Cam Newton and father admitted in phone conversations that money would determine coll
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ytownfootball
enigmaax;560922 wrote:If found guilty, protocol would certainly call for Auburn to vacate wins. However, I don't think the NCAA is going to go that route, especially if they do make a ruling before the end of this season. The gray areas being that he may not have actually taken money and he may not have actually known about it and that Auburn may not have had anything to do with it. So a great way to punish him yet not cause a huge stain on the on-going season is to simply suspend him and move on. It is a complete guess on my part and I've been wrong before...I just don't think they'll be vacating anything (unless the ruling comes after the season, in which case there isn't much else that could be done).
Whether Cam knew or not, according to the rule is quite irrelevant. The fact that "a rep. of his solicited" is the only point of contention. If there is corroboration with Miss. St. on this point, and it is discovered and released quickly, he's toast. Not his fault most likely, and a sad testament to the state of collegiate football, but there exists little wiggle room according to the rule. -
centralbucksfanytownfootball;560944 wrote:Whether Cam knew or not, according to the rule is quite irrelevant. The fact that "a rep. of his solicited" is the only point of contention. If there is corroboration with Miss. St. on this point, and it is discovered and released quickly, he's toast. Not his fault most likely, and a sad testament to the state of collegiate football, but there exists little wiggle room according to the rule.
Well, we really don't know, and may never know if Cam was involved or not. But based on some past history that certainly throws his character into question...I wouldn't go jumping to the conclusion that he had nothing to do with this situation. -
enigmaaxytownfootball;560944 wrote:Whether Cam knew or not, according to the rule is quite irrelevant. The fact that "a rep. of his solicited" is the only point of contention. If there is corroboration with Miss. St. on this point, and it is discovered and released quickly, he's toast. Not his fault most likely, and a sad testament to the state of collegiate football, but there exists little wiggle room according to the rule.
If I thought the NCAA was always consistent, fair, etc. I might agree with you. Since the "wiggle room" is determined entirely by the NCAA, itself, and since we don't know exactly what evidence they have (or the extent of credibility to force the issue), I'm just guessing there's going to be some kind of compromise. -
ytownfootball
centralbucksfan;560951 wrote:Well, we really don't know, and may never know if Cam was involved or not. But based on some past history that certainly throws his character into question...I wouldn't go jumping to the conclusion that he had nothing to do with this situation.
I am willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, though you're right, a shady past doesn't help with his perception. I just tend to believe Cecil is by far the main perpetrator in this whole mess, and continues to screw things up and make them worse. -
ytownfootball
enigmaax;560970 wrote:If I thought the NCAA was always consistent, fair, etc. I might agree with you. Since the "wiggle room" is determined entirely by the NCAA, itself, and since we don't know exactly what evidence they have (or the extent of credibility to force the issue), I'm just guessing there's going to be some kind of compromise.
Lack of subpoena powers makes this a difficult thing to do. Were it not for the Reggie Bush fiasco, I would lean a lot more heavily in the direction you are. I think at this point though, the Heisman committee, and those who stand to have the most embarrassment thrust upon them with a latter day "conviction" will have a lot more influence than they did in the Bush case. Just my thoughts though, you may be right. -
krambman
enigmaax;560922 wrote:If found guilty, protocol would certainly call for Auburn to vacate wins. However, I don't think the NCAA is going to go that route, especially if they do make a ruling before the end of this season. The gray areas being that he may not have actually taken money and he may not have actually known about it and that Auburn may not have had anything to do with it. So a great way to punish him yet not cause a huge stain on the on-going season is to simply suspend him and move on. It is a complete guess on my part and I've been wrong before...I just don't think they'll be vacating anything (unless the ruling comes after the season, in which case there isn't much else that could be done).
In a lot of way this case is somewhat similar to the situation that got Jim O'Brian fired. O'Brian gave $3,000 to a recruit that didn't even come to Ohio State. It had no effect on any games played by Ohio State as he was never on the team, yet OSU had to vacate an entire season of wins, give back a Big Ten championship trophy, and remove 1998 from their Final Four banner. Here we have a situation where someone asked for upwards of $200,000 from a school, didn't get it, and went elsewhere. If Newton never received any money and if Auburn never knew about any of this then his current school never broke any rules and he never broke any while there, yet they would still be held liable. Precedent tells me that wins would be vacated. Also, with as hard as the NCAA came down on USC basically making an example out of them, I highly doubt that they would go easy on this situation.
