Wisconsin Teachers shut down schools for 2nd day to Protest Elimination of CBA

• believer

  

  CenterBHSFan;693245 wrote:I just don't understand how the teachers thought that the "blue flue" was going to help their relationship with the community.

  Oh I'm certain the teachers didn't give a rat's rear. While they have the audacity of pointing fingers at gubmint officials and the voting taxpayers for failing to pass along more money "at the peril of our children" they don't seem to have any problems screwing our kids as leverage to meet their demands.
  
  I admire Walker for making a courageous political stand against this nonsense. At the very least it has brought the absurdity of this issue to the forefront of public scrutiny.
• analogkid

  CenterBHSFan;693245 wrote:analogkid, I think the school district was being exceptionally fair to those teachers.

  
  Agreed. Abuse the system and face the consequences
• O-Trap

  

  Tenet 1: Teachers may (and do, from time to time) refuse to teach the kids for stretches at a time unless their demands are met.
  Tenet 2: Administrations go into debt past the point of being forseeably paid off in order to get the teachers back into the classrooms teaching the kids.
  
  And yet, the teachers are the ones who are looking out for the children's best interests?
• believer

  

  O-Trap;694983 wrote:Tenet 1: Teachers may (and do, from time to time) refuse to teach the kids for stretches at a time unless their demands are met.
  Tenet 2: Administrations go into debt past the point of being forseeably paid off in order to get the teachers back into the classrooms teaching the kids.
  
  And yet, the teachers are the ones who are looking out for the children's best interests?

  Absolutely....provided, of course, our children's best interests include the NEA's best interests.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Bill Gates weighs in:
  
  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_governors_bill_gates
  
  Agree completely, the Masters requirement for the higher salary scale is worthless - it is just a race to the bottom to get the degree. Seniority is also irrelevant, in every other "profession" the old dogs that can't chase anymore get put down - it can be proverbially humane. But the current system is antiquated. And as Believer posts above the interests of the children is absolutely bullshit.
• iclfan2

  

  What I don't get is that they would risk 1500 workers getting laid off than just deal with it. Same sort of thing happened in New Jersey, I believe all Christie was asking for was a pay freeze and for them to pay some percentage of their healthcare. The union stood fast, and the resut, a ton of layoffs. These people are stupid and would rather fight for the outdated union then keep their jobs.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  iclfan2;695420 wrote:What I don't get is that they would risk 1500 workers getting laid off than just deal with it. Same sort of thing happened in New Jersey, I believe all Christie was asking for was a pay freeze and for them to pay some percentage of their healthcare. The union stood fast, and the resut, a ton of layoffs. These people are stupid and would rather fight for the outdated union then keep their jobs.

  
  We've seen this before. The union heads don't give a damn if people lose their jobs as long as the union saves face. That's why we've actually seen unions hold their position even when the company had to go out of business as a result. If it was the union's top people losing their jobs, you wouldn't see this nonsense. But they're making six figure salaries and aren't going anywhere.
• believer

  

  Writerbuckeye;695480 wrote:If it was the union's top people losing their jobs, you wouldn't see this nonsense. But they're making six figure salaries and aren't going anywhere.

  Union dues are good for some things.
• Classyposter58

  

  Haa I'm in a union and I'm strongly against this. I think teachers need to shut up and teach...I mean they make 12 months of salary in 8. I really don't get why teachers even have unions. I mean come on it's not like you're in unsafe environment like a factory...u sit behind a desk
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Classyposter58;695551 wrote:Haa I'm in a union and I'm strongly against this. I think teachers need to shut up and teach...I mean they make 12 months of salary in 8. I really don't get why teachers even have unions. I mean come on it's not like you're in unsafe environment like a factory...u sit behind a desk

  Well. You just rattled the cage and woke the bear lol
• O-Trap

  

  Classyposter58;695551 wrote:Haa I'm in a union and I'm strongly against this. I think teachers need to shut up and teach...I mean they make 12 months of salary in 8. I really don't get why teachers even have unions. I mean come on it's not like you're in unsafe environment like a factory...u sit behind a desk

  To be fair, teaching at Akron North might be classified as an unsafe environment.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Ohio gets in on the act!
  
  http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ohio-union-plan-like-rb-215366419.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=
  
  My favorite part:
  
  "One of the Columbus protesters, Ann Furek, 50, of Dresden, a retired public school teacher, carried a sign that opposed the proposal."
  
