Healthcare Passes 219-212

• OneBuckeye

  

  One Example: Catterpillar estimates it will raise their cost of providing health care to their associates by 100 millions dollars.
  
  http://news.morningstar.com/newsnet/ViewNews.aspx?article=/DJ/201003190758DOWJONESDJONLINE000438_univ.xml
  

  In a letter Thursday to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.) and House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio, Caterpillar urged lawmakers to vote against the plan "because of the substantial cost burdens it would place on our shareholders, employees and retirees."
  
  Caterpillar, the world's largest construction machinery manufacturer by sales, said it's particularly opposed to provisions in the bill that would expand Medicare taxes and mandate insurance coverage. The legislation would require nearly all companies to provide health insurance for their employees or face large fines.
  
  The Peoria, Ill., company said these provisions would increase its insurance costs by at least 20%, or more than $100 million, just in the first year of the health-care overhaul program.
  
  "We can ill-afford cost increases that place us at a disadvantage versus our global competitors," said the letter signed by Gregory Folley, vice president and chief human resources officer of Caterpillar. "We are disappointed that efforts at reform have not addressed the cost concerns we've raised throughout the year."
  
  Business executives have long complained that the options offered for covering 32 million uninsured Americans would result in higher insurance costs for those employers that already provide coverage. Opponents have stepped up their attacks in recent days as the House moves closer toward a vote on the Senate version of the health-care legislation.
  
  A letter Thursday to President Barack Obama and members of Congress signed by more than 130 economists predicted the legislation would discourage companies from hiring more workers and would cause reduced hours and wages for those already employed.
  
  Caterpillar noted that the company supports efforts to increase the quality and the value of health care for patients as well as lower costs for employer- sponsored insurance coverage.
  
  "Unfortunately, neither the current legislation in the House and Senate, nor the president's proposal, meets these goals," the letter said.

• Apple

  

  You have to pay into it, at the force of jail and/or fine. Never before has a federal law been passed that forces the people to buy a good or service.
  
  You will be paying into it for four years before any services are provided.
  
  Unions with "Cadillac Coverage" will not be required to pay tax on the policies until 2018. Virtually everyone else pays tax on it beginning immediately.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  The government got bigger, private sector got smaller, that's why it's bad for all of us.
• queencitybuckeye

  Without regard to whether the legislation is worth a shit, it's just another program that we simply can't afford. We'll pay for it in the short term with the inflation that's sure to come, in the long term with an economy that will never reach the heights we once enjoyed.
• KnightRyder

  

  Belly35 wrote: If this is the type of process "self-executing” Obama Administration, Reid and Pelosi are willing to take to get this HealthCare Bill passed …that tells me this Healthcare Bill is a fraud and scam and should be thrown out with the other trash in Congress and Senate on both sides.
  
  If this is what Obama Administration, Reid and Pelosi and the other Socialist/Liberals want and how they are going to push their agenda …then “WE THE PEOPLE” will speak next…………. I have live through the Race Riots, Vietnam Protest and Public Disorder of Political Demonstration of the 60’s and early 70’s …. I care not the revisit those times ever again but will if I have to for the protection of my children and grand children freedom.
  
  I urge everyone to call, write, e-mail or call your Congressman and Senator voicing your objection to this agenda of self-executing, reconciliation and corruption of the American Constitution.
  
  This is no longer about Healthcare this is about a socialist agenda and corrupt government vs “WE THE PEOPLE” that believe in the Constitution of the United State of America.

  hilarious
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Well, the government cannot manage efficiently, controll or handle the enterprises it already had set up. So, it sold a Big Pretty to do even more nonsense.
  
  Ain't it great? :dodgy:
• cbus4life

  Lol @ Obama doing away with the Supreme Court.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  SQ_Crazies wrote: The government got bigger, private sector got smaller, that's why it's bad for all of us.

  I really don't care what the legislation says, or whether it is good or bad for us. This statement is all I really care about. Regardless of good/bad, the government has just taken away some of our freedom, and we let them.
• mucalum49

  

  ernest_t_bass wrote:

  SQ_Crazies wrote: The government got bigger, private sector got smaller, that's why it's bad for all of us.