Part of the problem that this will take long is because the NCAA usually doesn't look at things unless a school self-reports, and while MSU did report, no one really self-reported. The reason that things like the agent scandal early in the year with UNC went quickly was because the school self-reported and because everyone pretty much confessed. If Cecil Newton really has confessed then this should be easy to close, determine punishment, and move on. If Auburn plays in the National Championship with Newton and he's later declare ineligible then the title is vacated if they won, and if they lost there will always be questions as to whether or not Oregon would have beaten Boise or TCU or whoever would have benefited from Auburn being held out of the title game. -
enigmaaxkrambman;561183 wrote:In a lot of way this case is somewhat similar to the situation that got Jim O'Brian fired. O'Brian gave $3,000 to a recruit that didn't even come to Ohio State. It had no effect on any games played by Ohio State as he was never on the team, yet OSU had to vacate an entire season of wins, give back a Big Ten championship trophy, and remove 1998 from their Final Four banner. Here we have a situation where someone asked for upwards of $200,000 from a school, didn't get it, and went elsewhere. If Newton never received any money and if Auburn never knew about any of this then his current school never broke any rules and he never broke any while there, yet they would still be held liable. Precedent tells me that wins would be vacated. Also, with as hard as the NCAA came down on USC basically making an example out of them, I highly doubt that they would go easy on this situation.
Part of the problem that this will take long is because the NCAA usually doesn't look at things unless a school self-reports, and while MSU did report, no one really self-reported. The reason that things like the agent scandal early in the year with UNC went quickly was because the school self-reported and because everyone pretty much confessed. If Cecil Newton really has confessed then this should be easy to close, determine punishment, and move on. If Auburn plays in the National Championship with Newton and he's later declare ineligible then the title is vacated if they won, and if they lost there will always be questions as to whether or not Oregon would have beaten Boise or TCU or whoever would have benefited from Auburn being held out of the title game.
The big difference there being that it was Ohio State's coach who gave the money. Here, Auburn has no one directly involvement (only indirect in that Newton went there after the alleged actions). I just don't see them declaring Newton retroactively ineligible if there are games out there where he can serve a penalty. Also, I think someone alluded to this in a quoted article or something - if Auburn felt there was any chance this was going to turn against them, even retroactively, wouldn't they have sat him by now?
Again, if this runs past the end of the season it is a whole different outlook.
Honest question, refresh my memory on the Troy Smith thing. When had he allegedly taken money in relation to the season itself, as well as his suspension? -
Midstate01
why would they sit him. If the story is true, AU will be facing stiff penalties anyway. So why not go all in and just let him play till someone rules him ineligible. They'd be stupid to sit him now! -
j_crazy
another day with little/no new development. i'm telling you the NCAA wants this to go away for now and they'll deal with it later. the clock is ticking to make this right for this year (assuming there is something there) and they just twiddle their thumbs and watch the world go by. Bush 2.0 I'm calling it now. -
TiernanNew developments today - Miss St source is claiming he has the "payment plan" SCam and his Dad requested for the money distribution. It's actually kinda comical how ghetto the payment plan is. Shows the level of brains behind the operation...Auburn is going down just like SC before this is ova!
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krambman
Tiernan;563945 wrote:New developments today - Miss St source is claiming he has the "payment plan" SCam and his Dad requested for the money distribution. It's actually kinda comical how ghetto the payment plan is. Shows the level of brains behind the operation...Auburn is going down just like SC before this is ova!
http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/16917/texts-included-newton-payment-plan -
bigkahunaThe big question is what is the NCAA going to do with all of these text messages and voice mails?
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Tiernan^^^
Hopefully dig deep into the entire SEC football factory - about 10 yrs too late. -
jordo212000
Yeah if Bill Bell can get the old texts, then Newton's goose is cooked. However, as much as I want to see Auburn/Newton go away, I had to chuckle a little when I saw that the phone that contained the texts "had been damaged with water". I've heard that one a million times.... -
jhay78
From an LSU message board . . .
