couldn't be that my grades and SAT/ACT scores got me my scholarship? It couldn't of been that my father had the means to pay my full room and board? Most of my Indian and Middle Eastern friends are waaaaayyyy darker than me. Guess what no handouts. Does this apply to light skin blacks as well?
  • Belly35
    Have we covered why Blacks are more racist than Whites
  • rmolin73
    Belly35;1538323 wrote:Have we covered why Blacks are more racist than Whites
    Racists come in all colors. To single out one as "more" racists is just plain stupid.
  • O-Trap
    ohiobucks1;1538293 wrote:1. There are a lot of statues in the criminal law system that were made with racist undertones and in effect have really hurt the black community more than other minority communities (drug laws, weapon laws, different criminal statutes such as judges abilities to determine sentencing)
    Undertones are often nearly impossible to substantiate. As for the drug laws, weapon laws, and judges' ability to determine sentencing, what is it about those laws that make them racially unequal?
    ohiobucks1;1538293 wrote:2. There have been some proven biases in our Criminal Law system to put blacks behind bars for longer terms than whites for comparable crimes.
    Bias implies intent. As such, how have these biases been proven, and where?

    Keep in mind that correlation does not prove causation.
    ohiobucks1;1538293 wrote:3. There has been some recent problems where Blacks are convicted of crimes for the same exact offense as whites who are not convicted (mostly rape and murder cases) by judges and juries alike.
    The actions of a particular judge don't establish the racial inequality of the law itself. Moreover, no two cases bear identical circumstances surrounding the crime. As such, the two charges being similar doesn't necessitate that the two cases, and the details surrounding them, are able to be compared.
    ohiobucks1;1538293 wrote:I actually just had a murder row exoneree come talk to my class the other day... He was 6'4 220 and was convicted of rape even though the victim said her culprit was 5'9...It wasn't until they did DNA evidence that he finally got off. It happens still, as much as we want to ignore it.
    Obviously someone dropped the ball, as 6' 4" is a pretty noticeable height. Were there other circumstances (fingerprints, etc?). Either way, was the conviction racially motivated, and if so, how was that determined?
    ohiobucks1;1538293 wrote:p.s if you are interested at all about death row exonerations (which a lot of the time are black men freed by DNA testing), go here:

    http://www.oneforten.com/
    I tend to not be a big fan of the death penalty anyway, and it's good that innocent people are being freed. I'm not sure how that is racial, though.
    ohiobucks1;1538293 wrote:It's crazy to me, but somehow there are stats out there that say that 1/4 of all death row inmates have been wrongly convicted...
    I'm not surprised. As a general rule, I think people, at large, are not thoughtful and intellectual enough to weigh facts over rhetoric and sound bites. I don't have a whole lot of faith in "a jury of my peers." I suppose the use of such a jury could be said to enable racism within the courtroom. If there are racists on the jury, they could certainly pollute the whole.
    ohiobucks1;1538293 wrote:Many of those were due to juries who automatically believed a white person over a black on trial and ignored a preponderance of the evidence
    How do we know it was race that was the determining factor? Isn't it possible that race could have been circumstantial and the people were either stupid or were trusting or untrusting more by a person's demeanor or personal presentation than his or her skin color?

    Make no mistake, I think racism exists plenty in this country. However, I don't think an absence of evidence or explanation should default to racism if the circumstances make it part of the plausibility structure. I don't think reality shows us racism popping up from under every rock. Just because a racist motivation is POSSIBLE, that doesn't mean we have any reason to believe it is KNOWABLE.
  • O-Trap
    Belly35;1538323 wrote:Have we covered why Blacks are more racist than Whites
    Who did this study?
  • ohiobucks1
    O-Trap;1538438 wrote:Undertones are often nearly impossible to substantiate. As for the drug laws, weapon laws, and judges' ability to determine sentencing, what is it about those laws that make them racially unequal?

    Honestly, I am rather new to criminal law so I would have to ask my professors (and I wish I could have asked the speakers that have been coming in) but the tend to suggest that we are good job of correcting the issues, but as it is now, the statutes as written have a tendency to target and be enforced toward a higher % of blacks. A lot of policing of statutes is dependent on the cops who enforce them, as well.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-angell/racist-marijuana-laws_b_3383580.html heres a bad example, but an example.