  Must be nice to be able to retire at 50! I've only got 13 more years!
• Classyposter58

  

  CenterBHSFan;695570 wrote:Well. You just rattled the cage and woke the bear lol

  
  Haa well that's what happens when you grow up a hardcore republican and work in a union
• bigkahuna

  I just thought this was an interesting read to say the least, whether you're for this bill or against it.
  
  http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110301/el_yblog_theticket/wisconsin-voters-express-buyers-remorse-over-gov-scott-walker
• dwccrew

  

  bigkahuna;696707 wrote:I just thought this was an interesting read to say the least, whether you're for this bill or against it.
  
  http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110301/el_yblog_theticket/wisconsin-voters-express-buyers-remorse-over-gov-scott-walker

  
  I'm not putting too much stock into this poll. It even states it is a democratic allied poll and the disparity wasn't even that much between approval and disapproval. Right now it is a shit storm, but if he can get this through and get Wisky a little more healthy, financially speaking, he'll be fine. I think only time will tell.
• believer

  

  dwccrew;696880 wrote:I'm not putting too much stock into this poll. It even states it is a democratic allied poll and the disparity wasn't even that much between approval and disapproval. Right now it is a shit storm, but if he can get this through and get Wisky a little more healthy, financially speaking, he'll be fine. I think only time will tell.

  I wish Walker all the best.
  
  Reagan rattled PATCO's cage and won. Walker is rattling the NEA's cage and setting a national example.
  
  It's going to take political courage to balance the public accounting ledger and Walker is paving the way.
  
  The Repubs are looking for someone to step up to the national batting box and take on Obama. If Walker is successful, we may just have found our man.
• bigkahuna

  dwccrew;696880 wrote:I'm not putting too much stock into this poll. It even states it is a democratic allied poll and the disparity wasn't even that much between approval and disapproval. Right now it is a shit storm, but if he can get this through and get Wisky a little more healthy, financially speaking, he'll be fine. I think only time will tell.

  
  I realize that.
  
  However, I think it's getting to the point where people are getting sick of it.
  1. Senate Dems are hiding
  2. Assembly Repubs. did some "shady" voting.
  3. The governor and Congress aren't willing to budge with negotiations or amendments.
  
  4. IT'S ALL on National News and biased or not is putting a negative light on the State of Wisconsin. If anything, Wisconsinites probably want something done, so they can all get on with their business.
• fan_from_texas

  bigkahuna;697162 wrote:I realize that.
  
  However, I think it's getting to the point where people are getting sick of it.
  1. Senate Dems are hiding
  2. Assembly Repubs. did some "shady" voting.
  3. The governor and Congress aren't willing to budge with negotiations or amendments.
  
  4. IT'S ALL on National News and biased or not is putting a negative light on the State of Wisconsin. If anything, Wisconsinites probably want something done, so they can all get on with their business.

  
  I live in Wisconsin. While I can't speak for everyone here, the general attitude expressed by people around is anger at the Dems for leaving the state. Granted, people are upset about the cuts, but everyone knew cuts were going to happen--that's why we voted in Walker in the first place.
• bigkahuna

  So, is it not the big stand off that the media is making it out to be?
  
  It almost seems like the entire state is in a pause right now, at least to me. I know that's not how it actually is.
• stlouiedipalma

  believer;696929 wrote:I wish Walker all the best.
  
  Reagan rattled PATCO's cage and won. Walker is rattling the NEA's cage and setting a national example.
  
  It's going to take political courage to balance the public accounting ledger and Walker is paving the way.
  
  The Repubs are looking for someone to step up to the national batting box and take on Obama. If Walker is successful, we may just have found our man.

  
  Unless you have simply ignored history, PATCO was engaged in an illegal strike. Injuctions ordering their return to work were ignored, fines were levied against the union and its leaders and they were ultmately fired. Nothing resembling this is taking place in Wisconsin. To compare Walker to Reagan is, IMO, an insult to Ronald Reagan. Hell, I didn't even like Reagan, but his firing of the air-traffic controllers was justified by law. Walker is, to put it mildly, engaging in class warfare.
• Con_Alma

  Patco had a "no strike' clause in their contract and they were violating it.
  
