B1G Championship Game: (10) Michigan State 34, (2) Ohio State 24

• Me?

  

  Saturday was the first time UM's offensive line consistently protected Gardner and we still got to him quite a bit. He made a lot of nice plays with his feet. What I couldn't understand is why there was no aggressiveness on defense. Our scheme played right into their hands the entire game. None of the linebackers covered anyone all day, but we dropped them back almost every down. And the few times they dialed up blitz, we made life pretty difficult for Gardner. Shazier should be rushing the passer A LOT, he's really good at it.
• Me?

  

  Fickell sucks. We all know it. He won't be around much longer.
• se-alum

  

  A lot of people like to blame Fickell, and they may be correct, but nobody ever mentions Withers(you know, the co-dcord). It's been mentioned several times that Withers likes his guys playing off the receivers and sitting in zone, looking for the pick. Also noted that Urban likes the zone schemes. Unfortunately, zone schemes don't work well against screen offenses. You have to attack those offenses as a defense, not let them attack you. Point is, we don't really know who's fault it is.
• centralbucksfan

  se-alum;1546957 wrote:A lot of people like to blame Fickell, and they may be correct, but nobody ever mentions Withers(you know, the co-dcord). It's been mentioned several times that Withers likes his guys playing off the receivers and sitting in zone, looking for the pick. Also noted that Urban likes the zone schemes. Unfortunately, zone schemes don't work well against screen offenses. You have to attack those offenses as a defense, not let them attack you. Point is, we don't really know who's fault it is.

  I would agree with this totally. This has also given me an appreciation for former OSU Def. Coord Heacock. We rarely saw OSU give up big plays in any games. Last year, this year a big play is given up at least once a game. Which if it is the zone, should not happen.
  
  And as you mentioned, Withers is the co coord. And he is up in the box calling things to Fickell on sideline. Do we even know who is making the calls on defense? Which one? Both? Maybe its not Fickell at all. Withers came in with Meyer.
  
  As far as adjustments, I think OSU made good ones at half. They slowed Michigan down in the 3rd qtr. And mainly, we were finally getting pressure on QB as well. Pass defense is only as good as the pressure on the QB. I think in 4th qtr, our defense was tired. UM ran quite a few more plays than OSU did..
• se-alum

  

  centralbucksfan;1546963 wrote:I would agree with this totally. This has also given me an appreciation for former OSU Def. Coord Heacock. We rarely saw OSU give up big plays in any games. Last year, this year a big play is given up at least once a game. Which if it is the zone, should not happen.
  
  And as you mentioned, Withers is the co coord. And he is up in the box calling things to Fickell on sideline. Do we even know who is making the calls on defense? Which one? Both? Maybe its not Fickell at all. Withers came in with Meyer.
  
  As far as adjustments, I think OSU made good ones at half. They slowed Michigan down in the 3rd qtr. And mainly, we were finally getting pressure on QB as well. Pass defense is only as good as the pressure on the QB. I think in 4th qtr, our defense was tired. UM ran quite a few more plays than OSU did..

  People don't like to blame the guys that Urban brought in, for some reason. It's always Vrabel or Fickell's fault, never Meyer, Withers, or Coombs.
• centralbucksfan

  se-alum;1546987 wrote:People don't like to blame the guys that Urban brought in, for some reason. It's always Vrabel or Fickell's fault, never Meyer, Withers, or Coombs.

  I wonder how many people actually know Withers is the other defensive guy? I would venture to say, not many. It could be the Meyer thing, or just because Fickell and Vrabel are familar names. Probably combination. Bottom line, players have to play and make plays. VS UM, OSU players were in position to make plays on multiple occasions. And either over ran the play or missed tackles. It happened quite a bit. Easy to blame the coaches. UM also deserves credit for executing the plays and throwing the playbook at OSU. They really mixed it up and had OSU on their heels.
• lhslep134

  

  centralbucksfan;1546993 wrote: VS UM, OSU players were in position to make plays on multiple occasions.

  Uhm there were also a TON of times they were out of position, because of the playcalling and scheme.
• Heretic

  

  se-alum;1546987 wrote:People don't like to blame the guys that Urban brought in, for some reason. It's always Vrabel or Fickell's fault, never Meyer, Withers, or Coombs.

  This is the other side of the coin from the Orgeron/USC talk going on with another thread. There, Orgeron is the successful interim coach who resigned instead of stepping back into his coordinator role after they hired another guy to be the head man.
  
  Here, Fickell is the 6-7 head coach (for a team that expects BCS berths -- sure, they weren't eligible, but fans still want 12-0, 11-1 or the like) who maintained his coordinator job when a legit "made man" in coaching came in to take the job.
  
  You have the prestige the name Urban Meyer has and the subpar results that Fickell brought as far as wins and losses go during his one year and so, when things go wrong, Fickell is always going to be the general fan scapegoat.
  
