Newly popular game: Knockout

• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  ohiobucks1;1538061 wrote:I agree with you that there are some in the Black community that do not strive to better themselves, but many start with such an overwhelming burden that they cannot possible overcome it. However, if you cannot comprehend why Rmolin and Gblock think you are being racist right now, then you are insane.

  And I wasn't born into royalty. Those are the breaks.
• gut

  ohiobucks1;1538061 wrote:... but many start with such an overwhelming burden that they cannot possible overcome it.

  This is really more a socio-economic issue than one of race...but if enough people blame racism enough, it is perhaps self-fulfilling.
  
  And is it really surprising that we keep telling the poor that the deck is stacked against them that they might start to believe it?
• Gblock

  i dont think an overwhelming burden has anything to do with racism...for example a student at our school last year was in sixth grade and was living by herself for 6 mos while her mom was in jail for shoplifting. had no electricity or heat and was in school everyday...albeit in trouble all the time which led to the discovery. or other kids here who have two parents who are crackheads, or move from shelter to shelter and change schools every 30 days. this is not the fault of whites or racism however i bet you or i would not be where we are either with those circumstances
• sleeper

  

  ohiobucks1;1538061 wrote:I agree with you that there are some in the Black community that do not strive to better themselves, but many start with such an overwhelming burden that they cannot possible overcome it. However, if you cannot comprehend why Rmolin and Gblock think you are being racist right now, then you are insane.

  Please describe the overwhelming burden that minorities face. I hear this all the time that minorities have this special case but I don't see it being anything more than what some segments of all races experience.
• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  Gblock;1538099 wrote:i dont think an overwhelming burden has anything to do with racism...for example a student at our school last year was in sixth grade and was living by herself for 6 mos while her mom was in jail for shoplifting. had no electricity or heat and was in school everyday...albeit in trouble all the time which led to the discovery. or other kids here who have two parents who are crackheads, or move from shelter to shelter and change schools every 30 days. this is not the fault of whites or racism however i bet you or i would not be where we are either with those circumstances

  I agree - i find the problem to be most people in those circumstances are looking to other to get them out. I think on a large level poorer people expect help from wealthier ones.
• ohiobucks1

  

  sleeper;1538105 wrote:Please describe the overwhelming burden that minorities face. I hear this all the time that minorities have this special case but I don't see it being anything more than what some segments of all races experience.

  
  It's not JUST minorities. It's just that a large % of minorities face the type of education, economic, and social problems that a large % of non-minorities do not deal with. I sit through lectures at school almost every single day. It has been a real eye opener for me. I'm no expert but it is becoming more and more obvious that growing up a Black in America is still a burden.
• sleeper

  

  ohiobucks1;1538111 wrote:It's not JUST minorities. It's just that a large % of minorities face the type of education, economic, and social problems that a large % of non-minorities do not deal with. I sit through lectures at school almost every single day. It has been a real eye opener for me. I'm no expert but it is becoming more and more obvious that growing up a Black in America is still a burden.

  No it isn't. Being black has nothing to do with it. Being poor sure, but black? No.
• sleeper

  

  I also find it ironic that rmolin always comes in here and goes "Well that doesn't represent the majority of black people" which I agree with but has no problem accepting the benefits give to all black people regardless of their position in life.
• ohiobucks1

  

  sleeper;1538116 wrote:No it isn't. Being black has nothing to do with it. Being poor sure, but black? No.

  and a big % of the black community has socio-economic issues + add in the fact that racism in our laws still occurs and you have a receipt for a big problem that is real, regardless of what you believe. I agree with you however, that the Black community (or lack thereof) does very little to help themselves, but that doesn't mean that education in areas of poverty (all poverty) should be revamped and refocused.
• Gblock

  There are the same programs for whites..ie those from appalacchia
• ohiobucks1

  

  Gblock;1538130 wrote:There are the same programs for whites..ie those from appalacchia

  Exactly, it's just a smaller %
• rmolin73

  

  sleeper;1538118 wrote:I also find it ironic that rmolin always comes in here and goes "Well that doesn't represent the majority of black people" which I agree with but has no problem accepting the benefits give to all black people regardless of their position in life.

