Iowa Caucus

• QuakerOats

  HitsRus;1779589 wrote:Exactly my point. Far too much attention is spent on Hillary. It is dangerous and short sighted to pooh pooh Sanders' electability for this election. He and his ideas should be attacked and discredited at every point. We cannot allow the neo-Bolsheviks to continue to run their playbook, and to destroy our posterity. History does and will repeat itself, and our way of life, our system of economics, and our constitutional republic must be defended.

  Thank you.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  HitsRus;1779610 wrote:No you don't...schools are supported by tax revenues, such that everyone can obtain a high school education. It is not free. People must vote to provide a level of support and have direct input as to how their schools are run.

  which is how the universities would be funded..
• queencitybuckeye

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779620 wrote:which is how the universities would be funded..

  There would be laws passed allowing the voters to decide on funding levels directly?
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779620 wrote:which is how the universities would be funded..

  If we do this you will greatly have to raise the standards in which you can attend college because there simply isn't enough space for all the trash of society to waste their time in college. AA would need to go out the door too.
  
  You do not live in reality. Why not fund your own scholarship to provide free college to someone? Oh that's right, liberals only are generous with other people's money.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  queencitybuckeye;1779625 wrote:There would be laws passed allowing the voters to decide on funding levels directly?

  Doubtful being a federal budget.
• FatHobbit

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779620 wrote:which is how the universities would be funded..

  Is Bernie proposing the govt taking over universities or is he proposing that the federal govt pay for everyone to go to school? I am very unclear on what he actually wants to do other than "free college"
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  Funding to States for State Universities.... With guidelines and regulations and not just "here's a check" though.
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779650 wrote:Funding to States for State Universities.... With guidelines and regulations and not just "here's a check" though.

  So basically "here's a check" for anyone who's not white.
  
  I'd be okay with a system where if you graduate with a 3.5 or higher in a relevant field you get your entire college reimbursed. The people who score between a 3.0 and 3.49 pay the normal price of college and the people who score lower than 3.0 pay the cost of college for those who scored 3.5 or higher. It would eliminate trash from even bothering going to school and give a huge incentive to do well in school.
  
  Of course, liberals don't like a system in which there are contingencies to get free things because they are seen as unfair to everyone who's not a white male.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  sleeper;1779656 wrote:So basically "here's a check" for anyone who's not white.
  
  I'd be okay with a system where if you graduate with a 3.5 or higher in a relevant field you get your entire college reimbursed. The people who score between a 3.0 and 3.49 pay the normal price of college and the people who score lower than 3.0 pay the cost of college for those who scored 3.5 or higher. It would eliminate trash from even bothering going to school and give a huge incentive to do well in school.
  
  Of course, liberals don't like a system in which there are contingencies to get free things because they are seen as unfair to everyone who's not a white male.

  of course.
• gut

  If you want "free college", first you are going to go to a 2-yr local/community college and prove (earn) that you can do the work. And that's on your dime. If you maintain a B average (and no watering down the reqs or lowering the bar), THEN you can get the final 2-yrs at a state college for a 4-yr degree.
  
  The idea that we should EXPAND state universities to accommodate hundreds of thousands of incapable students who probably shouldn't be going to college is ridiculous.
  
  This is ultimately an indictment of our secondary education system. We spend way more than most every other country there and get inferior results...in classic liberal logic, the solution is to dump MORE money into post-secondary education because that approach has been so successful in secondary education.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  gut;1779661 wrote:If you want "free college", first you are going to go to a 2-yr local/community college and prove (earn) that you can do the work. And that's on your dime. If you maintain a B average (and no watering down the reqs or lowering the bar), THEN you can get the final 2-yrs at a state college for a 4-yr degree.
  
  The idea that we should EXPAND state universities to accommodate hundreds of thousands of incapable students who probably shouldn't be going to college is ridiculous.
  