  I really don't care what the legislation says, or whether it is good or bad for us. This statement is all I really care about. Regardless of good/bad, the government has just taken away some of our freedom, and we let them.

  I wouldn't say the country let them. This bill is very unpopular with all the polls I saw. Knowing that and then having the "representatives of the people" vote in favor of it baffles me.
• visionquest

  Ok, the more people post, the more I get upset about this.
• OneBuckeye

  

  On the surface it has good intentions: Help the little guy who can't afford insurance and help people getting screwed by insurance companies.
  In reality not so much: It hurts the majority of the population and helps a minority and adversly affects the economics of the US at the same time.
• pinstriper

  Congress should be worried obviously, but they're not out of the woods yet. In order to make a change to the constitution thre needs to be a constitutional conference called by the states. At that time, 3/4 of the states can vote to amend the constitution...as it stands now, there are 37 or 38 states that are talking about bringing forth legislation agianst this bill. It would take 38 states (76%) to amend the constitution and ban this bill. The next year or so will be interesting to say the least.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  OneBuckeye wrote: On the surface it has good intentions: Help the little guy who can't afford insurance and help people getting screwed by insurance companies.
  In reality not so much: It hurts the majority of the population and helps a minority and adversly affects the economics of the US at the same time.

  Which goes against everything modern economics says. A government should provide a public good when the benefits outweigh the costs. If the majority of the population is hurt by this, how do the benefits outweigh the costs?
• 4cards

  

  ^^^^^
  You should be upset. Your representatives in government just told you and your opinion on this health bill to go fuck yourself & then have the audacity to tell us it's good for you no matter what it cost the taxpayers in terms of out of pocket expense or job loss. In the midterm elections, remember who voted for it and then elect whoever is running against them. This way you tell the current legislator to go fuck HIMSELF.....
  
  In my case.....Tim Ryan, you're fucking done!
• OneBuckeye

  

  ernest_t_bass wrote:

  OneBuckeye wrote: On the surface it has good intentions: Help the little guy who can't afford insurance and help people getting screwed by insurance companies.
  In reality not so much: It hurts the majority of the population and helps a minority and adversly affects the economics of the US at the same time.

  Which goes against everything modern economics says. A government should provide a public good when the benefits outweigh the costs. If the majority of the population is hurt by this, how do the benefits outweigh the costs?

  That is the $1,000,000,000 question. Obviously the democrates feel that helping those in need is more important than helping those who are not. Or at least give the appearance they are fighting for the little guy.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  visionquest wrote: Ok, the more people post, the more I get upset about this.

  Not picking on you VQ, but this is why people should pay a little more attention to what is going on around them. Neglect breeds apathy.
  
  I know it is easy to get absorbed in just going through the day to day life. This is compounded even more so by the currently economic situation everybody is experiencing - by the day's end, people are exhausted. It's hard to find the energy to want to read about anything political or futuristic.
  
  Many people don't like politics, many people don't want to get into the politics forum, and many people just want to agitate. BUT, the forum is a great recorder of how people's thoughts change over the course of time. For instance, one of President Obama's avid supporters started off totally for this new "health care" bill. They are now disgusted with the final language of the bill, how events transpired, and the general dirty dealings. Watching that happen is a very thought-provoking thing.
  
  Really, if more people paid attention, instead of remaining passive, perhaps certain things could be prevented from taking place. Perhaps.
• devil1197

  I am 22 and have come to realize that there is little to nothing that a regular guy like me can do to change issues like the one above. Yes, I know go out and vote but honestly it just doesn't matter anymore.
  
  So I'll go on with my life and not get tied up in politics. Not worth the stress of worrying about things.
• OneBuckeye

  

  http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/22/health.care.roundup/index.html?hpt=C1
  
  This is a good article from CNN of all sources with all kinds of views, but most are of course negative. The only opinions with no negatives are the liberal bleeding hearts.
  
  Some good stuff is below.
  

  Kevin Pho, a primary care physician in Nashua, New Hampshire, who blogs at KevinMD.com:
  
  With health reform passing the House, a comprehensive overhaul of our health care system draws another step closer.
  
