Michigan at Ohio State...1/29...Thoughts...

• LJ

  

  centralbucksfan;1070075 wrote:It wasn't long ago, that Self was right were Matta was/is. Again, it took Self 14yrs to win a title. And that at Kansas, a pretty good gig, with better tradition and more focus on bball. Matta is in his 12th year as a head coach. As I mentioned above, look at how long it has taken some guys to win their first title. It took many great ones a LONG, LONG time to get there. And in this day and age where there is MUCH more talent nationally, it makes it even more difficult. He has done all of the above IMO. He has been to a title game already. Winning a title is obviously not easy. Many things have to go your way, little luck here and there, getting hot at right time, the tourney draw can help, etc, etc. etc. Things have to fall into place, no question. UConn last year is a primse example. Were they the best team in the country overall last year? Hell no. But things fell right into place for them.

  The problem is, if Matta consistently had guys overachieving and he was winning B1G titles and getting to the Sweet 16, I would be tickled to death. That is not the case though. 2007/08 really was not Matta's fault as he had 2 supposed long term players who went pro after one year, and there isn't much you can do about that. After that though, last year was Final Four or bust. This year it is Elite 8 or bust IMO.
  
  Complacency breeds mediocrity
• vball10set

  lol..deja vu all over again
• vball10set

  Automatik;1069967 wrote:Taking into account his age, past/current success, and recruiting I can honestly say I wouldn't either.

  ditto
• SportsAndLady

  

  Automatik;1070081 wrote:I don't think he gave it a single thought.

  That's fine.
  I'm not saying it's dumb to think that, I just personally think coaches look back at players in their own backyard and regret not offering them when they actually turn into good players.
• FatHobbit

  

  LJ;1070087 wrote:The problem is, if Matta consistently had guys overachieving and he was winning B1G titles and getting to the Sweet 16, I would be tickled to death. That is not the case though. 2007/08 really was not Matta's fault as he had 2 supposed long term players who went pro after one year, and there isn't much you can do about that. After that though, last year was Final Four or bust. This year it is Elite 8 or bust IMO.
  
  Complacency breeds mediocrity

  IMO
  
  2004/2005 - no tournament appearance
  2005/2006 - second round loss- overachieved with Terrence Dials and then were exposed in the tournament
  2006/2007 - NCAA runner up - great season/pretty good tournament
  2007/2008 - NIT champs - disappointing season
  2008/2009 - 1st round loss - terrible tournament appearance, but they were an 8 that lost to a 9 so not really surprising
  2009/2010 - sweet 16 - good season - not a great tournament. I don't think they were a great team and they were too dependent on Evan Turner
  2010/2011 - sweet 16 - great season - not a great tournament (this team underachieved the most out of Matta's teams at OSU IMO. I think they were better than this years team)
  
  I think the biggest reason I'm happy having Matta as our coach is that he has really raised the bar on what is and isn't acceptable. When Obrien was the coach we were competing for Big 10 titles and hoping to make the tournament. Even when we made the tournament the teams were not good enough to have expectations that they would win it all. With Matta as the coach we are winning Big 10 titles and competing for the national championship. There aren't many coaches out there that do more than that. You could say Matta is a better recruiter than a coach and that other coaches would do much better with the talent he has, but the problem with that argument is most other coaches aren't getting the talent that Matta is.
• LJ

  

  FatHobbit;1070130 wrote:IMO
  
  2004/2005 - no tournament appearance
  2005/2006 - second round loss- overachieved with Terrence Dials and then were exposed in the tournament
  2006/2007 - NCAA runner up - great season/pretty good tournament
  2007/2008 - NIT champs - disappointing season
  2008/2009 - 1st round loss - terrible tournament appearance, but they were an 8 that lost to a 9 so not really surprising
  2009/2010 - sweet 16 - good season - not a great tournament. I don't think they were a great team and they were too dependent on Evan Turner
  2010/2011 - sweet 16 - great season - not a great tournament (this team underachieved the most out of Matta's teams at OSU IMO. I think they were better than this years team)
  
  I think the biggest reason I'm happy having Matta as our coach is that he has really raised the bar on what is and isn't acceptable. When Obrien was the coach we were competing for Big 10 titles and hoping to make the tournament. Even when we made the tournament the teams were not good enough to have expectations that they would win it all. With Matta as the coach we are winning Big 10 titles and competing for the national championship. There aren't many coaches out there that do more than that. You could say Matta is a better recruiter than a coach and that other coaches would do much better with the talent he has, but the problem with that argument is most other coaches aren't getting the talent that Matta is.