  Interim coaches staying on staff, to me, just is a recipe for trouble -- sometimes potentially for the program and sometimes for them, personally. In the Orgeron case, with his success, if he stayed on board, I think any kind of slow start or losing streak would make some % of people want him back in charge. In the Fickell case, with his lack of success, any flaws that have anything to do with defense are ALL going on him because he's the guy who went 6-7.
• centralbucksfan

  Heretic;1547002 wrote:This is the other side of the coin from the Orgeron/USC talk going on with another thread. There, Orgeron is the successful interim coach who resigned instead of stepping back into his coordinator role after they hired another guy to be the head man.
  
  Here, Fickell is the 6-7 head coach (for a team that expects BCS berths -- sure, they weren't eligible, but fans still want 12-0, 11-1 or the like) who maintained his coordinator job when a legit "made man" in coaching came in to take the job.
  
  You have the prestige the name Urban Meyer has and the subpar results that Fickell brought as far as wins and losses go during his one year and so, when things go wrong, Fickell is always going to be the general fan scapegoat.
  
  Interim coaches staying on staff, to me, just is a recipe for trouble -- sometimes potentially for the program and sometimes for them, personally. In the Orgeron case, with his success, if he stayed on board, I think any kind of slow start or losing streak would make some % of people want him back in charge. In the Fickell case, with his lack of success, any flaws that have anything to do with defense are ALL going on him because he's the guy who went 6-7.

  EVERYONE knows Fickell inherited a program in shambles. They lost starting QB, RB and other key/huge players. There were no expectations for him at all. He did the best he could considering the circumstances. I don't believe ANYONE had any grand illusions that that team was going to do much better than they did. Not a fair comparison at all. I was at OSU basketball game, after the season when he was introduced. The fans gave him one hell of a standing ovation. Sorry
• se-alum

  

  Heretic;1547002 wrote:This is the other side of the coin from the Orgeron/USC talk going on with another thread. There, Orgeron is the successful interim coach who resigned instead of stepping back into his coordinator role after they hired another guy to be the head man.
  
  Here, Fickell is the 6-7 head coach (for a team that expects BCS berths -- sure, they weren't eligible, but fans still want 12-0, 11-1 or the like) who maintained his coordinator job when a legit "made man" in coaching came in to take the job.
  
  You have the prestige the name Urban Meyer has and the subpar results that Fickell brought as far as wins and losses go during his one year and so, when things go wrong, Fickell is always going to be the general fan scapegoat.
  
  Interim coaches staying on staff, to me, just is a recipe for trouble -- sometimes potentially for the program and sometimes for them, personally. In the Orgeron case, with his success, if he stayed on board, I think any kind of slow start or losing streak would make some % of people want him back in charge. In the Fickell case, with his lack of success, any flaws that have anything to do with defense are ALL going on him because he's the guy who went 6-7.

  I think the problem at USC was going to be the fact that Haden was going to give Orgeron the asst. head coach gig when that should be something that Sarkisian decides.
  
  Bottomline, OSU fans aren't going to blame Meyer or any of "his guys"(though I believe he chose to keep Vrabel and Fickell) for anything they can remotely blame on Vrabel or Fick.
• Me?

  

  I thought Fickell did a solid job filling in considering all the variables. I just don't think he's that good of a defensive coordinator.
• Heretic

  

  centralbucksfan;1547007 wrote:EVERYONE knows Fickell inherited a program in shambles. They lost starting QB, RB and other key/huge players. There were no expectations for him at all. He did the best he could considering the circumstances. I don't believe ANYONE had any grand illusions that that team was going to do much better than they did. Not a fair comparison at all. I was at OSU basketball game, after the season when he was introduced. The fans gave him one hell of a standing ovation. Sorry

  And on this site, where the team is 12-0, half the discussion on any given week is whether Fickell utterly sucks as a coordinator or not. Sure, fans appreciated the job he did filling in -- it was a no-win job where he did the best he can. That doesn't mean they want him around as a key coach on their elite head coach's staff that he inherited. Especially when the unit he's a coordinator for is seemingly where most of the performance-related questions are coming from.
  
  I mean, if you want to break things down, this year's defense lost the majority of their starters from last year and of the four returnees, one (Bryant) is missing most of the year with a broken ankle and another (Roby) was suspended early in the year. They've also had other injuries to deal with (like the Illinois game -- I think -- where 2/3 of the starting linebackers were out AND Bosa left injured). But yet, defensive performance has been criticized a lot and he, as a coordinator, has taken the brunt of that criticism.
• se-alum

  

  Heretic;1547025 wrote:And on this site, where the team is 12-0, half the discussion on any given week is whether Fickell utterly sucks as a coordinator or not. Sure, fans appreciated the job he did filling in -- it was a no-win job where he did the best he can. That doesn't mean they want him around as a key coach on their elite head coach's staff that he inherited. Especially when the unit he's a coordinator for is seemingly where most of the performance-related questions are coming from.
  
  I mean, if you want to break things down, this year's defense lost the majority of their starters from last year and of the four returnees, one (Bryant) is missing most of the year with a broken ankle and another (Roby) was suspended early in the year. They've also had other injuries to deal with (like the Illinois game -- I think -- where 2/3 of the starting linebackers were out AND Bosa left injured). But yet, defensive performance has been criticized a lot and he, as a coordinator, has taken the brunt of that criticism.