  This is ultimately an indictment of our secondary education system. We spend way more than most every other country there and get inferior results...in classic liberal logic, the solution is to dump MORE money into post-secondary education because that approach has been so successful in secondary education.

  yeah.. that probably wouldn't be how it worked.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  gut;1779661 wrote:
  This is ultimately an indictment of our secondary education system. We spend way more than most every other country there and get inferior results...in classic liberal logic, the solution is to dump MORE money into post-secondary education because that approach has been so successful in secondary education.

  That's our healthcare in a nutshell, but you love that system?
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  Realistically how it'd work is if you were a resident of that state, you'd get free tuition. If you flunked out or were dismissed, you'd lose out on your chance of eligibility. I know its terrible.. the thought of going to school with poor people.
• sleeper

  

  gut;1779661 wrote:If you want "free college", first you are going to go to a 2-yr local/community college and prove (earn) that you can do the work. And that's on your dime. If you maintain a B average (and no watering down the reqs or lowering the bar), THEN you can get the final 2-yrs at a state college for a 4-yr degree.
  
  The idea that we should EXPAND state universities to accommodate hundreds of thousands of incapable students who probably shouldn't be going to college is ridiculous.
  
  This is ultimately an indictment of our secondary education system. We spend way more than most every other country there and get inferior results...in classic liberal logic, the solution is to dump MORE money into post-secondary education because that approach has been so successful in secondary education.

  Our education system before university is beyond terrible. The reality is most parents don't value education and don't take the time to make sure their kids are doing their homework and actually going to school. My mom is a teacher and she gets blamed when kids don't do their homework or don't come to class.
  
  The system is broken because there is too much trash in this country.
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779670 wrote:That's our healthcare in a nutshell, but you love that system?

  Our healthcare is the best in the world and with that it is the most expensive.
  
  The issue is cost not quality.
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779671 wrote:Realistically how it'd work is if you were a resident of that state, you'd get free tuition. If you flunked out or were dismissed, you'd lose out on your chance of eligibility. I know its terrible.. the thought of going to school with poor people.

  I don't mind going to school with poor people. I don't want to go to school with a bunch of straight garbage who are there to party on my dime and get a shit degree in a useless field.
• gut

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779670 wrote:That's our healthcare in a nutshell, but you love that system?

  Perfect example. The liberal solution is always to throw more money at the problem, that's why the ROI on nearly everything we spend sucks so bad.
  
  Of course, a big part of the healthcare cost is we subsidize global healthcare. Not sure how we subsidize global education, though. But subsidize student loans and grants totaling well over $70B apparently aren't enough and have nothing to do with soaring education costs. So throw more money at it. That will bring costs down, just you watch.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  sleeper;1779675 wrote:Our healthcare is the best in the world and with that it is the most expensive.
  
  The issue is cost not quality.

  when reasonable people put Nationalism and ethnocentrism aside, and look at data, they see we're not even close to the best.
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779680 wrote:when reasonable people put Nationalism and ethnocentrism aside, and look at data, they see we're not even close to the best.

  What data? Do you really believe the US has worse healthcare than Cuba? How many world leading Med schools are in Cuba? How many world leading pharmaceutical companies are in Cuba? How many world leading hospitals are in Cuba? How many world leading doctors, surgeons, nurses, specialists, etc. are in Cuba?
  
  You're delusional at best if you think healthcare is better anywhere but here. Yes, its expensive.
  
  Next time you have a medical issue, please go to Cuba instead of the US for your better quality lol.
• BoatShoes

  HitsRus;1779589 wrote:Exactly my point. Far too much attention is spent on Hillary. It is dangerous and short sighted to pooh pooh Sanders' electability for this election. He and his ideas should be attacked and discredited at every point. We cannot allow the neo-Bolsheviks to continue to run their playbook, and to destroy our posterity. History does and will repeat itself, and our way of life, our system of economics, and our constitutional republic must be defended.

  But you are doing a really lame job of this right? You just keep saying the boogie word like that is a reasonable argument.
  