  The underachievment last year is what is burning me up and why I refuse to become complacent with B1G titles. I think the 09/10 team did what they should have done. They had no inside game. Last year they had every aspect of the game and they couldn't put it together. You don't get many chances like that to have basically the perfect mix of talent, experience, leadership and drive. IMO there should be an unlit match sitting on the floor under Matta's chair. I don't think he is anywhere near getting fired or reprimanded, nor should he be, but I think we as fans need to always demand more, in a reasonable fashion. I think it's reasonable at this point to start wanting Final Fours.
  
  Or hell, even just getting 100% out of the team come tourny time would be a start.
• SportsAndLady

  

  IMO the "i'm happy with the coach now because our coach before was just awful" argument is pretty bad.
  
  So you guys are cool with constantly bringing in top talent but never actually winning anything on a national level because the coach before was lousy?
• Automatik

  

  lol are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
  
  Would you like me to complain about Matta? I'm 100% content with the direction that the OSU bball program is heading.
  
  Sorry I'm not one of those fans who like to nitpick and bitch about everything. Look around the forum and I'm sure you can find lots of bitching regarding the hoops and football teams.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Automatik;1070167 wrote:lol are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
  
  Would you like me to complain about Matta? I'm 100% content with the direction that the OSU bball program is heading.
  
  Sorry I'm not one of those fans who like to nitpick and bitch about everything. Look around the forum and I'm sure you can find lots of bitching regarding the hoops and football teams.

  I wasn't talking to you?
• Midstate01

  

  I think it's funny this convo is even happening. I'm happy with what matta is doing. He's winning basketball games, amd a lot do them, at a football school. If he had won a title, say with the oden team, then people would still find ways to bitch and say it was only because of talent blah blah. Sure I want to win more in the tourney, but I'm not going to sit here and bitch about it. I'm very happy with the state of our basketball program.
• se-alum

  

  SportsAndLady;1070156 wrote:IMO the "i'm happy with the coach now because our coach before was just awful" argument is pretty bad.
  
  So you guys are cool with constantly bringing in top talent but never actually winning anything on a national level because the coach before was lousy?

  Yes, were cool with just being average in the tournament. There, will that make you give up on your ridiculous argument? Matta is one of the top coaches in the NCAA, and has turned this program completely around. We're willing to give him time to see if he can win it all. At this point, there's no better coach in the NCAA that is going to leave their team to come to OSU, so I'm not real sure what your point is.
• Hb31187

  

  FatHobbit;1070130 wrote:IMO
  
  2004/2005 - no tournament appearance
  2005/2006 - second round loss- overachieved with Terrence Dials and then were exposed in the tournament
  2006/2007 - NCAA runner up - great season/pretty good tournament
  2007/2008 - NIT champs - disappointing season
  2008/2009 - 1st round loss - terrible tournament appearance, but they were an 8 that lost to a 9 so not really surprising
  2009/2010 - sweet 16 - good season - not a great tournament. I don't think they were a great team and they were too dependent on Evan Turner
  2010/2011 - sweet 16 - great season - not a great tournament (this team underachieved the most out of Matta's teams at OSU IMO. I think they were better than this years team)
  
  I think the biggest reason I'm happy having Matta as our coach is that he has really raised the bar on what is and isn't acceptable. When Obrien was the coach we were competing for Big 10 titles and hoping to make the tournament. Even when we made the tournament the teams were not good enough to have expectations that they would win it all. With Matta as the coach we are winning Big 10 titles and competing for the national championship. There aren't many coaches out there that do more than that. You could say Matta is a better recruiter than a coach and that other coaches would do much better with the talent he has, but the problem with that argument is most other coaches aren't getting the talent that Matta is.

  you're right, most coaches arent getting near the talent Matta gets. The problem is, the ones who are....are doing more with it
• Midstate01

  

  Hb31187;1070182 wrote:you're right, most coaches arent getting near the talent Matta gets. The problem is, the ones who are....are doing more with it

  
  Cool....who's your team. I literally don't know... Michigan?
• FatHobbit

  

  LJ;1070150 wrote:The underachievment last year is what is burning me up and why I refuse to become complacent with B1G titles. I think the 09/10 team did what they should have done. They had no inside game.

