Disgusted with obama administration - Part II

• sleeper

  

  rrfan;1786451 wrote:The stuff that goes on in our government makes me sick! Trump all the way. Give me somebody that actually has run a business and been successful.

  He's not really successful. He has a lot of failed businesses that he started on the back of having a huge loan from his father and piggybacking off the "Trump" name his father gave to him. He also received a substantial inheritance from his father(approximately $200M).
  
  His business success is questionable at best but what isn't questionable is the stupid that comes out of his mouth on a daily basis. He says nothing useful or intelligent ever and mostly just brags about how great he is. Pretty embarrassing that people support him.
• Heretic

  

  rrfan;1786451 wrote:The stuff that goes on in our government makes me sick! Trump all the way. Give me somebody that actually has run a business and been successful.

  Automatik;1786453 wrote:lol...Trump supporters.

  sleeper;1786455 wrote:He's not really successful. He has a lot of failed businesses that he started on the back of having a huge loan from his father and piggybacking off the "Trump" name his father gave to him. He also received a substantial inheritance from his father(approximately $200M).
  
  His business success is questionable at best but what isn't questionable is the stupid that comes out of his mouth on a daily basis. He says nothing useful or intelligent ever and mostly just brags about how great he is. Pretty embarrassing that people support him.

  
  Lol, yep. Anyone who does even a reasonably kind of decent bit of research knows that Trump came from money and has had his share of business failures, but he has been really successful relying on the votes of people too lazy and/or unintelligent to do said research and who will swallow 100% of what he says as gospel because he's rich (ie: "successful") and has no filter.
  
  With the hilarity being that the same people who ranted about how Ds voted for Obama on a hot-air-filled platform based around "hope and change", "yes we can" and nothing substantial are the same people jizzing themselves because a loud asshole is bellowing "make America great again" with nothing substantial behind it.
• Automatik

  

  I just don't get how they don't mind that he blatently makes shit up and talks out of his ass.
  
  "But all politicians lie! You're just mad bc he's not PC!"
  
  
  lol...we are so fucking fucked.
• sleeper

  

  Automatik;1786463 wrote:I just don't get how they don't mind that he blatently makes shit up and talks out of his ass.
  
  "But all politicians lie! You're just mad bc he's not PC!"
  
  
  lol...we are so fucking fucked.

  Yeah it's not Trump that worries me, it's the idea that someone like Trump can be elected President. Even if Trump doesn't win the White House, we still have a country full of people willing to vote for him.
• jmog

  The 3 top candidates right now in Trump, Hillary, and Sanders all 3 scare the hell out of me and all for different reasons. Our country is honestly screwed unless someone outside of those 3 somehow wins.
• superman

  jmog;1786490 wrote:The 3 top candidates right now in Trump, Hillary, and Sanders all 3 scare the hell out of me and all for different reasons. Our country is honestly screwed unless someone outside of those 3 somehow wins.

  Sanders' ideas scare me but i think he's harmless. None of his ideas will get passed.
• jmog

  superman;1786496 wrote:Sanders' ideas scare me but i think he's harmless. None of his ideas will get passed.

  1. Many of us though the same with Obama and the ACA.
  2. I agree in principle, but if he gets elected it shows how far our citizens have gone way off the wagon, which scares me just as much.
• isadore

  gosh a ruddies its nice to know that as people look at what the Republican Party has to offer, Obama's popularity rises.
• gut

  jmog;1786516 wrote: 2. I agree in principle, but if he gets elected it shows how far our citizens have gone way off the wagon, which scares me just as much.

  They don't have good jobs, and they don't understand economics so they keep voting for job-killing policies.
• majorspark

  

  
• QuakerOats

  8 years later, and we still don't know who the hell barack hussein obama is.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  majorspark;1788352 wrote:

  I laughed at that actually thinking man the anti-Obama folks are going to love that one.

  QuakerOats;1788354 wrote:8 years later, and we still don't know who the hell barack hussein obama is.

  On cue.
  
  But, I actually, I don't mind the Cuba opening, only if it leads to an eventual change in the Cuban government. The Cuban Government now needs to start making concessions on their part. Otherwise, nothing else should be done.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  like_that;1785195 wrote:Ptown thought it as a great deal, so it's still a great deal.

  Iran is further away now from a bomb, has less HEU and LEU than they were 6 months ago, and they have more verification than in previously. So, yeah, it is a good deal.
• Spock

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1788356 wrote:Iran is further away now from a bomb, has less HEU and LEU than they were 6 months ago, and they have more verification than in previously. So, yeah, it is a good deal.

  Link?
  
  The whole Cuba thing is political posturing. Castro needs to resign and open the country to a fair election before we do anything
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Spock;1788358 wrote:Link?
  