  What benefits are you aware of that I have accepted? I'm waiting. You know my stance on AA and other minority based practices. So explain.
• sleeper

  

  rmolin73;1538168 wrote:What benefits are you aware of that I have accepted? I'm waiting. You know my stance on AA and other minority based practices. So explain.

  Affirmative action, scholarships, diversity in the workplace, equal opportunity laws, standards being lowered on exams, "hate" crimes, all black organizations = OK, all white organizations = racist.
• sleeper

  

  ohiobucks1;1538119 wrote:and a big % of the black community has socio-economic issues + add in the fact that racism in our laws still occurs and you have a receipt for a big problem that is real, regardless of what you believe. I agree with you however, that the Black community (or lack thereof) does very little to help themselves, but that doesn't mean that education in areas of poverty (all poverty) should be revamped and refocused.

  Hmm, and why do black people have so many socio-economic issues?
• ohiobucks1

  

  sleeper;1538182 wrote:Hmm, and why do black people have so many socio-economic issues?

  Well, its a pretty vicious cycle with no real good answer, but my personal belief is that the two biggest problems are a lack of (good) education and a lack of desire to self improve and hold oneself accountable. However, I believe the latter is a product of the former and can be fixed.
• rmolin73

  

  sleeper;1538181 wrote:Affirmative action, scholarships, diversity in the workplace, equal opportunity laws, standards being lowered on exams, "hate" crimes, all black organizations = OK, all white organizations = racist.

  So pretty much everything that I've stated continuously that I'm against. Also what makes you assume that I've benefitted from any of those?
• Gblock

  According to sleeper blacks fall into two categories those who don't work and want handouts that blame whites or those who undeservedly had their jobs handed to them through AA
• raiderbuck

  rmolin73;1538195 wrote:So pretty much everything that I've stated continuously that I'm against. Also what makes you assume that I've benefitted from any of those?

  Because you're black...duh
  

  Gblock;1538198 wrote:According to sleeper blacks fall into two categories those who don't work and want handouts that blame whites or those who undeservedly had their jobs handed to them through AA

  Reps
• sleeper

  

  ohiobucks1;1538186 wrote:Well, its a pretty vicious cycle with no real good answer, but my personal belief is that the two biggest problems are a lack of (good) education and a lack of desire to self improve and hold oneself accountable. However, I believe the latter is a product of the former and can be fixed.

  I believe the latter is why the former is irrelevant.
• sleeper

  

  rmolin73;1538195 wrote:So pretty much everything that I've stated continuously that I'm against. Also what makes you assume that I've benefitted from any of those?

  Do you express to your black friends your opinion on these topics?
• sleeper

  

  Gblock;1538198 wrote:According to sleeper blacks fall into two categories those who don't work and want handouts that blame whites or those who undeservedly had their jobs handed to them through AA

  Its unfortunate that reality only gives me those two options; at least in the aggregate.
• Gblock

  And rich people I wont classify it as white, never get jobs handed to them because of what their last name is or who they know or who their parents know
• rmolin73

  

  sleeper;1538202 wrote:Do you express to your black friends your opinion on these topics?

  My entire circle of friends black, white, hispanic, asian, indian, and middle eatstern are fully aware of my opinion. I'm not a coward that needs to hype himself up on the internet like yourself. Once again sleeper what makes you assume that I've benefitted from any of those?
• sleeper

  

  rmolin73;1538233 wrote:My entire circle of friends black, white, hispanic, asian, indian, and middle eatstern are fully aware of my opinion. I'm not a coward that needs to hype himself up on the internet like yourself. Once again sleeper what makes you assume that I've benefitted from any of those?

  The darker the color of the skin the greater the chance you are given a handout.
• O-Trap

  

  sleeper;1537952 wrote:It's the white people that cause minorities to drop out of school at a higher rate than white people. Perhaps another product of granting access to college and providing scholarships based on skin color rather than merit. The real question is, how many white people that need an education to reach their fullest potential are being disenfranchised all so LaShawniqua from Harlem can waste 2 years of her life popping out kids on scholarship? Why not just award scholarship based on merit or financial need regardless of skin color? Wow what a concept!

  Admittedly, I don't know too many minorities who get these special treatments and drop out, honestly. I'm sure it happens, but of all the people I knew in school who did not have white skin, I can think of one who dropped out.
  
