GOP Healthcare plan

• CenterBHSFan

  

  ppaw1999;1851920 wrote:Maybe as the bill now stands some of the people most likely to be adversely affected are the poor, people of color and women?

  I don't know, ppaw. But I do know that there are also vast amounts of poor whites, men and women. And they also live in large cities, Appalachia and other rural areas all across the US. So to me, this all comes back around to identity politics. The very same politics that overwhelmed the democrat party this past election. I can only call it an addiction at this point; and addiction they refuse to seek help for and they're essentially killing themselves off because of it.
  Trump supporters probably love this new democratic party: the party that is now exposing its soft bigotry of low expectations, identity politics, class warfare.
• isadore

  gosh a ruddies as opposed to the hard bigotry of Donald Trump and his administration.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  
• Spock

  

  jmog;1851868 wrote:I saw a clip on MSNBC yesterday that had two African-American women professors from some university say that educated white women are misogynistic and they actually perpetuate the patriarchy of our society...
  
  So white women hate women...that was their sole reasoning as to why educated white women voted for Trump over Hillary.

  i saw them.....they sounded like idiots
• isadore

  CenterBHSFan;1851941 wrote:

  
• gut

  jmog;1851868 wrote:I saw a clip on MSNBC yesterday that had two African-American women professors from some university say that educated white women are misogynistic and they actually perpetuate the patriarchy of our society...

  It's become a natural reflex of the left at this point....If they can't scare women and minorities into voting Democrat they wouldn't win a single election - imagine California going purple or red.
  
  Of course, it doesn't matter because the parties are basically the same, with the exception of some manufactured differences on a handful of wedge issues (guns, abortion, etc) that never go anywhere. Most politicians would much rather rant about guns or abortion than discuss real issues they probably know nothing about. "Trickle down doesn't work - you're job is never coming back what you need is another handout!!!"
• Spock

  

  gut;1852008 wrote:It's become a natural reflex of the left at this point....If they can't scare women and minorities into voting Democrat they wouldn't win a single election - imagine California going purple or red.
  
  Of course, it doesn't matter because the parties are basically the same, with the exception of some manufactured differences on a handful of wedge issues (guns, abortion, etc) that never go anywhere. Most politicians would much rather rant about guns or abortion than discuss real issues they probably know nothing about. "Trickle down doesn't work - you're job is never coming back what you need is another handout!!!"

  dont forget the "education is broke" argument
• dwccrew

  

  gut;1852008 wrote:It's become a natural reflex of the left at this point....If they can't scare women and minorities into voting Democrat they wouldn't win a single election - imagine California going purple or red.
  
  Of course, it doesn't matter because the parties are basically the same, with the exception of some manufactured differences on a handful of wedge issues (guns, abortion, etc) that never go anywhere. Most politicians would much rather rant about guns or abortion than discuss real issues they probably know nothing about. "Trickle down doesn't work - you're job is never coming back what you need is another handout!!!"

  So do you think women and minorities are just so easily swayed and not intelligent enough to make informed voting decisions that they fall for scare tactics? I view it quite the opposite, Trump voters fell for the scare tactics. Trump scared his supporters into voting for him by vilifying the following groups:
  
  1. Muslims- Trump riled people up about having a "temporary" ban on muslims coming into the country until better vetting processes could be implemented. After being elected he tried unsuccessfully to implement this ban.
  
  2. Illegal immigrants- "Build that wall!" Again, Trump used illegals coming in thru Mexico as a rallying cry into scaring up votes. He was successful at winning over those votes, much more successful than he has getting any kind of funding or support by Congress for said wall.
  
  3. Media- "Fake news! Fake news!" It is actually quite comical to see how Trump attempts to battle the media on Twitter and interviews. Trump's supporters believe the media is out to get Ol' Donald and that they have been lied to all of a sudden. It's only fake news when it's not something they agree on or in opposition of Trump.
• like_that

  

  dwccrew;1852550 wrote:So do you think women and minorities are just so easily swayed and not intelligent enough to make informed voting decisions that they fall for scare tactics? I view it quite the opposite, Trump voters fell for the scare tactics. Trump scared his supporters into voting for him by vilifying the following groups:
  
  1. Muslims- Trump riled people up about having a "temporary" ban on muslims coming into the country until better vetting processes could be implemented. After being elected he tried unsuccessfully to implement this ban.
  
