Ukraine Revolution

• I Wear Pants

  "Crimea is the warm water port for the Russian fleet.
  
  Their foreign adventure warm water port was in Syria of all places and for all intents and purposes has been decommissioned.
  
  Russia will not give up the Crimea which was attached to Russia proper in all maps since they took over the land from the TarTars ages ago. In 1952 for bureacratic reasons Crimea was fashioned into a Soviet Republic with the Ukraine under the USSR.
  
  This map is still in use today though Crimea should have always been attached to Russia so they could always have a warm water port so they don't have to go to war to get one which is why the TarTars lose that land in the first place.
  
  Ukraine would be wise to give up the Crimea to be granted independence.
  
  A parable would be if Texas decided to go independent, there would be no way the USA would just let them keep Fort Hood, the largest military complex in the world.
  
  Russians aren't just going to give Ukraine their entire warm water naval complex.
  
  Redraw the map and call it day."
  
  Sums it up pretty well I think.
• justincredible

  

  I Wear Pants;1586548 wrote:"Crimea is the warm water port for the Russian fleet.
  
  Their foreign adventure warm water port was in Syria of all places and for all intents and purposes has been decommissioned.
  
  Russia will not give up the Crimea which was attached to Russia proper in all maps since they took over the land from the TarTars ages ago. In 1952 for bureacratic reasons Crimea was fashioned into a Soviet Republic with the Ukraine under the USSR.
  
  This map is still in use today though Crimea should have always been attached to Russia so they could always have a warm water port so they don't have to go to war to get one which is why the TarTars lose that land in the first place.
  
  Ukraine would be wise to give up the Crimea to be granted independence.
  
  A parable would be if Texas decided to go independent, there would be no way the USA would just let them keep Fort Hood, the largest military complex in the world.
  
  Russians aren't just going to give Ukraine their entire warm water naval complex.
  
  Redraw the map and call it day."
  
  Sums it up pretty well I think.

  You make it sound so easy.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  justincredible;1586551 wrote:You make it sound so easy.

  
• justincredible

  

  ernest_t_bass;1586553 wrote:

  Yeah, I get it. I drive an Outback. It's hilarious. Truly.
• thavoice

  justincredible;1586540 wrote:Looking at the map above, wouldn't it make sense for Ukraine to peacefully split in to two countries?

  Becauese of the language that is native tothe area?
  
  How about canada splitting into part US and part Francee?
  
  
  No country wants to give up land that is currently "their's".
  Europe sees it as russia expanding westward once again.
• thavoice

  I Wear Pants;1586548 wrote:"Crimea is the warm water port for the Russian fleet.
  
  Their foreign adventure warm water port was in Syria of all places and for all intents and purposes has been decommissioned.
  
  Russia will not give up the Crimea which was attached to Russia proper in all maps since they took over the land from the TarTars ages ago. In 1952 for bureacratic reasons Crimea was fashioned into a Soviet Republic with the Ukraine under the USSR.
  
  This map is still in use today though Crimea should have always been attached to Russia so they could always have a warm water port so they don't have to go to war to get one which is why the TarTars lose that land in the first place.
  
  Ukraine would be wise to give up the Crimea to be granted independence.
  
  A parable would be if Texas decided to go independent, there would be no way the USA would just let them keep Fort Hood, the largest military complex in the world.
  
  Russians aren't just going to give Ukraine their entire warm water naval complex.
  
  Redraw the map and call it day."
  
  Sums it up pretty well I think.

  That isnt what is happening here. People in Crimea arent rising up to gain their independance.
  No one was asking russia to give up their black sea fleet. They have had agreement with that and it would ahve continued on. It wasnt like Ukraine or Crimea (for some reason I always think of Cramerica from seinfeld) was taki away the blacksea fleet.
• justincredible

  

  thavoice;1586557 wrote:Becauese of the language that is native tothe area?
  
  How about canada splitting into part US and part Francee?
  
  
  No country wants to give up land that is currently "their's".
  Europe sees it as russia expanding westward once again.

  I mean, it's pretty clear there are two very separate Ukraine's that have a very distinct geographical split. I understand that it isn't as easy as just splitting in two and calling it a day. But it's pretty clear that it should happen.
  
  
• ernest_t_bass

  

  justincredible;1586554 wrote:Yeah, I get it. I drive an Outback. It's hilarious. Truly.

  Lighten up, Francis.
• justincredible

  

  ernest_t_bass;1586560 wrote:Lighten up, Francis.

  I'm lighter than I was in high school, bro.
• ernest_t_bass

  

  justincredible;1586561 wrote:I'm lighter than I was in high school, bro.

  I'm actually quite impressed (really), considering the syrup chugging and all.
• Tiernan

  Putin makes BHO his bitch anytime there is confrontation between the two. If these two had been around during the Cuban missile crisis...FL would now be annexed to Havana.
• Devils Advocate

  

  Thanks Obama.
• dlazz

  Tiernan;1586566 wrote:Putin makes BHO his bitch anytime there is confrontation between the two.

  As far as I know, Putin isn't behind any browser helper objects. Those are usually reserved for plug-ins such as Adobe Flash and Java.
  