  The whole Cuba thing is political posturing. Castro needs to resign and open the country to a fair election before we do anything

  IAEA and reports:
  https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/iran/iaea-and-iran-iaea-reports
  
  We have been waiting for Castro to resign since the Revolution. He is like a cockroach, he won't die.
  I don't mind the new approach, but this is just an opening. Cuba now needs to open up. This reminds me of the eastern Europe opening in the late 80s, early 90s, but there still needs to be the political change and reforms.
• like_that

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1788362 wrote:IAEA and reports:
  https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/iran/iaea-and-iran-iaea-reports
  
  We have been waiting for Castro to resign since the Revolution. He is like a cockroach, he won't die.
  I don't mind the new approach, but this is just an opening. Cuba now needs to open up. This reminds me of the eastern Europe opening in the late 80s, early 90s, but there still needs to be the political change and reforms.

  Meanwhile they are launching missiles that can reach Israel with "Israel must be wiped out" written on them. But yeah, I am sure they are further away from nuclear weapons because they say so and those missiles do not have nuclear capabilities :rolleyes:. It's a half assed deal at best.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  like_that;1788368 wrote:Meanwhile they are launching missiles that can reach Israel with "Israel must be wiped out" written on them. But yeah, I am sure they are further away from nuclear weapons because they say so and those missiles do not have nuclear capabilities :rolleyes:. It's a half assed deal at best.

  The missiles were never part of the deal dude. Also, those sanctions for the missiles are still in place.
  The whole point was to reduce the infrastructure needed to make a nuclear weapon and verify that.
  The missiles were a secondary thing because the infrastructure and eliminating the HEU were more important.
  You can have all the missiles in the world, but if you cannot manufacture the HEU required, then you have no nuke.
  
  And, did you ever read, or can you even comprehend, any of the reports? Based on your response, I guess not.
  
  Not a perfect deal, but Iran is further away from a nuke now than before.
  Half assed is your response. Get a clue and read up on the details. Start with the nuclear fuel cycle and IAEA verification for one.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Ptown's getting agitated!
• like_that

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1788370 wrote:The missiles were never part of the deal dude. Also, those sanctions for the missiles are still in place.
  The whole point was to reduce the infrastructure needed to make a nuclear weapon and verify that.
  The missiles were a secondary thing because the infrastructure and eliminating the HEU were more important.
  You can have all the missiles in the world, but if you cannot manufacture the HEU required, then you have no nuke.
  
  And, did you ever read, or can you even comprehend, any of the reports? Based on your response, I guess not.
  
  Not a perfect deal, but Iran is further away from a nuke now than before.
  Half assed is your response. Get a clue and read up on the details. Start with the nuclear fuel cycle and IAEA verification for one.

  You went from it is a good deal to not a perfect deal. So, which one is it? I am glad you want to use the " i am smarter than you" typical liberal defense mechanism, but I read the report. I comprehend it, but I have a very hard time trusting the same country that is playing with a lot of gray areas in the deal, because we got worked in a deal. Especially when the koran permits to lie to those who are not islamic. The deal stated Iran shall not test ballistic missiles that are designed to carry nuclear loads. Since Iran allegedly never had a nuclear program (according to them), the missiles obviously aren't intended for future nuclear use. Do you actually believe that logic? I shouldn't be surprised since it seems you trust anything regarding the lying Hillary. Hell, even your girl Hillary thinks sanctions should be brought down on Iran for the missiles. The deal lifted Iran reportedly $100 billion back in assets. You would have to purposely be delusional if you think that in the long run that won't go into finding a way to supply those missiles with a nuclear load. So color me not impressed with what the IAEA confirms.
  
  The fact that thousands of Iranians were on the streets celebrating the deal as if they won the World Cup says it all. Have you ever made a deal when the other side is practically popping the champagne in your face? Typically means you got worked in a deal. I stand by my comment, the deal was half assed at best. We are just sweeping under the rug that Iran is an international threat, which is par for the course for Obama and most of his foreign policy. Reminds me of the time Obama mocked Romney with his cold war comment, and all liberals jerked off to it. Funny how that is turning out now. I think in the long run the Iran deal will be viewed the same way.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  It is a good deal, not perfect, but good. Perfect would be a full disclosure of the program and no enrichment at all, but that was not possible. And, I am smarter than you on this. I actually went to school for it and studied nuclear physics, the fuel cycle, safe guards, and nuclear weapons policy. I also attended a course at UCSD on IAEA verification. If that makes me smug, then so be it.
  
  The missiles were not even on the table, and honestly, are a separate matter for another discussion. The missiles are a variation of Pakistani and North Korean technologies, that have a conventional usage right now. Other counties in the region also have missiles like that for their own conventional usage. So, the missiles are not nuclear only. We should still put pressure on them to limit them, but they are never going to eliminate them.
  
