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Vice Presidential Debate

  • I Wear Pants
    Dems thought Biden won and Republicans thought Ryan won. Fucking shocker.
  • se-alum
    http://now.msn.com/now/About_msnNOW.aspx?videoid=3daaad5d-b86b-9057-a162-f8a0157fbaed&src=v5:share:sharepermalink:&from=sharepermalink

    Amazing.
  • se-alum
    Unbelievable that he is one step away from the Presidency.
  • believer
    se-alum;1293666 wrote:Unbelievable that he is one step away from the Presidency.
    scary stuff It really is. This should be reason enough to kick these boyz out of political power.
  • BoatShoes
    believer;1293687 wrote:scary stuff It really is. This should be reason enough to kick these boyz out of political power.
    Oh jeez he's not any dumber than Gerald Ford or George W. Bush. Stop exaggerating.
  • bases_loaded
    BoatShoes;1293694 wrote:Oh jeez he's not any dumber than Gerald Ford or George W. Bush. Stop exaggerating.

    I would be very careful if I was you and be a little more clear on what you mean.
  • jhay78
    BoatShoes;1293694 wrote:Oh jeez he's not any dumber than Gerald Ford or George W. Bush. Stop exaggerating.
    Maybe not. But dude says dumb stuff with far greater frequency.
  • gut
    BoatShoes;1293694 wrote:Oh jeez he's not any dumber than Gerald Ford or George W. Bush. Stop exaggerating.
    But he's a loudmouth and abrasive. Much like Pelosi and Reid. That party's leadership, with the exception of Obama (in some cases), is all about bullying, victimizing and division.
  • BoatShoes
    ccrunner609;1293737 wrote:Joe Biden is up with the dumbest people to occupy any position in the white house. Him and Obama will go down as the worst WH of all time,
    I mean this is just simply not true. Nobody who has any grasp of the history of the presidency could believe this to be true at this point in Obama's presidency. I mean Herbert Hoover??? There's nobody living in tent cities called "Obamavilles"

    I mean my God, when Ronald Reagan got re-elected in 1984, the U3 unemployment rate was 7.2%. Nobody thinks he was a disastrous president. We're at 7.8% U3 unemployment right now following a worse recession that was due to a financial crisis no less...and there's been faster private sector job growth.

    You are exaggerating.
  • BoatShoes
    gut;1293743 wrote:But he's a loudmouth and abrasive. Much like Pelosi and Reid. That party's leadership, with the exception of Obama (in some cases), is all about bullying, victimizing and division.
    Please, there are plenty of loud mouthed and abrasive blowhards in politics. For whatever reason, a lot of blue collar folks seem to find it appealing. I find it highly unlikely that you'd be so critical of a counter-factual world wherein that was Chris Christie up there in a VP debate being abrasive.
  • gut
    BoatShoes;1293750 wrote:Please, there are plenty of loud mouthed and abrasive blowhards in politics. For whatever reason, a lot of blue collar folks seem to find it appealing. I find it highly unlikely that you'd be so critical of a counter-factual world wherein that was Chris Christie up there in a VP debate being abrasive.
    I'd say the same thing. But I think Christie is considerably more polished than Joe bub, and the simple fact is Joe had to be so overbearing because they have no ideas and no record to run on. If you applaud a distraction bereft of substance, than Biden is your guy.
  • gut
    So if Obama can't fix the mess (that he's added to) in 4 more years, do we give him a third term? Is there any sort of shelf-life on how long (if ever) his policies will take to work?
  • BoatShoes
    bases_loaded;1293700 wrote:I would be very careful if I was you and be a little more clear on what you mean.
    The idea being that, if Gerald Ford and George W. Bush were able to at least competently handle the top job despite apparently similar intellect as Joe Biden, there'd probably be no great reason to fear Joe Biden being a heart beat away.
  • BoatShoes
    gut;1293751 wrote:I'd say the same thing. But I think Christie is considerably more polished than Joe bub, and the simple fact is Joe had to be so overbearing because they have no ideas and no record to run on. If you applaud a distraction bereft of substance, than Biden is your guy.
    Look, I don't think it's so outrageous to interrupt when Paul Ryan repeats, disingenuously, again, that Alice Rivlin and Ron Wyden would support the medicare premium support on the table for Romney/Ryan. That is your guy masquerading and obfuscating and Biden stopping it. That is just one example.

    The proper response is exasperation and disgust...not head nodding and mild refutation.

    When a guy says your fiscal policy didn't create jobs but sent you letters so he could take part in it to create jobs in his district. The proper response is laughter and indignation.

    They have a record to run on as far as the economy goes that is as good as Ronald Reagan's when he ran in 1984. You continuing to say no despite things turning around doesn't make what you say true.