  Hope this helps.
• Mohican00

  

  justincredible;1586559 wrote:I mean, it's pretty clear there are two very separate Ukraine's that have a very distinct geographical split. I understand that it isn't as easy as just splitting in two and calling it a day. But it's pretty clear that it should happen

  Why would the Ukraine be ok with giving up a large portion of their territory? The Crimean has valuable economic (read: oil) and strategic value. Plus, many Ukrainians wanted the EU deal and so deposing Yanukovych made sense for them.
  
  Plus you're a sovereign state, why bitch out against a bully?
• thavoice

  Mohican00;1586578 wrote:Why would the Ukraine be ok with giving up a large portion of their territory? The Crimean has valuable economic (read: oil) and strategic value. Plus, many Ukrainians wanted the EU deal and so deposing Yanukovych made sense for them.
  
  Plus you're a sovereign state, why bitch out against a bully?

  Agreed.
  
  Dont worry though, this crisis is about over. US just announced we will no longer be sending a delagaton to the para olympics.
  
  Thatll scare em/
  hhh
• HitsRus

  

  Europe sees it as russia expanding westward once again.I mean, it's pretty clear there are two very separate Ukraine's that have a very distinct geographical split. I understand that it isn't as easy as just splitting in two and calling it a day. But it's pretty clear that it should happen.

  Sounds alot like Neville Chamberlin...yeah...redraw the map....that worked out pretty well when Germany wanted the Sudetenland. Does it end there?
• Tiernan

  dlazz;1586572 wrote:As far as I know, Putin isn't behind any browser helper objects. Those are usually reserved for plug-ins such as Adobe Flash and Java.
  
  Hope this helps.

  please kill yourself
• I Wear Pants

  thavoice;1586558 wrote:That isnt what is happening here. People in Crimea arent rising up to gain their independance.
  No one was asking russia to give up their black sea fleet. They have had agreement with that and it would ahve continued on. It wasnt like Ukraine or Crimea (for some reason I always think of Cramerica from seinfeld) was taki away the blacksea fleet.

  Russia probably views the new government as far more hostile towards their interests than the previous one and as such their bases being allowed wasn't a guarantee. So they decided to take the gamble that Crimia is as pro-Russia as they think so they assuredly don't lose their bases there.
• I Wear Pants

  justincredible;1586551 wrote:You make it sound so easy.

  Oh it definitely isn't but the basic gist of what should happen is pretty simple. But international politics especially during times of unrest are anything but simple even for the most basic matters.
• steubbigred

  I Wear Pants;1586548 wrote:"Crimea is the warm water port for the Russian fleet.
  
  Their foreign adventure warm water port was in Syria of all places and for all intents and purposes has been decommissioned.
  
  Russia will not give up the Crimea which was attached to Russia proper in all maps since they took over the land from the TarTars ages ago. In 1952 for bureacratic reasons Crimea was fashioned into a Soviet Republic with the Ukraine under the USSR.
  
  This map is still in use today though Crimea should have always been attached to Russia so they could always have a warm water port so they don't have to go to war to get one which is why the TarTars lose that land in the first place.
  
  Ukraine would be wise to give up the Crimea to be granted independence.
  
  A parable would be if Texas decided to go independent, there would be no way the USA would just let them keep Fort Hood, the largest military complex in the world.
  
  Russians aren't just going to give Ukraine their entire warm water naval complex.
  
  Redraw the map and call it day."
  
  Sums it up pretty well I think.

  Maybe we ought to give Russia Alaska back SMH
• Mohican00

  

  I Wear Pants;1586585 wrote:Russia probably views the new government as far more hostile towards their interests than the previous one and as such their bases being allowed wasn't a guarantee. So they decided to take the gamble that Crimia is as pro-Russia as they think so they assuredly don't lose their bases there.

  The naval base in Crimea seems like a win-win for both sides: Russia gets to keep a base there, Ukraine receives 30% price reduction in natural gas sold to them by Russia through 2042 (I believe CNN said that was a $10 billion deal)
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Kharkiv_Pact
  
  This is just opportunism, IMO. Russia is trying to advance their interests in the Ukraine during a period of turmoil there.
• I Wear Pants

  steubbigred;1586590 wrote:Maybe we ought to give Russia Alaska back SMH

  That's, um, nothing like what I was discussing.
  

  Mohican00;1586593 wrote:The naval base in Crimea seems like a win-win for both sides: Russia gets to keep a base there, Ukraine receives 30% price reduction in natural gas sold to them by Russia through 2042 (I believe CNN said that was a $10 billion deal)
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Kharkiv_Pact
  
  This is just opportunism, IMO. Russia is trying to advance their interests in the Ukraine during a period of turmoil there.

  I would agree. But it's hard to balance justice vs pragmatism when justice could mean the escalation into open warfare between some very large nations which I don't think people want at all.
  
  
• Dr Winston O'Boogie

  

  Tiernan;1586566 wrote:Putin makes BHO his bitch anytime there is confrontation between the two. If these two had been around during the Cuban missile crisis...FL would now be annexed to Havana.

  Why don't we give Obama a friggin chance before you say this. What exactly is he supposed to do about it right now? Invade? No US president I can think of would have done that this early in the game. The last president we had was supposedly strong and he allowed Putin to take parts of Georgia with zero consequences.
• Tiernan

  OK Comrade Boogie you old commie sympathizer
• fish82

  

  Dr Winston O'Boogie;1586634 wrote:Why don't we give Obama a friggin chance before you say this. What exactly is he supposed to do about it right now?

  Apologize to Sarah Palin.