  But, overall, you are missing the point and focusing on the wrong bit.
  
  The whole purpose of the deal was to limit the enrichment and processing of the uranium and to stop the plutonium production. The deal did that. If you do not have uranium or plutonium, there is nothing to put on a missile.
  
  Iran will not build the Arak facility that would have processed plutonium. Iran will also limit how enriched the uranium will be, not above 5%, and they will limit how many places they can enrich and how many centrifuges are in place. The IAEA will also be able to monitor the uranium mines and milling process, so they can track if Iran is mining more uranium.
  Those are verified through the safeguards procedures, and the Additional Protocol, which Iran did not want to agree to. They have now.
  
  So, now you have IAEA officials at the mines and milling plants, as well as at centrifuge facilities verifying that Iran is not diverting uranium. Kinda hard to break out and have a clandestine program when the IAEA is verifying how much uranium you are mining. There are also safeguards and verification to any uranium that comes into the country, so that is monitored.
  
  Without the deal, none of this is possible.
  
  Iran would be be on pace to have a plutonium facility, would still be enriching at a HEU level, would still be enriching at multiple sites, and the IAEA would not be able to verify any of it beyond basic safeguards.
  
  You can spew whatever nonsense you want, Koran and whatever, but basics on the technical details of the deal, it is a good deal.
  
  Iran is further away now from a bomb than they were six months ago. They have less uranium, no plutonium, and the nuclear fuel cycle is verified, mine to centrifuge.
• like_that

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1788391 wrote:It is a good deal, not perfect, but good. Perfect would be a full disclosure of the program and no enrichment at all, but that was not possible. And, I am smarter than you on this. I actually went to school for it and studied nuclear physics, the fuel cycle, safe guards, and nuclear weapons policy. I also attended a course at UCSD on IAEA verification. If that makes me smug, then so be it.
  
  The missiles were not even on the table, and honestly, are a separate matter for another discussion. The missiles are a variation of Pakistani and North Korean technologies, that have a conventional usage right now. Other counties in the region also have missiles like that for their own conventional usage. So, the missiles are not nuclear only. We should still put pressure on them to limit them, but they are never going to eliminate them.
  
  But, overall, you are missing the point and focusing on the wrong bit.
  
  The whole purpose of the deal was to limit the enrichment and processing of the uranium and to stop the plutonium production. The deal did that. If you do not have uranium or plutonium, there is nothing to put on a missile.
  
  Iran will not build the Arak facility that would have processed plutonium. Iran will also limit how enriched the uranium will be, not above 5%, and they will limit how many places they can enrich and how many centrifuges are in place. The IAEA will also be able to monitor the uranium mines and milling process, so they can track if Iran is mining more uranium.
  Those are verified through the safeguards procedures, and the Additional Protocol, which Iran did not want to agree to. They have now.
  
  So, now you have IAEA officials at the mines and milling plants, as well as at centrifuge facilities verifying that Iran is not diverting uranium. Kinda hard to break out and have a clandestine program when the IAEA is verifying how much uranium you are mining. There are also safeguards and verification to any uranium that comes into the country, so that is monitored.
  
  Without the deal, none of this is possible.
  
  Iran would be be on pace to have a plutonium facility, would still be enriching at a HEU level, would still be enriching at multiple sites, and the IAEA would not be able to verify any of it beyond basic safeguards.
  
  You can spew whatever nonsense you want, Koran and whatever, but basics on the technical details of the deal, it is a good deal.
  
  Iran is further away now from a bomb than they were six months ago. They have less uranium, no plutonium, and the nuclear fuel cycle is verified, mine to centrifuge.

  I get it dude, you studied the science and you are passionate about the subject. I didn't, but you don't need to be a technical expert to understand the deal. You remind me of all the program engineers I deal with that have no concept of anything outside their technical understandings. Some of the flaws:
  
  -What are we going to do after 10-15 years? We will be back at square one.
  -What do we do if Iran takes their economic relief (reportedly over 100 billion) and decides to break the deal after a few years?
  -Nuclear infrastructure is still mainly intact. The Centrifuges have not been dismantled.
  -The deal gives them up to 24 days notice to cheat the inspectors and you want to trust this a legitimate process?
  -The same country that has funded Assad, Hezbollah, etc now has more assets to do so.
  
  Overall the deal is short sighted and just a temporary halt on Iran's push for nuclear capable weapons. You don't make that kind of deal with that many questions. It is irresponsible and makes the deal seem rushed. That's what you call half assed. As I said earlier, the deal is just sweeping under the rug that Iran is an international threat, but what does Obama care? It won't be his problem once he is out of the office. Might as well parade everything he does as a resounding success.
• QuakerOats

  I ask myself, would Mr. Trump make that deal? No.
  