  I hardly view this, however, as class warfare. That's far from a mild definition.
• fan_from_texas

  bigkahuna;697181 wrote:So, is it not the big stand off that the media is making it out to be?
  
  It almost seems like the entire state is in a pause right now, at least to me. I know that's not how it actually is.

  
  There are still a bunch of people in Madison protesting, but this is by no means a stand-off that is shutting down the state. I wouldn't even say it's major news here anymore, though there are still regular updates on the nightly news. It's even drifted off as water cooler conversation by this point.
  
  People I talk to are generally of the opinion that cutbacks suck, but we've been having them in the private sector for a long time, and our state has a $3.6 billion deficit, which must, by law, be closed. We already have some of the highest state income taxes in the country. Our property taxes are outrageous (we paid $8,100 last year on a modest home). Our sales taxes are high. Basically, spending has to be cut, and that's being done. When one of the worst school districts in the country (Milwaukee) has average teacher comp. pushing $100K, you know there's a problem.
  
  Students in Madison like to protest over everything--it's really a unique place (think Berkeley, or for an Ohio example, maybe Oberlin). Ever since I've lived here, there have been regular protests in Madison over all sorts of things (though admittedly this is on a MUCH bigger scale).
• stlouiedipalma

  fan_from_texas;697270 wrote:There are still a bunch of people in Madison protesting, but this is by no means a stand-off that is shutting down the state. I wouldn't even say it's major news here anymore, though there are still regular updates on the nightly news. It's even drifted off as water cooler conversation by this point.
  
  People I talk to are generally of the opinion that cutbacks suck, but we've been having them in the private sector for a long time, and our state has a $3.6 billion deficit, which must, by law, be closed. We already have some of the highest state income taxes in the country. Our property taxes are outrageous (we paid $8,100 last year on a modest home). Our sales taxes are high. Basically, spending has to be cut, and that's being done. When one of the worst school districts in the country (Milwaukee) has average teacher comp. pushing $100K, you know there's a problem.
  
  Students in Madison like to protest over everything--it's really a unique place (think Berkeley, or for an Ohio example, maybe Oberlin). Ever since I've lived here, there have been regular protests in Madison over all sorts of things (though admittedly this is on a MUCH bigger scale).

  
  OK, your income taxes are high, your property taxes are high and your sales taxes are high. You have, by your definition, one of the worst school districts in the country. Why on earth would you continue to live there?
• fan_from_texas

  stlouiedipalma;697289 wrote:OK, your income taxes are high, your property taxes are high and your sales taxes are high. You have, by your definition, one of the worst school districts in the country. Why on earth would you continue to live there?

  
  As for me, I don't live in the MPS district. We live south of MKE in a nice suburban district. As for living in the state in general, we've talked about moving to more friendly tax jurisdictions. But we have family here, so for now, we've stayed.
  
  For other people living in the MPS districts, they stay because they're extremely poor, likely don't know any better, and probably don't have any better options.
• jhay78

  

  bigkahuna;696707 wrote:I just thought this was an interesting read to say the least, whether you're for this bill or against it.
  
  http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110301/el_yblog_theticket/wisconsin-voters-express-buyers-remorse-over-gov-scott-walker

  
  That's great- except there won't be an election today, tomorrow, or a year from now (unless Wisc has the potential for recall). Walker's got 4 years; they better get used to it.
  

  Two months into his first term, a new poll shows Wisconsin voters are unhappy with GOP Gov. Scott Walker--and would send him packing if they were given a do-over of the 2010 election that sent him to the statehouse in Madison.
  
  Amid the firestorm Walker touched off in going after the state's public-sector unions, voters indicated to Public Policy Polling (PDF) that Walker would lose a rematch with his Democratic opponent, Milwaukee mayor Tom Barrett, if the election were held today. Fifty-two percent of respondents said that today they would vote for Barrett and 45 percent said they would vote for Walker. Walker's job approval/disapproval was also 46 to 52 percent in the poll. PPP is considered to be a Democratic-allied firm