  You think Meyer was forced to keep Fickell and Vrabel?? No way that was the case, he kept them because they are good coaches and great recruiters. Plus they were a nice conduit between the team and the new staff.
• Midstate01

  

  Fickell refuses to go to the type of Defense that meyer wants. Which is attacking. Problem is with all these injuries at linebacker, they almost cant. They have been playing nickle almost exclusively. And if cam has to come into the game, they are screwed because his tackling is awful.
• Heretic

  

  se-alum;1547049 wrote:You think Meyer was forced to keep Fickell and Vrabel?? No way that was the case, he kept them because they are good coaches and great recruiters. Plus they were a nice conduit between the team and the new staff.

  Didn't say that. What I'm saying is more from what I think is a general fan sentiment, at least from what I gather from places like this.
  
  Meyer's the new coach. He's the big deal. Fickell was the old coach who went 6-7 in a bad situation. Fickell still being on the staff gives fans a scapegoat or someone to blame even if there are other elements (such as injuries) which also played a role in the subpar performances by the defense.
  
  I agree with the reasons you stated as to why those two were kept around -- just saying why, in peoples' minds, they're (or Fickell in particular) are being scapegoat'd by fans while Meyer's guys aren't getting the same criticism.
• Automatik

  

  Midstate01;1547064 wrote:Fickell refuses to go to the type of Defense that meyer wants. Which is attacking. Problem is with all these injuries at linebacker, they almost cant. They have been playing nickle almost exclusively. And if cam has to come into the game, they are screwed because his tackling is awful.

  I've read, either on here or 11W, that Meyer and Fickell were agreement regarding their attacking gameplan...few designed blitzes, and get pressure primarily with the D-line.
  
  The thing that pisses me off the most is seeing the DBs play so far off, so frequently. OSU is a program that would celebrate physical play from their corners. Now we just sit back, let them get the easy shit underneath and run wild.
• Terry_Tate

  

  Automatik;1547101The thing that pisses me off the most is seeing the DBs play so far off, so frequently. OSU is a program that would celebrate physical play from their corners. Now we just sit back, let them get the easy shit underneath and run wide.[/QUOTE wrote:
  This. Drives me nuts to always see the CBs 8-10 yards off their WR. I think Roby and Grant could play press but you almost never see them any closer than 5 yards.

• Classyposter58

  

  Terry_Tate;1547103 wrote:This. Drives me nuts to always see the CBs 8-10 yards off their WR. I think Roby and Grant could play press but you almost never see them any closer than 5 yards.

  This where losing Bryant hurts, helps when a good safety is back there to bail you out
• gerb131

  

  This week is flying by for me where ttun week was slow.
  Think the bucks throw a bit more this week and that's a good thing. Look for 2 long td passes.
  30-17 buckeye
• se-alum

  

  Midstate01;1547064 wrote:Fickell refuses to go to the type of Defense that meyer wants. Which is attacking. Problem is with all these injuries at linebacker, they almost cant. They have been playing nickle almost exclusively. And if cam has to come into the game, they are screwed because his tackling is awful.

  That is the exact opposite of what's been reported all year. Meyer likes getting pressure from the front 4, and not using a lot of blitzes.
• se-alum

  

  Heretic;1547067 wrote:Didn't say that. What I'm saying is more from what I think is a general fan sentiment, at least from what I gather from places like this.
  
  Meyer's the new coach. He's the big deal. Fickell was the old coach who went 6-7 in a bad situation. Fickell still being on the staff gives fans a scapegoat or someone to blame even if there are other elements (such as injuries) which also played a role in the subpar performances by the defense.
  
  I agree with the reasons you stated as to why those two were kept around -- just saying why, in peoples' minds, they're (or Fickell in particular) are being scapegoat'd by fans while Meyer's guys aren't getting the same criticism.

  Oh yea, I agree with this. I miss understood the inherited part of your previous post.
• se-alum

  

  Off topic, but this is pretty funny...
  
  http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/12/30119/random-bro-live-tweets-vonn-bell-hitting-on-a-girl
• Benny The Jet

  

  Me?;1546913 wrote:Saturday was the first time UM's offensive line consistently protected Gardner and we still got to him quite a bit. He made a lot of nice plays with his feet. What I couldn't understand is why there was no aggressiveness on defense. Our scheme played right into their hands the entire game. None of the linebackers covered anyone all day, but we dropped them back almost every down. And the few times they dialed up blitz, we made life pretty difficult for Gardner. Shazier should be rushing the passer A LOT, he's really good at it.

  Im pretty sure it was the opposite for the most part. The defense even came out and said they were too pumped up for the game and too aggressive and UM played off that with a lot of misdirections. Which work well against an aggressive defense that over-pursues.
• believer

  

  Benny The Jet;1547293 wrote:Im pretty sure it was the opposite for the most part. The defense even came out and said they were too pumped up for the game and too aggressive and UM played off that with a lot of misdirections. Which work well against an aggressive defense that over-pursues.

  Which translates to "the defense let Michigan's average offense hang 41 points on the Buckeyes".
• vball10set