Healthcare Passes 219-212

• CenterBHSFan

  

  This is a few days old. It's from a local news/radio station morning talk show. It's an insightful debate between a democrat and republican analysts about healthcare and what is to be done now.
  About 2/3 of the way through it, the rhetoric from both sides starts to break down and come to the cruxt of the matter. One guy thinks that in the future, states can slowly regain their status over the federal government, and the other guy thinks that is wrong and wonders what would happen to the federal government - and why it would even be needed anymore.
  
  http://www.wwva.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=BLOOMDADDY.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/WHEELING-WV/WWVA-AM/3-24 political paparazzi.mp3?CPROG=PCAST?CCOMRRMID&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=WHEELING-WV&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&NG_ID=wwva1170am&OR_NEWSFORMAT=&OWNER=&SERVER_NAME=www.wwva.com&SITE_ID=1286&STATION_ID=WWVA-AM&TRACK=
  
  I think this is the genesis for most of the discontent in today's politics. One set believes that the states should be able to operate as they were originally intended. The other set believes that the states should always relinquish and defer their power to the federal government in DC.
  It almost totally sets the stage in the conservative/liberal "fight" (for lack of a better word) that we see going on today.
• IggyPride00

  

  The House just passed the reconciliation bill again. Obama is just ramming things through at will right now.
  
  His presidency has gone from being dead in the water 2 months ago to doing seemingly whatever he wants at this point. Even scarier is his poll numbers are rising again.
  
  If Barak Hussein Obama (mmm, mmm, mmm) was dangerous enough during the wounded period of his presidency to pass a health bill presidents have been trying to do for a century now, how scary will a newly emboldened Obama be with the wind at his back after a huge legislative victory?
• QuakerOats

  You see how fast things can deteriorate when a dictator rises to power and the media abdicates their responsibility.
  
  
  Not pretty ...................... and not going to get any better for a loooooog time........... unless THE PEOPLE rise up in November
• gibby08

  

  The ignorance among some of you is simply amazing
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  gibby08 wrote: The ignorance among some of you is simply amazing

  I'm going to dish out some advice my friend. Chill.
  Don't let the fact that some of the posters here don't agree with your thinking, or do not adhere to your chain of logic. I disagree with many people on this board, but do not really call them out (with a few exceptions) and attack them. I can understand the frustration, as Quaker annoys me a lot as well. But, I usually don't resort to name calling, and profanity to explain my points. I just disagree with him, that is it.
  
  Now, LJ has granted you the ability to still post here, but attacking people and getting really pissed only invites attacks on you. Take a chill pill when you read the board, take a breath, and then construct your counter without resorting to profanity and personal attacks (calling people idiots, etc.)
  
  Just my advise, and I suggest you take it seriously.
• gibby08

  

  My statement is the truth ptown...
  
  Anyone here on this forum who thinks our country is a dictaorship is ignorant and should be told as much
• IggyPride00

  

  The loud groan you heard across the nation at 9:00 tonight was the banking and private student loan industry now that the government has cut them off of the free money they were getting through student loan subsidies. They tried like hell to stop it, but unfortunately only needing 50 votes they couldn't buy off enough Senators to ensure it never passed.
  
  Obama has his target set squarely on the financial services sector next as politically that will be extremely difficult for Republicans to fend off attacks on.
  
  BHO is bringing his agenda to all Americans whether they like it or not.
• RedBlackAttack

  

  CenterBHSFan wrote: I think this is the genesis for most of the discontent in today's politics. One set believes that the states should be able to operate as they were originally intended. The other set believes that the states should always relinquish and defer their power to the federal government in DC.
  It almost totally sets the stage in the conservative/liberal "fight" (for lack of a better word) that we see going on today.

  
  It is not nearly that black-and-white, BHSFan. I am generally progressive when it comes to social programs, but there are plenty of issues that I think should be left up to the states. On the other side, I'm sure amongst conservatives, there are certain issues that the federal government should have power over.
  