  Coverage will expand to cover nearly 95 percent of legal U.S. residents. With a recent study showing that patients without health insurance have a shorter life span, coupled with the number of uninsured approaching 50 million in 2010, that is perhaps the biggest reason to cheer.
  
  But with a critical shortage of primary care providers, these newly insured patients may have nowhere to turn for medical care. Massachusetts, the only state that offers universal coverage, suffers from some of the worst primary care wait times in the country despite having the highest concentration of doctors nationwide.
  
  Health reform tries to help, mostly by modestly increasing both Medicaid and Medicare payments to primary care clinicians. But it's not nearly enough to convince medical students, already grappling with crippling school debt, who continue to gravitate toward lucrative specialty practice.
  
  And what about the current primary care work force, where, according to a study in the Annals of Internal Medicine, more than a quarter of doctors reported being burnt out and 30 percent indicated they would leave the field within five years? Health reform gives few solutions to alleviate the bureaucratic obstacles and time pressures that frustrate doctors and impede their relationship with patients.
  
  Finally, the mere $50 million allotted to medical malpractice reform doesn't help patients hurt by medical mistakes, who are trapped in a dysfunctional system where one in six receives no financial compensation, the average case takes five years to resolve, and 54 cents of every awarded dollar go to pay legal fees. These individuals deserve an improved liability system that more fairly expedites compensation and helps doctors reduce errors and improve patient safety.
  
  Although it's worth celebrating that the United States is close to joining the rest of the industrialized world in providing near-universal health coverage, the health reform conversation must continue -- both to improve the plight of injured patients and to ensure that the millions of newly insured have access to quality primary care.

  Ed Rollins, CNN senior political contributor, senior presidential fellow at the Kalikow Center for the Study of the American Presidency at Hofstra University and White House political director for President Reagan:
  
  The Democrats did it. President Obama and Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi battered and cajoled a majority of Democrat House members to pass one of the most far-reaching and expensive entitlement programs in our history. The speaker said Sunday, "We're doing this for the American people."
  
  It would be far more correct if she said we're doing what we think is best for the American people. According to polls, most Americans don't want this plan. But what we want certainly doesn't matter to Pelosi and those "smart Congress people" in Washington who think they know more than we do.
  
  And telling the whole truth would be a new exercise in selling this program. Never has so much misinformation been spun to the public. We don't have to read the 2,000-page bill to find out the truth.
  
  These are the facts, and they are not debatable. For those who have health insurance, you are in all probability going to pay more and get less. The American public is getting a tax increase -- and not just the rich ($200,000 is defined as rich). The so-called "Cadillac" health insurance plans will be taxed, and there are a variety of other taxes on businesses that will undoubtedly be passed on to consumers.
  
  Doctors and hospitals are going to be paid less for services. Forty-six cents out of every dollar spent on medicine is paid for by you the taxpayers. Just know you're going to pay more.
  
  Small and large businesses are going to have to pay more for their employees' health insurance plans. And every American is mandated to have health insurance whether we want it or not.
  
  The elderly on Medicare will see their benefits changed dramatically. The biggest item being used to pay for the new program is more than $500 billion in cuts to the Medicare program at a time when 72 million baby boomers become eligible for it in the next decade. The second biggest move to pay for this is by raising and expanding the Medicare tax.
  
  It is true some Americans will benefit. By 2014, according to the Congressional Budget Office, this bill will give 19 million uninsured Americans subsidies averaging $6,000 to help pay premiums and other medical charges. This is in addition to the federal government already picking up the tab for nearly 100 million Americans through Medicare (the elderly) and Medicaid (the poor, disabled and many children).
  
  The smart people in D.C., including the president and the speaker will be long gone (as well as a bunch of Democrats who will lose in November) when the debts come due. But our children and grandchildren will be left with the tab.
  

• jmog

  4cards wrote: ^^^^^
  You should be upset. Your representatives in government just told you and your opinion on this health bill to go fuck yourself & then have the audacity to tell us it's good for you no matter what it cost the taxpayers in terms of out of pocket expense or job loss. In the midterm elections, remember who voted for it and then elect whoever is running against them. This way you tell the current legislator to go fuck HIMSELF.....
  