    Oh, and did you check out the IMF's world economic outlook? Pretty strong repudiation of the Gut/Romney/Ryan worldview :thumbup: Kind of ironic coming from an organization that has imposed it on less wealthy countries over and and over.
  • BoatShoes
    gut;1293753 wrote:So if Obama can't fix the mess (that he's added to) in 4 more years, do we give him a third term? Is there any sort of shelf-life on how long (if ever) his policies will take to work?
    Joe Biden said it well, if the Republicans would've just gotten out of the way half way through and passed the American Jobs Act for example, do some relief for housing, the unemployment rate would be under 7% and growth would be a whole percentage point higher according to Macroeconomic Advisers.

    It really is something that guys who think like you in Congress are stomping their feet doing everything you can to prevent things from getting better and then you blame it on Obama for looking at business people funny.

    What is even more sad is that there is a good chance your efforts will be rewarded in November.
  • gut
    LMAO....They had virtual carte-blanche for 2 years and all they did was ram thru Obamakare that over half the country doesn't want and then step all over their dicks on the stimulus. America realized it's mistake pretty quick and couldn't boot out Dems fast enough in 2010. It is, again, a failure of leadership that Obama is unable to effectively reach across the aisle. That's a fact of life most President's have to deal with for at least part of their tenure, and the ones who are successful are able to manage with it.

    This administration has failed at pretty much everything it has touched. That's why they are trying so hard to campaign on anything but their record or ideas.
  • gut
    BoatShoes;1293756 wrote:Look, I don't think it's so outrageous to interrupt when Paul Ryan repeats, disingenuously, again, that Alice Rivlin and Ron Wyden would support the medicare premium support on the table for Romney/Ryan. That is your guy masquerading and obfuscating and Biden stopping it. That is just one example.
    Spare me, there was plenty of bs and diarhea flowing form Biden's mouth. He interrupts so that he can respond out of context. It's an intentional tactic of obfuscation to prevent the guy from making his point. It's a tactic bereft of substantive response, which is why you interrupt so you can put words into his mouth and respond to something you can attempt to refute. What he's really doing is trying to cut-off something he won't or can't respond to, and then derail and change the subject.

    That was clearly his marching orders. If Ryan started going somewhere that was bad for Biden, Biden would just talk over him. Because everyone knows if it would have been a debate on substance Biden gets creamed. He's like the boxer that has no chance so he just grabs and ties up the whole match.
  • BoatShoes
    gut;1293762 wrote:LMAO....They had virtual carte-blanche for 2 years and all they did was ram thru Obamakare that over half the country doesn't want and then step all over their dicks on the stimulus. America realized it's mistake pretty quick and couldn't boot out Dems fast enough in 2010. It is, again, a failure of leadership that Obama is unable to effectively reach across the aisle. That's a fact of life most President's have to deal with for at least part of their tenure, and the ones who are successful are able to manage with it.

    This administration has failed at pretty much everything it has touched. That's why they are trying so hard to campaign on anything but their record or ideas.
    I have criticized them for going all in on Obamacare after passing too small a stimulus but it is what it is.

    It is not a failure of leadership when the people elected never had any intention of working with the man. It's like saying George W. Bush was a "failure" of a leader when Democrats had decided wholesale not to work with the man in 2006.

    The Green Lantern Theory of Leadership doesn't work so well in the real world.

    And it's ironic that the pubs got such a huge windfall in 2010 running a mediscare campaign against Obamacare...and then they put Ryan on the Presidential ticket. LOL.

    The administration has done pretty well in the face of the most obstruction in the post-war era after wasting a year trying to get Republicans to take part in the healthcare plan they invented. Hilariously we'd probably be better off if he'd just steam rolled through. Obama has earned a second term and the Republicans and Romney/Ryan do not deserve to the hold the presidency.
  • gut
    BoatShoes;1293768 wrote: It is not a failure of leadership when the people elected never had any intention of working with the man. It's like saying George W. Bush was a "failure" of a leader when Democrats had decided wholesale not to work with the man in 2006. .
    That's bullshit. The Dems had practically a supermajority for 2 years. Stop believing Harry Reid's bullshit. Obama is a failure not only because Repubs don't want to work with him, but because his own party doesn't want to. He's both arrogant and ignorant - that's why people, including his own party, don't follow him.

    The guy is flat out an empty suit. Just admit it. He's in way over his head. His skills are only suited, perhaps, for press secretary or WH spokesman.
  • fish82
    gut;1293841 wrote:That's bull****. The Dems had practically a supermajority for 2 years. Stop believing Harry Reid's bull****. Obama is a failure not only because Repubs don't want to work with him, but because his own party doesn't want to. He's both arrogant and ignorant - that's why people, including his own party, don't follow him.