  
  
  Oh and, the religion of peace has struck again this morning.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  like_that;1788427 wrote:I get it dude, you studied the science and you are passionate about the subject. I didn't, but you don't need to be a technical expert to understand the deal. You remind me of all the program engineers I deal with that have no concept of anything outside their technical understandings. Some of the flaws:
  
  -What are we going to do after 10-15 years? We will be back at square one.
  -What do we do if Iran takes their economic relief (reportedly over 100 billion) and decides to break the deal after a few years?
  -Nuclear infrastructure is still mainly intact. The Centrifuges have not been dismantled.
  -The deal gives them up to 24 days notice to cheat the inspectors and you want to trust this a legitimate process?
  -The same country that has funded Assad, Hezbollah, etc now has more assets to do so.
  
  Overall the deal is short sighted and just a temporary halt on Iran's push for nuclear capable weapons. You don't make that kind of deal with that many questions. It is irresponsible and makes the deal seem rushed. That's what you call half assed. As I said earlier, the deal is just sweeping under the rug that Iran is an international threat, but what does Obama care? It won't be his problem once he is out of the office. Might as well parade everything he does as a resounding success.

  Yeah, may seem a little passionate, but the amount of ignorance on the subject is maddening sometimes. It is a highly technical deal so the mechanics may not make sense to the lay person, which is part of the problem.
  
  -Yes, it does "kick the can down the road" for 10-15 years, but in that time at the very least we will gain way more intel on the nature of the Iranian nuclear program that ever before. Plus, if it will be much harder for them to break out in 10-15 years as the IAEA will have a sustained presence there.
  -They break the deal, deal is off and full sanctions will start to roll in. Once the IAEA verifies deal is off, they will go back to the UNSC and sanctions will "snap back".
  -The nuclear infrastructure does remain. Yes, that was a source of tension for years. That's why it took so long just to get to this point. Iran subscribes to the argument that enrichment is enshrined as a right in the 1968 Nonproliferation Treaty, which Iran is a member. Argument goes that counties that do not have nuclear weapons pledge to not adopt them, but they can still have access to civilian technology. Iran for years has stated they have the right to enrich. So, they were never going to bargain that away. We tried, going all the way to the early Bush years.
  So, we settled on ok, you can still enrich, but only to below 5%, you have to ship out the excess to Russia, and have to adopt full scope IAEA safeguards.
  -The 24 days thing is one part of it. But, there are multiple layers built in various annexes of the agreement, and more importantly the Additional Protocol that can allow for short term notice of a facility, within 24 hours, not 24 days. Also, even if they did "clean up" a site that they were planning on producing more uranium, the IAEA has tools that can still detect uranium particles in the area. From there, the IAEA can dig deeper and do additional visits to sites, unannounced. They can also go back to the mines and mills as needed.
  -The assets are theirs to spend. Now, sure they could go to fund terrorists, but they could also go to fund domestic projects at home. The latest election, were" moderates" and I use that term loosely, won, saw the parliament want to use more funds to domestic issues. So, we shall see.
  
  The deal is not rushed. It has been going on since the early Bush years. It has just been off and on for years, and the details changed over time. But, in the end, highly technical people, way smarter than any of us, sat down and hashed out the agreement. I trust them and the mechanisms in place. It is not sweeping the problem under the rug. It is addressing it with the best actual policy prescription other than bombing. Again, with no deal, Iran still HEU, is building a plutonium plant, and has no IAEA safeguards. Now, that is all reduced and they are under IAEA safeguards.
  interest
  On your last point, Obama very much cares. In the Jeffrey Goldberg piece from the Atlantic last week, he mentioned how he has a vested interest in making sure it works, cause his name is on it. So, if Iran gets a bomb down the road, it is tied to him. He knows this. So, he is damn well sure to make sure the deal is a good one.
  

  QuakerOats;1788434 wrote:I ask myself, would Mr. Trump make that deal? No.

  Well that makes me feel better.
• Spock

  

  Ptown.......the bottom line is that they got everything they wanted out of the deal and we got nothing.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Spock;1788514 wrote:Ptown.......the bottom line is that they got everything they wanted out of the deal and we got nothing.

  Sigh.
  
  We got them to stop plutonium production (the quickest path to a bomb).
  We got them to sign and adhere to the Additional Protocol, which they have balked at for years.
  We got them to stop enriching to levels above 5%.
  We got them to ship their HEU out of country and to downblend the rest.
  We got them to really reduce one enrichment facility and close another.
  
  So, yeah, we got nothing.