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/MessageTopic.asp?p=22778676&Pg=1
More than you'll ever want to know about the Cam Newton saga.
The Rodgers/Bodn/Mullen/Cecil/SEC/NCAA/FBI Timeline (as per TD poster Ilovebama):
• Before 2009 Egg Bowl, Ken Rodgers talked with Cecil, who said "It's not gonna be free this time."
• Nov 27th, 2009 Ken Rodgers meets Cam and Dan, for the first time.
• Nov 27th, 2009 Ken, Cecil, and two coaches meet at Hilton Garden Inn, where Cecil says "Anywhere between $100,000 and $180,000." coaches respond ‘No, no, I don’t want to hear that,’
• Nov 29th, 2009 Ken leaves Bill Bell a voicemail asking if the deal is going to get done
• Bell was contacted by Cecil Newton asking for money
• Bell calls Bond and urges Bond to tell MSU officials.
• Bond calls Byrne
• Dec 14th, 2009 Cam pushes committing back to Dec 22nd, 2009
• Dec 20th, 2009 Cam visits Auburn, Dad was not there
• Cam commits Dec 31st
Trevon Reed is a solid to Strong LSU verbal, until very late in the process when he abruptly changes his mind to Auburn, against the better judgment of his high school coach. Similar waffling is also experienced with Dyer, Coleman, and Others. It has been mentioned there exists a recorded conversation between TTaylor and McGregor discussing the progress in wrapping up this class. To paraphrase, ”… just one more deal to cut and it’s all done. Then there’s a mention of needing $200K to close it out.” -
OneBuckeye
More rumors from a bama board.
http://forum.tidesports.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15506
This scenario seems most likely to me. I hope it is. I want to see him crash and burn.TOS Insider wrote:
Someone forwarded me a story out of Montgomery that, if true, really means Auburn and Newton are dirty. Here it is :
McGregor and 10 others are scheduled for arraignment Friday morning in federal court in Montgomery on charges accusing them of buying and selling votes on pro-gambling legislation.
The bigger picture here is that the Feds have been investigating Milton McGregor (A major Auburn Booster and the owner of VictoryLand, which is located just outside of Montgomery) for quite some time. The Feds are investigating efforts to pass gambling legislation in Alabama and money laundering schemes involving McGregor and other prominent Alabama politicians and Auburn boosters.
The Feds have tape from wire taps made on McGregor and other prominent Auburn boosters from their investigation. The Newton's were just shopping their talent's to the wrong people at the wrong time and thus there is hard evidence available that incriminates everyone involved. It's only a matter of time that all of this information becomes public.
FBI found out about Cam before the NCAA did while wiretapping Milton McGregor and others related to the casino/bingo indictments. They uncovered conversations with McGregor, Auburn and Cam's uncle in Michigan. McGregor paid $250K to the uncle through a PAC and other hidden entities and the uncle funneled the money to Cecil.
The FBI gave this information to the NCAA sometime after the indictments were handed down. They had to sit on the information for 6 months until the grand jury indicted the men and women in the gambling deal. All of the wiretap information was sealed and that is why the delay in investigating. The NCAA had to go to Miss St to see if Cecil had solicited money from them as well. That is why Miss St is involved. They are basically connecting all of the dots. Miss St may be cleared because they told Cecil no. He then went to Auburn. The offer was on the table from McGregor but Cam wanted to play at Miss St and not Auburn. When Miss St declined to pay him, he went to where the money was... hence the comment, "The money was too much." The FBI met with the Miss St coaches, John Bond and Bill Bell today to get their official statements. -
OneBuckeye
I am interested to see what happens after friday...
TMZ report linking mcgregor and newton
http://www.tmz.com/2010/11/17/cam-newton-fbi-investigation-probe-auburn-university-booster-milton-mcgregor-sec-football-ncaa/
According to sources connected to the probe ... FBI agents looking into the Newton recruiting controversy are also asking about Milton McGregor -- a dog track owner arrested last month for allegedly bribing Alabama politicians to vote pro gambling.