  LJ;1070150 wrote:I don't think he is anywhere near getting fired or reprimanded, nor should he be, but I think we as fans need to always demand more, in a reasonable fashion. I think it's reasonable at this point to start wanting Final Fours.

  I can agree with that. I want final fours and/or championships too and I think we'll see those soon. Maybe not even this year, but at least now when we get to the tournament we have the players to get it done.
  

  SportsAndLady;1070156 wrote:IMO the "i'm happy with the coach now because our coach before was just awful" argument is pretty bad.
  
  So you guys are cool with constantly bringing in top talent but never actually winning anything on a national level because the coach before was lousy?

  I want to win. But I don't think OSU is a school that gets the top recruits because of their name. It's not like football where we can pretty much pick and choose who we want. Matta gets those kids and we are competing now. I think the wins will come.
• Automatik

  

  Hb31187;1070182 wrote:you're right, most coaches arent getting near the talent Matta gets. The problem is, the ones who are....are doing more with it

  Who would those coaches be?
• FatHobbit

  

  Hb31187;1070182 wrote:you're right, most coaches arent getting near the talent Matta gets. The problem is, the ones who are....are doing more with it

  Please name the coaches who are doing more with less. (They do exist, I just want to see your list)
• SportsAndLady

  

  se-alum;1070179 wrote:Yes, were cool with just being average in the tournament. There, will that make you give up on your ridiculous argument? Matta is one of the top coaches in the NCAA, and has turned this program completely around. We're willing to give him time to see if he can win it all. At this point, there's no better coach in the NCAA that is going to leave their team to come to OSU, so I'm not real sure what your point is.

  What is your definition of a "top coach"?
  
  Top 3? 5? 10?
• Mulva

  

  You'd be an idiot not to be happy with where Matta has the program. You'd also be an idiot to think that every decision he makes is correct just because he's Thad Matta, and that he's not open to criticism.
  
  I think this season is the last real chance at a national title on the immediate horizon (assuming Sully leaves).
• Hb31187

  

  FatHobbit;1070193 wrote:Please name the coaches who are doing more with less. (They do exist, I just want to see your list)

  I didnt say they do more with Less. I said the ones who have equal talent to what Matta is bringing in do more with said talent. Williams, Self, Coach K, ect
• Hb31187

  

  Midstate01;1070185 wrote:Cool....who's your team. I literally don't know... Michigan?

  Yeah, dunno what that has to do with it though lol. Unless you're gonna take a shot at them which wouldnt really bother me much
• se-alum

  

  SportsAndLady;1070195 wrote:What is your definition of a "top coach"?
  
  Top 3? 5? 10?

  Top 10.
• FatHobbit

  

  Hb31187;1070200 wrote:I didnt say they do more with Less.

  
  My mistake, you're right.
  

  Hb31187;1070200 wrote:I said the ones who have equal talent to what Matta is bringing in do more with said talent. Williams, Self, Coach K, ect

  I agree we're not on the level of those three yet, but we're a lot closer than we've ever been before. I'm curious to see who etc would be.
• se-alum

  

  Hb31187;1070200 wrote:I didnt say they do more with Less. I said the ones who have equal talent to what Matta is bringing in do more with said talent. Williams, Self, Coach K, ect

  Well, I'm ok with Matta being behind 2 coaching legends, and another guy who will probably be a legend when it's all said and done.
• Automatik

  

  se-alum;1070216 wrote:Well, I'm ok with Matta being behind 2 coaching legends, and another guy who will probably be a legend when it's all said and done.

  Yeah I'll take that statement as even more reassurance that Matta I the right guy at OSU.
• Prescott

  I said the ones who have equal talent to what Matta is bringing in do more with said talent. Williams, Self, Coach K, ect

  All of these guys have won NCAA basketball championships , but they have also had tournament failures.It is the nature of the tournament.Last year alone #1 seeded Kansas lost to #10 seeded VCU and #1 seeded Duke was destroyed by #5 seeded Arizona 95-77.
  
  Yet, Matta underachieves because an underseeded Kentucky team beat OSU 62-60. That same Kentucky team also defeated UNC 76-69 and lost by 1 point to the eventual national champion UConn.
  
  Your argument is lame.