    The guy is flat out an empty suit. Just admit it. He's in way over his head. His skills are only suited, perhaps, for press secretary or WH spokesman.
    Class dismissed. Well said.

    Probably his biggest similarity with Carter, IMO.
  • HitsRus
    I mean my God, when Ronald Reagan got re-elected in 1984, the U3 unemployment rate was 7.2%. Nobody thinks he was a disastrous president. We're at 7.8% U3 unemployment right now following a worse recession that was due to a financial crisis no less...and there's been faster private sector job growth.
    That's as misleading as the people who you support. While unemployment in Reagan's first term remained high by todays standards, inflation (which was the BIG enemy back then) dropped fron 13% to 4%...a HUGE improvement in the economy.

    How long do you think inflation will remain low with the government printing money at a record clip and no immediate plans by your boys to even slow it down?
    Please, there are plenty of loud mouthed and abrasive blowhards in politics. For whatever reason, a lot of blue collar folks seem to find it appealing
    LOL....but those blowhards aren't running for Vice Pres. now are they?
    Biden was rude, inconsididerate, unprofessional, and unbecoming of a vice president. That he sits a 'heartbeat away' from the Presidency is indeed disconcerting.
  • believer
    HitsRus;1293908 wrote:Biden was rude, inconsididerate, unprofessional, and unbecoming of a vice president. That he sits a 'heartbeat away' from the Presidency is indeed disconcerting.
    Hell it's downright scary.
  • HitsRus
  • BoatShoes
    HitsRus;1293908 wrote:That's as misleading as the people who you support. While unemployment in Reagan's first term remained high by todays standards, inflation (which was the BIG enemy back then) dropped fron 13% to 4%...a HUGE improvement in the economy.

    How long do you think inflation will remain low with the government printing money at a record clip and no immediate plans by your boys to even slow it down?



    LOL....but those blowhards aren't running for Vice Pres. now are they?
    Biden was rude, inconsididerate, unprofessional, and unbecoming of a vice president. That he sits a 'heartbeat away' from the Presidency is indeed disconcerting.
    1. Weird, that's inflation that is still higher than the inflation we have today, Lol. Moving the goalposts. Ronald Reagan earned a second term thanks in large part to Paul Volker (who was the reason for the decrease in inflation) and on the same standard Obama has earned a second term thanks in large part to Ben Bernanke acting when Congress would not.

    2. It is not disconcerting that a man with 39 years of experience in the Senate is a heartbeat away, despite how you might feel about his personality or mannerisms. And like I said, for whatever reason, Mr. Biden's personality is actually appealing to a lot of blue collar folks.

    3. And, call me crazy, but it's not that rude in my opinion to interject when the advocate across from you is misleading the audience repeatedly. A lawyer shouldn't be allowed to freely mislead a jury and so we allow the opposing advocate to object. A politician in a debate shouldn't just get a free pass to mislead the public and so it's not rude to stop a lie from being told.
  • BoatShoes
    gut;1293841 wrote:That's bullshit. The Dems had practically a supermajority for 2 years. Stop believing Harry Reid's bullshit. Obama is a failure not only because Repubs don't want to work with him, but because his own party doesn't want to. He's both arrogant and ignorant - that's why people, including his own party, don't follow him.

    The guy is flat out an empty suit. Just admit it. He's in way over his head. His skills are only suited, perhaps, for press secretary or WH spokesman.
    Lol. Get the hell outta here guy. Democrats are fully behind this president.

    And second of all, the claim that he had almost a supermajority for two years is nonsense...one of those lies that Mitt Romney repeats (although it's immoral for him to drink tea?). He had 60 votes including two conservative leaning independents from July 7 2009 when Al Franken got seated until August 25th when Ted Kennedy died. Seven weeks is not even close to two years. They had it again when Paul Kirk was appointed to replace Kennedy. But it's really silly to considerate a supermajority anyways when members of the caucus were just as conservative on budget and economic issues as a rank and file republican. That is, don't understand how the world works in a depressed economy. Ya, dig?

    And, what democrats don't want to work with him? Oh, you mean I suppose the Ben Nelson's and Joe Manchin's and Joe Lieberman's of the world...democratic senators from Red State's or conservative leaning Dems who are beholden to the same failed ideology on the economy as you that the IMF has essentially shat down the toilet now?

    Democrats were frustrated after his last debate performance because it was a super-fail but most democrats like the guy way more than I do, for example. You're just making it up when you say democrats don't want to work with the guy.

    Obama has earned a second term and a party who is beholden to an economic ideology that the IMF has repudiated and who has done everything in their power to ensure that the economy does not get better does not deserve the presidency.