    Bias implies intent. As such, how have these biases been proven, and where?

    Keep in mind that correlation does not prove causation.

    Agreed, the problem is, the best evidence I can give you is from the mouths of scholars that I have recently encountered (look up Bell Hook and Melissa Perry) and they have written articles about the intent (I'd have to do some digging to find it for you)


    The actions of a particular judge don't establish the racial inequality of the law itself. Moreover, no two cases bear identical circumstances surrounding the crime. As such, the two charges being similar doesn't necessitate that the two cases, and the details surrounding them, are able to be compared.
    Agreed, and trust me, I would love to believe there exists not bias, but there is a stat in my crim law book that says Blacks on average are sentenced to 40% longer sentences for crimes in the exact same category as whites (hispanics also see a 15% higher spike in punishment). It's too big of a difference to imply anything but inherent bias on the judges part.


    Obviously someone dropped the ball, as 6' 4" is a pretty noticeable height. Were there other circumstances (fingerprints, etc?). Either way, was the conviction racially motivated, and if so, how was that determined?
    Unfortunately, not really. A victim said her attacker was 5'9 but then picked him out as being the culprit. However, the cop who asked her, only showed her his picture and asked him if he did it, he never did a lineup or gave her a book of faces. It was on the cop.


    I tend to not be a big fan of the death penalty anyway, and it's good that innocent people are being freed. I'm not sure how that is racial, though.
    The death penalty is not racial, however a much higher % of blacks who are convicted or violent crimes are put on death row. The last stats I saw had a difference of about 15% and 25% of all death row inmates are proven innocent upon appeal so although not racist, it still negatively effects blacks more than any other racial group since they have a higher % of members on death row.


    I'm not surprised. As a general rule, I think people, at large, are not thoughtful and intellectual enough to weigh facts over rhetoric and sound bites. I don't have a whole lot of faith in "a jury of my peers." I suppose the use of such a jury could be said to enable racism within the courtroom. If there are racists on the jury, they could certainly pollute the whole.
    Agreed. It's a very real and crazy dilemma. Would you prefer a jury of your "peers" who are picked because they know AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE about your case (pretty much guaranteeing they are either out of touch with reality, liars, or old and only need 1 of them to believe you to be innocent to get off... Or would you prefer your fate to be in the hands of somebody who is trained to decide questions such as yours but is the only decision maker in the matter (judge).


    How do we know it was race that was the determining factor? Isn't it possible that race could have been circumstantial and the people were either stupid or were trusting or untrusting more by a person's demeanor or personal presentation than his or her skin color?

    We don't. It's just an observation I have noticed throughout my Crim Law class. When you combine the fact that blacks are convicted on a higher % of cases than whites for cases that involve similar situations (the best we can do in the field is talk about similar situations since no two cases are equal) + Blacks are sentenced to longer punishments on average + many lawyers are able to assemble all white or majority white juries in most cases (depending on the jurisdiction) it is a reasonable assumption.