  2. Illegal immigrants- "Build that wall!" Again, Trump used illegals coming in thru Mexico as a rallying cry into scaring up votes. He was successful at winning over those votes, much more successful than he has getting any kind of funding or support by Congress for said wall.
  
  3. Media- "Fake news! Fake news!" It is actually quite comical to see how Trump attempts to battle the media on Twitter and interviews. Trump's supporters believe the media is out to get Ol' Donald and that they have been lied to all of a sudden. It's only fake news when it's not something they agree on or in opposition of Trump.

  Pretty accurate for the most part, but Hillary and co are the ones who started this fake news shit. Donald just took that narrative and ran it back against any opposition.
• gut

  dwccrew;1852550 wrote:So do you think women and minorities are just so easily swayed and not intelligent enough to make informed voting decisions that they fall for scare tactics?

  Yep. And not just them, but about 60% of the electorate. Women, and white men, and particularly minorities vote disproportionately for one party. And why do poor white men vote disproportionately Republican? Well maybe it's because they are constantly told they have privilege and ignored by Dems, but they look around and don't see any.
  
  And is anything Trump said really worse than such classics as "[Republicans] are gonna put y'all back in chains!" or "[Republicans want to control your vagina!"? No, he just matched the hyperbole and rhetoric.
  
  While I don't fully subscribe to the "fake news!" meme, there certainly is just as much coming from the left. In a few months, I think the wild conspiracies and bullshit attacking Trump have already dwarfed anything from the right during Obama's full tenure. And I think Trump is a clown, but there are a lot of liberals out there who desperately need professional help. I am enjoying how he's trolling everyone, even if unintentionally and accidentally.
• isadore

  gut wrote: I think the wild conspiracies and bullshit attacking Trump have already dwarfed anything from the right during Obama's full tenure.

  Gosh a ruddies! I contest your statement. You may remember the Pizzagate, the widely believed charge that John Podesta and Hillary Clinton were involved in a child trafficking ring run from a pizza parlor in Washington D. C. Gosh it was pushed by Michael Flynn, Trump's National Security Adviser and his son Then of course there was the charged believed by a majority of Republicans that Obama was a Crypto-Muslim Kenyan. That was push so hard by that often bankrupted real casino entrepreneur/reality tv star.
• dwccrew

  

  like_that;1852559 wrote:Pretty accurate for the most part, but Hillary and co are the ones who started this fake news shit. Donald just took that narrative and ran it back against any opposition.

  I agree, but some of it (both sides) is "fake" or unsubstantiated news.
  

  gut;1852563 wrote:Yep. And not just them, but about 60% of the electorate. Women, and white men, and particularly minorities vote disproportionately for one party. And why do poor white men vote disproportionately Republican? Well maybe it's because they are constantly told they have privilege and ignored by Dems, but they look around and don't see any.

  I think some people have different definitions for what exactly privilege is and what it means.
  
  

  gut;1852563 wrote:And is anything Trump said really worse than such classics as "[Republicans] are gonna put y'all back in chains!" or "[Republicans want to control your vagina!"? No, he just matched the hyperbole and rhetoric.

  And this is one of the traits of Trump that make him, IMHO, a fool. I feel that way about anyone that would resort to those sort of tactics in politics. It's not productive, it never has been in history.
  
  

  gut;1852563 wrote: While I don't fully subscribe to the "fake news!" meme, there certainly is just as much coming from the left. In a few months, I think the wild conspiracies and bullshit attacking Trump have already dwarfed anything from the right during Obama's full tenure. And I think Trump is a clown, but there are a lot of liberals out there who desperately need professional help. I am enjoying how he's trolling everyone, even if unintentionally and accidentally.

  I find it the opposite, I feel it is the media trolling Trump. IMO, this is evident by just reading his Twitter meltdowns.
• gut

  dwccrew;1852812 wrote:I find it the opposite, I feel it is the media trolling Trump. IMO, this is evident by just reading his Twitter meltdowns.