  When you speak in generalities about things as complex as political ideologies, it almost never paints an accurate picture. I've had plenty of political conversations with conservative friends and we almost always end up agreeing on more than we disagree upon.
  
  The gap between progressive leaning people and those that lean conservative is not the giant gulf that some would like to portray. There is plenty of middle ground to be occupied and intelligent discourse should always trump back-and-forth blathering (ie: fight) between the extreme wings in the parties.
  
  ptown,
  Wouldn't you agree that Quaker purposely instigates that kind of response with his demeaning and argumentative rhetoric? Does he get to post with impunity while those that dare respond to his nonsense are given the boot?
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  gibby08 wrote: My statement is the truth ptown...
  
  Anyone here on this forum who thinks our country is a dictaorship is ignorant and should be told as much

  Yea, not saying I disagree with you, just the way you are going about doing it. Profanity laden posts, in which you are pissed off, or using straight talking points while calling other people out is not the way to go. Your approach leads to attacks on you, and here you are greatly outnumbered.
  

  RedBlackAttack wrote:
  ptown,
  Wouldn't you agree that Quaker purposely instigates that kind of response with his demeaning and argumentative rhetoric? Does he get to post with impunity while those that dare respond to his nonsense are given the boot?

  Quaker's post, while largely talking points of the conservative movement, is usually not targeted at one particular poster. That is the difference.
  
  I largely ignore them, or just laugh them off. The uses of socialists and tyrant is a stretch, in which I may or may not start cracking down on. That said, this is still LJ's board, so he ultimately makes and really enforces the rules.
• eersandbeers

  QuakerOats wrote: You see how fast things can deteriorate when a dictator rises to power and the media abdicates their responsibility.
  

  
  Correct. The media shirking their responsibilities gave us the Iraq War.
  
  
  Let's hope the states can come through with their lawsuits.
• I Wear Pants

  IggyPride00 wrote: The loud groan you heard across the nation at 9:00 tonight was the banking and private student loan industry now that the government has cut them off of the free money they were getting through student loan subsidies. They tried like hell to stop it, but unfortunately only needing 50 votes they couldn't buy off enough Senators to ensure it never passed.
  
  Obama has his target set squarely on the financial services sector next as politically that will be extremely difficult for Republicans to fend off attacks on.
  
  BHO is bringing his agenda to all Americans whether they like it or not.

  Is it because the banking industry has failed to police itself on a scale unrivaled in any other industry (I can't think of another)?
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I Wear Pants wrote: Is it because the banking industry has failed to police itself on a scale unrivaled in any other industry (I can't think of another)?

  I can. It's called the federal government.
• IggyPride00

  

  Correct. The media shirking their responsibilities gave us the Iraq War.

  And a nuclear armed Iran, who no longer had to worry about a credible military option as we were stretched too thin in their neighboring countries.
• eersandbeers

  IggyPride00 wrote:

  Correct. The media shirking their responsibilities gave us the Iraq War.

  And a nuclear armed Iran, who no longer had to worry about a credible military option as we were stretched too thin in their neighboring countries.

  True enough. But I think complete support from Russia and China is also ensuring a nuclear Iran.
• jhay78

  

  gibby08 wrote:

  jhay78 wrote:

  IggyPride00 wrote: The President was mocking the GOP and Tea Partiers in his speech about health care today.
  

  Obama repeats a line he used the day he signed the health care reform law, mocking Republicans for predicting "Armageddon" upon its passage. "End of freedom as we know it!" he proclaims. "Asteroids falling. Some cracks opening up in the earth. Turned out, it was a nice day. Birds were chirping. Folks were strolling down the Mall. People still had their doctors.

  This is going to do nothing to lessen the seething anger out there among a good size part of the nation.

  Arrogant BS like that is what sets me over the edge with this guy, and may as well include Pelosi, Reid, and anyone else leading this band of barking moonbats. I remember the Tea Partiers getting together last April 15th, and he was making fun of them then too.
  