    Make no mistake, I think racism exists plenty in this country. However, I don't think an absence of evidence or explanation should default to racism if the circumstances make it part of the plausibility structure. I don't think reality shows us racism popping up from under every rock. Just because a racist motivation is POSSIBLE, that doesn't mean we have any reason to believe it is KNOWABLE.
    Youre right. I agree. When I get some time after exams I will do some research for you and get back to you with solid evidence of racism in the law, both past and present.
  • sleeper
    rmolin73;1538294 wrote:So you are essentially saying that I'm where I'm at because of handouts? It couldn't be that my grades and SAT/ACT scores got me my scholarship? It couldn't of been that my father had the means to pay my full room and board? Most of my Indian and Middle Eastern friends are waaaaayyyy darker than me. Guess what no handouts. Does this apply to light skin blacks as well?
    Your sensitivity to the above issues would make me think so, yes.
  • sleeper
    Truth be told, if "LaShawniqua" wasn't getting the grades in high school in order to go to college, she probably doesn't WANT to go to college. So why would she, handouts or not?
    Umm money? No one says you have to show up to class to get your check.
  • vball10set
    sleeper;1538669 wrote:Umm money? No one says you have to show up to class to get your check.
    Aren't the funds sent directly to the school? Sorry to drop in here, but I seriously don't know.
  • gut
    Let's face it...part of the vicious cycle is stupid & lazy people tend to marry each other and have stupid & lazy children. And the problem is you just can't fix stupid.
  • Heretic
    Belly35;1538323 wrote:Have we covered why Blacks are more racist than Whites
    Since the closest to a racist perspective on this thread is coming from Sleeper, who allegedly is white, probably not.
  • sleeper
    vball10set;1538676 wrote:Aren't the funds sent directly to the school? Sorry to drop in here, but I seriously don't know.
    No they are not.
  • Raw Dawgin' it
    Belly35;1538323 wrote:Have we covered why Blacks are more racist than Whites
    no, we just covered that blacks call racism more than whites, latinos, and asians combined.
  • sleeper
    Belly35;1538323 wrote:Have we covered why Blacks are more racist than Whites
    Not sure this is true.
  • derek bomar
    I click on the video and first thing I hear is a "homeless man is beaten in HOBOken" - I am immature
  • sleeper
    gut;1538684 wrote:Let's face it...part of the vicious cycle is stupid & lazy people tend to marry each other and have stupid & lazy children. And the problem is you just can't fix stupid.
    Agreed and this applies to all races. The only difference is those who are lazy and stupid and happen to have dark skin are given opportunities solely because of their race.

    If that isn't racism, I'm not sure what is.
  • rmolin73
    sleeper;1538667 wrote:Your sensitivity to the above issues would make me think so, yes.
    You would be wrong yet again. I also believe that everyone on the OC can see that you are more sensitive about this issue than anyone.
  • rmolin73
    sleeper;1538871 wrote:Agreed and this applies to all races. The only difference is those who are lazy and stupid and happen to have dark skin are given opportunities solely because of their race.

    If that isn't racism, I'm not sure what is.
    Most are programs for poor people period! Are there programs that are geared towards minorities that are outdated? Of course! These outdated programs/laws/policies are the same as some of the labor laws that are no longer needed. We get it sleeper, minorities in your mind are what's wrong with this country. I challenge you to take your thoughts public. You need start a movement to get all these lazy, free loading minorities in line. Or are you too big of a coward to get from behind your computer and let your thoughts be known?
  • O-Trap
    sleeper;1538669 wrote:Umm money? No one says you have to show up to class to get your check.
    Money collected from not going to school is better. They'd be choosing the smaller payout.

    Most of the "free money" comes in the form of tuition being paid for. That which isn't directly applied is much smaller than if such a person was to just pop kids out and not go to school.
    derek bomar;1538847 wrote:I click on the video and first thing I hear is a "homeless man is beaten in HOBOken" - I am immature
    Don't worry. I noticed it, too, and I laughed in my little 14-year-old place inside.
  • like_that
    I guess there have been 2 recent attacks in my neighborhood here. I have been on the alert for teenage dipshits. I don't think I am the target they are looking for, but I will still be on the alert.
  • O-Trap
    like_that;1539287 wrote:I guess there have been 2 recent attacks in my neighborhood here. I have been on the alert for teenage dipshits. I don't think I am the target they are looking for, but I will still be on the alert.
    A buddy of mine lives in Rochester, and apparently, it's big there. He said that there is a sort of aside with the game, where people specifically try to get each other to do it to bigger and bigger targets.
  • like_that
    O-Trap;1539312 wrote:A buddy of mine lives in Rochester, and apparently, it's big there. He said that there is a sort of aside with the game, where people specifically try to get each other to do it to bigger and bigger targets.
    Doesn't surprise me. This is when one of these kids gets killed. I hope they try it on some small pro MMA fighter one day, would bring the lulz to read in the paper the outcome of that attempt.
  • O-Trap
    like_that;1539315 wrote:Doesn't surprise me. This is when one of these kids gets killed. I hope they try it on some small pro MMA fighter one day, would bring the lulz to read in the paper the outcome of that attempt.
    Agreed.
  • Raw Dawgin' it
    like_that;1539315 wrote:Doesn't surprise me. This is when one of these kids gets killed. I hope they try it on some small pro MMA fighter one day, would bring the lulz to read in the paper the outcome of that attempt.
    Or a guy with a gun.