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Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

  • tsst_fballfan
    Glory Days;732399 wrote:When did I say they get promotions based on time in service? Even if a soldier never gets promoted ever, they still receive pay increases every 2 years.
    This is not entirely correct. If a soldier never gets promoted they reach retention guidelines and are automatically discharged for not making rank.
  • dwccrew
    Glory Days;732355 wrote:I understand its not union. but the Federal deficit is that many times larger than Ohio’s, so imagine how much money would be saved if the military was paid on merit and not time in service.
    And I addressed that I feel the military budget is way bloated, however, you continually stating how the military pays their personnel only supports my theory of keeping unions out of public sector. The military is able to get its members paid without the need of a union, so why should police and firefighters be different?

    And as stated below, you don't just get pay increases by time in service, if you are not excelling and making rank, you reach retention guidelines. It is based on your merit that you get promoted, thus getting significant pay increases. This is how the public sector should operate. The overbloated federal deficit, mainly the military budget, is not overbloated solely because of personnel pay but defense contracts and spending projects.
    tsst_fballfan;732437 wrote:This is not entirely correct. If a soldier never gets promoted they reach retention guidelines and are automatically discharged for not making rank.

    This.
  • FALLSGUY
    THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH UNIONS OR SB5! SUPERS AREN"T IN THE UNION! Figure out what you are talking about before you open your mouth!
  • FALLSGUY
    Look,the people who hate unions are going to say what they are going to say no matter what anyone says. Its the same on the other side. The people who have an open mind and can think on their own will realize that SAB 5 IS an attack on all collective bargaining. It is not about saving taxpayer dollars. READ THE BILL. Its about neutering unions in favor of transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires and multi million dollar corporations. All of us who have incomes under $100,000 will pay for this.
  • Writerbuckeye
    FALLSGUY;732617 wrote:THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH UNIONS OR SB5! SUPERS AREN"T IN THE UNION! Figure out what you are talking about before you open your mouth!

    I'd argue a superintendent's salary has everything to do with the EFFECT unions have had on all salaries within school districts. All of them are inflated for the areas in which they live -- and if you inflate those at the "bottom" of the salary structure, the inflation has to travel up the chain of command to keep things in "balance" between employees and their supervisors.

    To argue that a superintendent or principal's pay has nothing to do with collective bargaining and the unions is being disingenuous at best.

    And what's going on with SB5 has nothing to do with "hating" unions and more to do with believing unions have no place in the public sector. When FDR believes public unions are a bad thing, you need to listen. That man would have had unions in every other aspect of the American workforce. He understood that the economic pressures of collective bargaining in the public arena cannot be sustained by taxpayers.
  • sleeper
    FALLSGUY;732620 wrote:Look,the people who hate unions are going to say what they are going to say no matter what anyone says. Its the same on the other side. The people who have an open mind and can think on their own will realize that SAB 5 IS an attack on all collective bargaining. It is not about saving taxpayer dollars. READ THE BILL. Its about neutering unions in favor of transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires and multi million dollar corporations. All of us who have incomes under $100,000 will pay for this.

    Has anyone in this entire thread argued that SB5 ISN'T an attack on collective bargaining? I don't need to read the bill, I'm glad it passed.
  • LJ
    FALLSGUY;732620 wrote: The people who have an open mind and can think on their own will realize that SAB 5 IS an attack on all collective bargaining.


    Umm.... duh?
  • Glory Days
    dwccrew;732610 wrote:And I addressed that I feel the military budget is way bloated, however, you continually stating how the military pays their personnel only supports my theory of keeping unions out of public sector. The military is able to get its members paid without the need of a union, so why should police and firefighters be different?

    And as stated below, you don't just get pay increases by time in service, if you are not excelling and making rank, you reach retention guidelines. It is based on your merit that you get promoted, thus getting significant pay increases. This is how the public sector should operate. The overbloated federal deficit, mainly the military budget, is not overbloated solely because of personnel pay but defense contracts and spending projects.
    The military doesn’t really have to appeal to the public either to get paid better the way police and fire departments do. And like you said, the tax base is larger, so the money will always be there for the military.
    The public sector does operate by getting merit promotions in order to get the large pay increases. Problem is the departments are much smaller with much much less turnover than the military. I don’t know about you, but I never saw anyone not get promoted a few ranks eventually in the military.
  • Bigdogg
    LJ;732687 wrote:Umm.... duh?