We're told agents asked someone connected to the Newton case if he was familiar with McGregor or the bribery scandal.
It's unclear what, if any, direct connection McGregor has to Newton. Back in 2008, McGregor did donate a million bucks toward construction of a new arena at Auburn.
McGregor did not return a call for comment. -
OneBuckeye
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9J4V0O80.htm
article that details the wire taps in question.
A federal prosecutor revealed Thursday that investigators tapped the phone calls of two casino owners and a casino lobbyist before issuing indictments in Alabama's gambling probe.
Justice Department prosecutor Peter Ainsworth said in a court hearing that investigators recorded thousands of phone calls involving VictoryLand owner Milton McGregor, Country Crossing developer Ronnie Gilley and that casino's lobbyist Jarrod Massey.
Those three and eight others were arrested Oct. 4, accused of buying and selling votes on pro-gambling legislation. The indictment recounted phone conversations between some of them, but it did not reveal publicly which parties' phones were tapped. The first public disclosure came Thursday.
Prosecutors have given defense attorneys tape recordings of 3,000 intercepted calls they say are pertinent to the bribery and conspiracy charges against the defendants. A federal judge will hold a hearing Wednesday on whether prosecutors must turn over several thousand more.
Ainsworth said more than 1,000 of the calls were between defendants and their attorneys or their spouses, and 7,800 were not pertinent to the investigation.
"It might have been a conversation about a golf game or Saturday's football game," he said.
In addition to the tapes of 3,000 phone calls, defense attorneys said they have received more than 100,000 pages of documents from prosecutors. Turning over that information is required of prosecutors so defense attorneys can prepare for a trial scheduled April 4.
The federal investigation coincided with Gov. Bob Riley's gambling task force working to shut down all non-Indian casinos in Alabama. McGregor's VictoryLand in Shorter and Gilley's Country Crossing in Dothan closed their electronic bingo casinos to prevent raids by Riley's task force. -
ytownfootball
Well one thing you can't deny is that there seems to be a hell of a lot of smoke here...
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OneBuckeye
Another quote from tigerdroppings...
The final gem of the day came from TD Poster "Tuck", on pg. 68 of Egg's "Mega Thread"
some more goodness, not from BOL though:
quote:
The FBI has been investigating Colonial Bank and Louder for a number
of possible violations in the financial market crash which are
unrelated to AU. Part of the investigation involved gambling fraud
between McGregor and Colonial Bank. Something called the Rico Stature
allowed the justice department to set up wiretaps on Colonial Bank.
On the wiretaps the FBI found major AU recruiting infractions involving
Louder, McGregor, Dye, Trooper, boosters and others.
Here?s what they say the FBI has on tape and can prove AU did:
? The people above are on tape explaining who they paid and how they did it.
? It involves many AU players
? Providing unmarked Colonial Bank ATM cards to players to withdraw
money from secret accounts.
? Giving ?slot machine cards? to the players, which now involves the
Alabama Gaming Commission.
? Provided improper loans to some of the families in our last and
current recruiting class.
? The NCAA ?strongly? recommended that AU sit Cam for GA. game because
of the mounting evidence.
? President Grogue wanted to sit Cam but was overruled by Louder and
the Board of Trustees.
? Coach Chizik knows none of this and has been lied to by Jacobs.
? The people named above know the S%#& is going to hit the fan ?big
time? and have decided ?we?re going down? so lets win the title even
if they take it away later.
? Slive knew about this early and sat on the information and is also
in the ?crosshairs? of the FBI..
? The corruption is so deep at the highest level (trustees) that AU
will be evicted from kicked out of the SEC.
? This will be revealed by the end of the week. -
enigmaaxWow. The ante certainly has been upped.
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ytownfootball
enigmaax;564320 wrote:Wow. The ante certainly has been upped.
Yeah no doubt, didn't hear half this much two years into Reggie. -
se-alum
Yea, he's done. Way too elaborate for all this to just be rumor. I kinda figured the investigation may have been slow, because Auburn wasn't cooperating, but this is on a whole 'nother level. -
j_crazy
act soon NCAA.