  So much for the great unifier, and the end of politics as usual in Washington. This clown was entrusted with the highest office in the land, in the greatest country in the world, and he is an absolute disgrace to that position.

  Please,Please,Please,Please explain to me how he is a disgrace to the position?? Is it because you simply don't like him?
  
  I'll wait for your answer
  
  As for the statement...he isn't wrong

  The President of the United States taking time out of his busy day to mock ordinary citizens who oppose his agenda is a disgrace.
  
  I stand by my statement.
  
  He's not a juvenile, or a poster on OhioChatter.com, he's the President. It's one thing to mock political opponents (even that's lame), it's another to rub it in the faces of 62% of the population (polled by CBS) who don't like your bill.
• RedBlackAttack

  

  jhay78 wrote:

  gibby08 wrote:

  jhay78 wrote:

  IggyPride00 wrote: The President was mocking the GOP and Tea Partiers in his speech about health care today.
  

  Obama repeats a line he used the day he signed the health care reform law, mocking Republicans for predicting "Armageddon" upon its passage. "End of freedom as we know it!" he proclaims. "Asteroids falling. Some cracks opening up in the earth. Turned out, it was a nice day. Birds were chirping. Folks were strolling down the Mall. People still had their doctors.

  This is going to do nothing to lessen the seething anger out there among a good size part of the nation.

  Arrogant BS like that is what sets me over the edge with this guy, and may as well include Pelosi, Reid, and anyone else leading this band of barking moonbats. I remember the Tea Partiers getting together last April 15th, and he was making fun of them then too.
  
  So much for the great unifier, and the end of politics as usual in Washington. This clown was entrusted with the highest office in the land, in the greatest country in the world, and he is an absolute disgrace to that position.

  Please,Please,Please,Please explain to me how he is a disgrace to the position?? Is it because you simply don't like him?
  
  I'll wait for your answer
  
  As for the statement...he isn't wrong

  The President of the United States taking time out of his busy day to mock ordinary citizens who oppose his agenda is a disgrace.
  
  I stand by my statement.
  
  He's not a juvenile, or a poster on OhioChatter.com, he's the President. It's one thing to mock political opponents (even that's lame), it's another to rub it in the faces of 62% of the population (polled by CBS) who don't like your bill.

  I doubt a poll would show that 62% of the population believes that the healthcare reform is a sign of the coming Apocalypse. He wasn't mocking everyone who may have reservations about the bill. He was making a point about a complete overreaction by a tiny segment of his detractors.
• I Wear Pants

  It is the same as if W. Bush would have said during the signing of the Patriot Act "he he, yeah, I'm listenin' in to all yer calls. Don't forget the milk, dinner's at seven."
  
  Which would have been funny. I still would disagree with the bill but it doesn't hurt to laugh at ourselves every once in a while.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I Wear Pants wrote: It is the same as if W. Bush would have said during the signing of the Patriot Act "he he, yeah, I'm listenin' in to all yer calls. Don't forget the milk, dinner's at seven."
  
  Which would have been funny. I still would disagree with the bill but it doesn't hurt to laugh at ourselves every once in a while.

  "If" and "would have been" is not the same thing as "has done".
  ........................
  
  If you want to laugh at yourself, fine. Have at it.
  
  I find it very distasteful and disgraceful that the President of the United States of American chose to mock millions of the American people.
  Millions.
  I sat in the lobby of a doctors office who had CNN on the tv and watched him do it. Somebody turned up the volume a bit and all (about 9-11 people) couldn't believe what they were hearing. These were people from all walks of life, and no doubt from various political viewpoints.
  In fact, there were certain statements that could arguably be claimed that were downright taunting.
  I do not think, whatsoever, that it is a graceful thing for a President of our country to be speaking about and to the American people in that manner. It is not funny in my eyes, either and I'm ashamed of him for doing it.
• fish82

  

  Hot off the press.....55% favor repeal of Obamacare...including 59% of independent voters.
  
  http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/55_favor_repeal_of_health_care_bill
• QuakerOats

  RedBlackAttack wrote: ptown,
  Wouldn't you agree that Quaker purposely instigates that kind of response with his demeaning and argumentative rhetoric? Does he get to post with impunity while those that dare respond to his nonsense are given the boot?