  They may be. I guess credibility and objectivity isn't important to them....but then, we already knew that.
• ppaw1999

  http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/conservatives-tell-senators-to-pass-health-care-bill-or-lose-control-of-congress/ar-BBC78zP?li=BBnb7Kz
  
  It sounds like the Right is now having to live with their own version of Obamacare. I can't believe they spent the last 8 years attacking Obamacare and didn't have an alternative plan in place. The two parties are more alike than most people are willing to admit.
• Heretic

  

  ppaw1999;1856851 wrote:http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/conservatives-tell-senators-to-pass-health-care-bill-or-lose-control-of-congress/ar-BBC78zP?li=BBnb7Kz
  
  It sounds like the Right is now having to live with their own version of Obamacare. I can't believe they spent the last 8 years attacking Obamacare and didn't have an alternative plan in place. The two parties are more alike than most people are willing to admit.

  Well, when you spend eight years putting all your heart and effort into being obstructive, it's not like the Idea Fairy is going to magically appear and give you good ideas now that you have the power to put them into action.
  
  But, yeah, I think that unless you're on the fringe far left/right, you have to see that both parties are essentially the same, just with minor differences such as what programs do they want to piss away an amazing amount of money on for, at the very absolute best, mixed results. The only people who don't see that are the hardcore SJW/social conservative factions, who tend to be the most useless, but loudest, groups on both sides. And even those people are strikingly similar. Whether it be crying about a war on sexuality or a war on Christianity, it just comes off as impotent whining by spoiled bitches to me, essentially saying "IF YOU DON'T CATER TO ME ME ME, THE COUNTRY IS FUCKED!!!!!" over and over.
• QuakerOats

  Heretic;1856869 wrote:Well, when you spend eight years putting all your heart and effort into being obstructive, it's not like the Idea Fairy is going to magically appear and give you good ideas now that you have the power to put them into action.

  
  Funny ..........the plan was formalized last summer and I posted it then.
  
  https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_assets/pdf/ABetterWay-HealthCare-PolicyPaper.pdf
  
  
  
  When you spend 8 years attacking people who are trying to right the ship you miss things, I guess.
• BoatShoes

  QuakerOats;1856903 wrote:Funny ..........the plan was formalized last summer and I posted it then.
  
  https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_assets/pdf/ABetterWay-HealthCare-PolicyPaper.pdf
  
  
  
  When you spend 8 years attacking people who are trying to right the ship you miss things, I guess.

  And yet here the GOP is with Obamcare light 3.0 Dead on arrival in the Senate with a seemingly unbridgeable gap between the likes of Rand Paul and Rob Portman.
• gut

  BoatShoes;1856925 wrote:And yet here the GOP is with Obamcare light 3.0 Dead on arrival in the Senate with a seemingly unbridgeable gap between the likes of Rand Paul and Rob Portman.

  Well, they don't have 60 votes and so are limited by what they can do with budget reconciliation.
  
  Of course, the Dems are unilaterally responsible for Obamacare, yet where is the cooperation in attempting to fix it? They are actually blaming a Republican failure to fix the mess they created, while simultaneously holding on to the votes preventing easier fixes.
• QuakerOats

  Unwinding the largest legislative and administrative disaster in world history is not easy.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  QuakerOats;1856943 wrote:Unwinding the largest legislative and administrative disaster in world history is not easy.

  Now come on. Hyperbolic statements like that do nothing to help your credibility.
  The worst in the history of the world? Really?
• QuakerOats

  I can't think of another that would top this.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  QuakerOats;1856952 wrote:I can't think of another that would top this.

  Seriously?
  In the history of the world?
  Setting aside the laws passed that allowed for the rise of Hitler, just here in the U.S. how about the Fugitive Slave Act...
• QuakerOats

  overtaking 20% of the largest economy in the world with this:
  
• ppaw1999

  QuakerOats;1856952 wrote:I can't think of another that would top this.

  Are you saying that the plan the House sent to the Senate is a better plan?
• QuakerOats

  The plan rolled out last summer has the necessary elements. Essentially, we should repeal obamaKare, and address the few issues that need attention.
  
  
  
  Just in, Anthem leaving obamaKare in Ohio ...................I believe that leaves 20 counties with no carrier.
  
  The disaster rolls on. Change we can believe in....
  
  http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/06/06/anthem-to-exit-obamacare-marketplace-in-ohio.html