  When Bernie says Medicare works for seniors and therefore it could work for everybody for a multitude of reasons, e.g. doctors not having to deal with different insurance companies, etc.
  
  It is best to attack that position as to why it is bad like saying America's problem is epic levels of obesity and Medicare For All won't lower costs like elsewhere because of that fact, etc....rather than declare the end of the Republic if we enact the health plan Canada - (a Capitalist economy with elements of Social Democracy like the U.S. which was recently ranked as a better country than the U.S.) has had for decades.
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  sleeper;1779681 wrote:What data? Do you really believe the US has worse healthcare than Cuba? How many world leading Med schools are in Cuba? How many world leading pharmaceutical companies are in Cuba? How many world leading hospitals are in Cuba? How many world leading doctors, surgeons, nurses, specialists, etc. are in Cuba?
  
  You're delusional at best if you think healthcare is better anywhere but here. Yes, its expensive.
  
  Next time you have a medical issue, please go to Cuba instead of the US for your better quality lol.

  Who said anything about Cuba? Oh, just you?
• BoatShoes

  SportsAndLady;1779591 wrote:Not to mention comparing social security to something like free college education.
  
  News flash to libs: not everyone deserves to go to college and they'll be just fine without it.

  You bring up a great point. Americans broadly support Medicare and Social Security because they believe they have earned it and that it is a decent deal. Americans hate the word free.
  
  Personally I think a better approach would be a readjustment of the student loan system as this covered more with American values that things should be earned.
  
  I know plenty of liberal leaning people who scoff at Bernie's idea of "free college."
  
  Moreover, it wouldn't hurt him to talk about doing something about the huge administrative bloat that has occurred on campuses across the country...e.g. No loans to students at your schools if your admin/student ratio is > X/Y or something like that.
• Con_Alma

  BoatShoes;1779686 wrote:You bring up a great point. Americans broadly support Medicare and Social Security because they believe they have earned it and that it is a decent deal. Americans hate the word free.
  
  ....

  I think it's more than a belief. Designated withdrawals from individuals paychecks earmarked for these things accompanied by employer matches are part of the individuals compensation. I don't think it should be referred to as belief folks have earned it.
  
  I think you might be speculating when you state that Americans think it's a decent deal. That may or may not be true.
• sleeper

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1779685 wrote:Who said anything about Cuba? Oh, just you?

  It's the last world health report I saw that had the US at #32 and Cuba was like #5. The WHO is a joke and everyone who isn't delusional knows it.
• BoatShoes

  like_that;1779590 wrote:This is a classic Bernie supporter argument when they realize democratic socialism is indeed socialism and their savior is in fact a socialist.
  
  "Well our liberal president in the 30's who introduced us to deficit spending passed social security, so it's ok to go full blown socialism now even though our country was built on capitalism! It's ok though because our economy is already not doing well so we might as well get this temporary/short term fix in so poor people can feel a little less poor!"
  
  /berniesupporterlogic
  
  Also lol at using social security to prove a point considering how it's going to shit.
  
  
  Sorry zwick, I'd prefer to be a world power while I am alive and pass it on to my children if I have any. If you're ok with setting up your kid(s) to be in a shitty situation at age 18-25, then more power to you I suppose.

  See this post exhibits why "socialist!!!" has become just as meaningless as "fascist!!!" The true definition of a Socialist economy is one where there is collective ownership of the means of production and distribution.
  
  Even if Bernie's entire agenda were passed we would still have a huge and mostly capitalist economy and will remain the clear world power.
  
  Let's face it some people just don't like Bernie because they don't like how he criticises rich folks as they think that is antithetical to American ideals. That's fine but rather than just say that they have to say America is going to go to he'll in a handbasket if we have Medicare For All and raise taxes on the most well off to the levels they were during the golden age of capitalism after World War II.
  
  And personally I think Bernie should spend more time talking about the least well off than criticizing the most well off.