  In my case.....Tim Ryan, you're fucking done!

  Yeah, I'm in Ryan's district too, but we have so many heavily Democratic "regions" like Youngstown and Warren that even with this healthcare debacle I'm not sure he'll lose in November.
• bases_loaded

  

  devil1197 wrote: I am 22 and have come to realize that there is little to nothing that a regular guy like me can do to change issues like the one above. Yes, I know go out and vote but honestly it just doesn't matter anymore.
  
  So I'll go on with my life and not get tied up in politics. Not worth the stress of worrying about things.

  Im 26 and have learned it goes way beyond that as well. Not only does your voice not matter, the voice of the people don't matter only those in charge. And most of those decision makers have been in power so long they forgot why they originally got in and now its all about whats best for them not necc their constituents. We had a great representative in our area Bob Ney. He was loved by both sides, got alot of things done for the district but sure enough he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
  
  Career politician is code for can't succeed in the real world.
  
  WE NEED TERM LIMITS AT ALL LEVELS
• pinstriper

  A great article from a former director of the CBO. This outlines the lies of budget reduction, etc...
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinion/21holtz-eakin.html
  
  "The bottom line is that Congress would spend a lot more; steal funds from education, Social Security and long-term care to cover the gap; and promise that future Congresses will make up for it by taxing more and spending less."
• QuakerOats

  This Will Not Stand: Newt On the Passage of Obamacare
  by Newt Gingrich
  Updated 03/22/2010 ET
  
  This will not stand.
  No one should be confused about the outcome of Sunday's vote
  This is not the end of the fight it is the beginning of the fight.
  The American people spoke decisively against a big government, high tax, Washington knows best, pro trial lawyer centralized bureaucratic health system
  In every recent poll the vast majority of Americans opposed this monstrosity
  Speaker Pelosi knew the country was against the bill. That is why she kept her members trapped in Washington and forced a vote on Sunday.
  She knew if she let the members go home their constituents would convince them to vote no.
  The Obama-Pelosi-Reid machine combined the radicalism of Alinsky, the corruption of Springfield and the machine power politics of Chicago.
  Sunday was a pressured, bought, intimidated vote worthy of Hugo Chavez but unworthy of the United States of America.
  It is hard to imagine how much pressure they brought to bear on congressman Stupak to get him to accept a cynical, phony clearly illegal and unconstitutional executive order on abortion. The ruthlessness and inhumanity of the Obama-Pelosi-Reid machine was most clearly on display in their public humiliation of Stupak.
  The real principles of the machine were articulated by Democratic Congressman Alcee Hastings who was impeached and removed from the bench as a federal judge, before being elected to the House when he said ""There ain't no rules here, we're trying to accomplish something. . . .All this talk about rules. . . .When the deal goes down . . . we make 'em up as we go along."
  It is hard for the American people to believe their leaders on the left are this bad.
  They are.
  The American people will not allow a corrupt machine to dictate their future.
  Together we will pledge to repeal this bill and start over
  Together we will prove that this will not stand
  2010 and 2012 will be among the most important elections in American history
  These elections will allow us to save America from a leftwing machine of unparalleled corruption arrogance and cynicism
  Sunday was one more step in the fight against a "Washington knows best" and "Washington should run everything" attitude.
  Let us turn now to the Senate to continue this fight for real reform, for real self government, and for policies that create jobs, improve health outcomes, and increase freedom.
  http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36142
• QuakerOats

  Swamp Fox wrote: It is, afterall, still a free country.

  Like hell.
• OneBuckeye

  

  pinstriper wrote: A great article from a former director of the CBO. This outlines the lies of budget reduction, etc...
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinion/21holtz-eakin.html
  
  "The bottom line is that Congress would spend a lot more; steal funds from education, Social Security and long-term care to cover the gap; and promise that future Congresses will make up for it by taxing more and spending less."

  Wow...
• OneBuckeye

  

  http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/house/2/165?ref=policy
  
  Map of votes.