  Truth be told, if "LaShawniqua" wasn't getting the grades in high school in order to go to college, she probably doesn't WANT to go to college. So why would she, handouts or not?
  

  gut;1538082 wrote:This is really more a socio-economic issue than one of race...but if enough people blame racism enough, it is perhaps self-fulfilling.
  
  And is it really surprising that we keep telling the poor that the deck is stacked against them that they might start to believe it?

  I honestly do think this goes on more than we realize. The more people who "support the plight" of an alleged hard road, the harder it indeed may become.
  

  Gblock;1538099 wrote:i dont think an overwhelming burden has anything to do with racism...for example a student at our school last year was in sixth grade and was living by herself for 6 mos while her mom was in jail for shoplifting. had no electricity or heat and was in school everyday...albeit in trouble all the time which led to the discovery. or other kids here who have two parents who are crackheads, or move from shelter to shelter and change schools every 30 days. this is not the fault of whites or racism however i bet you or i would not be where we are either with those circumstances

  Possibly not, but do remember that there ARE people with similar such home lives and support systems who DO make good lives for themselves. I've actually been mentoring one such kid for the last few years. Single mom who moves them around every few months, because she never pays the rent, though she typically seems to have money for cigarettes, weed, alcohol, a Gucci purse, and the Ford Fusion she bought a la Cash for Clunkers (remember that?).
  
  He's now in college, pursuing a degree in Corrosion Engineering, and he's doing well. Now, you might say that he does have a better support system, but the fact is, he only has that system because he CHOSE to seek out the center I'm at. We didn't go to him. He came looking for help. The initiative was all his.
  
  So it can be done. Actually, the hardest part SEEMS to be convincing everyone that it can be done. I think there's a lot of truth to what [MENTION]gut[/MENTION] said. I think, to a large degree, that it's so much harder to overcome those circumstances because we've all come to BELIEVE it is, and we'd need convincing in order to believe otherwise, which is necessary before someone will act in such a way as to show that they believe that it's doable.
  

  ohiobucks1;1538119 wrote:and a big % of the black community has socio-economic issues + add in the fact that racism in our laws still occurs and you have a receipt for a big problem that is real, regardless of what you believe. I agree with you however, that the Black community (or lack thereof) does very little to help themselves, but that doesn't mean that education in areas of poverty (all poverty) should be revamped and refocused.

  I'm curious what racism exists within the laws.
  
  As for the socioeconomic issues, I say again that statistically, they are more a product of one's location, and not one's cultural background or skin color. I hold this view because of the norms. A black kid living in the city of Detroit is far more likely to have the same problems as a white kid living in the same part of Detroit than he is to have the same problems as someone from Warsaw, Indiana. The skin creates fewer similarities in struggles faced than the location. As such, I think the problem that minorities face is a result of where they live, and not the other way around (that those where they live face problems because of them).
  
  However, I DO suggest that the one element of being raised in such an environment that does tangibly make it more difficult, which I hinted to earlier, is that those who have raised them, as well as those they've known growing up, are often all living a certain way and bear a certain mentality already. If you, as a black child, were to have a mother who lived and spoke as though living off government assistance was the highest aspiration for people raised like her, and if she is raising you like she was raised, and if those around her during your growing up also displayed the same sentiment, then by the time you're an adult, you likely believe it to be true. THIS is where the greatest problem lies, I think. Not in availability of education. Not in community or social programs. Not in governmental assistance. But simply that so many have become believers in the inevitability of their own failures that it's what they shoot for, because they have literally never been given any alternative that would fit within their plausibility structure.
  

  ohiobucks1;1538186 wrote:Well, its a pretty vicious cycle with no real good answer, but my personal belief is that the two biggest problems are a lack of (good) education and a lack of desire to self improve and hold oneself accountable. However, I believe the latter is a product of the former and can be fixed.

  I don't even think it's a complete lack of desire (though that does exist in urban Americana plenty). In many cases, as stated above, I think it's a lack of knowledge that the desire makes any difference. Kids who try to better themselves in the inner city are often mocked and ridiculed by their peers, predominantly because said peers believe it to be a foolish, futile endeavor.
  

  Gblock;1538206 wrote:And rich people I wont classify it as white, never get jobs handed to them because of what their last name is or who they know or who their parents know

  Happens a lot, though to be fair, in many of those cases, SOMEONE along the line earned the name/connection/money/etc.