  I didn't instigate anything. I am not one of the 219 instigators (and their activist/agitator leader) that just rammed through disastrous legislation against the WILL OF THE PEOPLE that will loot my wallet and cripple this country.
  
  I am attempting to help THE PEOPLE defend their constitution -- their only barrier between liberty and government encroachment.
  
  THE PEOPLE are not going to take this 'treatment' any more ----- sorry you don't like it.
• dwccrew

  

  I Wear Pants wrote:
  
  
  Is a Porsche the right car for everyone?

  No, it is not; but you are comparing apples to oranges. We are comparing a tangible commodity to an intangible service. So for the best healthcare possible, the price tag will be higher. Just like the best education will be the most expensive.
  

  I Wear Pants wrote:
  Also, why is it so hard to realize that the traditional college student going straight from high school, 4 years in college and coming out with a degree doesn't happen nearly as often anymore.

  I realize this happens, but it has much more to do with kids changing their majors more often (because many more programs have been added) and the fact that once they graduate, it is a poor job market; so many return to school for continuing education i.e. Master's programs.
  
  I still think that after nearly 8 years removed from high school, you should either have a job while going to school or just realize school isn't for you. Not everyone is cut-out to go to school. IF people in this country would realize that, we'd be better off. People have lived beyond their means in this country for a long time and that is part of the reason we're in the mess we're in.
  
  I know I am not cut-out to be a doctor, so I never pursued that in school, I went a different route in college. Now I am 27, living very comfortably with a great job and I have insurance.
  

  I Wear Pants wrote: There are many more people now who are in their mid-twenties and still in school. This doesn't make them a failure or lazy or incapable of living on their own.

  No one said it did make them a failure or lazy, I am just saying they shouldn't have to remain on their parents insurance. I know many people are staying in school just because they can't find a job. So what happens when many people in their 30's continue their education and don't have insurance? Do we pass another bill?
  
  

  I Wear Pants wrote: They are just doing it differently. Chill out. If you're enrolled full time in college you shouldn't have to worry that you couldn't afford to get sick because you couldn't afford medication or the doctor. Maybe you can worry that you can't afford to get sick because you can't miss class but you shouldn't have to choose between buying your books/paying tuition and buying medicine or a doctor's visit.

  Many universities have medical coverage as a part of tuition. I know that at the University of Toledo (where I graduated from) they offered insurance with your tuition. Many schools that have medical centers do this, so I doubt that many college kids, even in their mid 20's, go uncovered. It will be the adults in their mid-20's that have no job and are not in college that will benefit from this. More welfare in a sense.
• QuakerOats

  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/03/25/msnbc_host_time_for_socialism_in_talk_radio.html
• Little Danny

  

  Absolutely spot on dwccrew. I think an unintended consequence people will soon discover is that people will be forced to work longer as a result of keeping their children on their policies until the age of 26. First of all, consider that is an extra eight years of additional health costs deducted from the parents pay check that could have gone into retirement savings. Second, what if you want to retire at age 55 and your child is only 20 years old? Will a responsible person keep working for another six years to keep their child insured? I guess the 55 year old could retire and the 20 year old's health insurance could be picked up by the govt.
• IggyPride00

  

  AT&T announces $1 billion dollar write down they will have to take for next quarter because of the new health care bill.
  
  "This....is what change looks like."
• derek bomar

  

  IggyPride00 wrote: AT&T announces $1 billion dollar write down they will have to take for next quarter because of the new health care bill.
  
  "This....is what change looks like."

  link?