    Lj with his typical whit. Nice contribution.
  • LJ
    Bigdogg;732858 wrote:Lj with his typical whit. Nice contribution.

    You mean "wit"?
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    "Its about neutering unions in favor of transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires and multi million dollar corporations. All of us who have incomes under $100,000 will pay for this."

    Tell you what - I'm an idiot who can't read the bill (public school education) - why don't you explain how this has anything to do with transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires multi million dollar corporations, I want to know where to pick up my share.
  • Writerbuckeye
    Bigdogg;732858 wrote:Lj with his typical whit. Nice contribution.

    A whit of wit is about all you have.
  • O-Trap
    GUYS! GUYS! WATER IS WET! FIRE IS HOT! VEGETABLES ARE GOOD FOR YOU! AND SB5 IS AN ATTACK ON COLLECTIVE BARGAINING!!!!

  • dwccrew
    FALLSGUY;732620 wrote:Look,the people who hate unions are going to say what they are going to say no matter what anyone says. Its the same on the other side. The people who have an open mind and can think on their own will realize that SAB 5 IS an attack on all collective bargaining. It is not about saving taxpayer dollars. READ THE BILL. Its about neutering unions in favor of transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires and multi million dollar corporations. All of us who have incomes under $100,000 will pay for this.
    Please explain the underlined portion. I fail to see how saving tax dollars is going to line the pockets of anyone but the taxpayers. I think if you are against SB5 you are attacking the middle class. I am middle class and SB5 is not effecting my job at all. Is anyone else here middle class? If so, please explain how SB5 is effecting you. And if it doesn effect you, try not to use the non-factual fear mongering tactics that the union has told you to believe.
    Glory Days;732696 wrote:The military doesn’t really have to appeal to the public either to get paid better the way police and fire departments do. And like you said, the tax base is larger, so the money will always be there for the military.
    The public sector does operate by getting merit promotions in order to get the large pay increases. Problem is the departments are much smaller with much much less turnover than the military. I don’t know about you, but I never saw anyone not get promoted a few ranks eventually in the military.

    I actually knew of one person who did not get promoted ever and was eventually discharged. But this particular person had a lot of disciplinary problems. Had their been a union involved, he probably wouldn't have been discharged.

    I don't disagree with every part of your opinion, but we do disagree on the important aspects of this bill.
  • Belly35
    More reason Unions has no place in today market and political arena.
    Unions cost America jobs and burdens the taxpayers…


    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/04/hidden_bailout_of_unions_and_b.html
  • tsst_fballfan
    Private sector unions need neutered as well IMHO. Why should someone be FORCED to join a union and be FORCED to pay union extortion (dues) and be FORCED to abide by union contractual guidelines as a condition of employment if they do not want to join a union? :shrugs:
  • O-Trap
    tsst_fballfan;733087 wrote:Private sector unions need neutered as well IMHO. Why should someone be FORCED to join a union and be FORCED to pay union extortion (dues) and be FORCED to abide by union contractual guidelines as a condition of employment if they do not want to join a union? :shrugs:

    They shouldn't, plain and simple.
  • FatHobbit
    http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/04/05/copy/unions-want-members-to-pay-for-sb-5-referendum.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

    Union members may be asked to fund an add campaign against SB5.
  • Bigdogg
    LJ;732871 wrote:You mean "wit"?

    As in you are a nit?
  • O-Trap
    Bigdogg;733133 wrote:As in you are a nit?
    Gibby throws a fit.
    Many are full of shit.

    I like to rhyme.
  • CenterBHSFan
    From your article:

    "I am a fiscal conservative and belong to the tea party," Ash wrote. "I am appalled that the OEA feels they can commandeer funds from my paycheck without my approval."

    Every single union member should be appalled by this. People should be able to do this on a voluntary basis, not a mandatory basis. I can't imagine the gall that it would take to conceive that this is acceptable!
  • LJ
    Bigdogg;733133 wrote:As in you are a nit?

    So you don't like what people have to say so you call them names? Nice.
  • ernest_t_bass

    Nothing but pure bull-shit! I'm tired of paying fees. I like the protection that a union brings (not the protection of bad teachers, but protection from sticky situations, etc.), but I CANNOT stand the dues/fees we MUST pay.
  • Prescott
    Is anyone else here middle class?If so, please explain how SB5 is effecting you.
    I'm in the middle class and SB5 has no direct effect on me. It will have a larger effect on me, if it is repealed.
  • O-Trap
    ernest_t_bass;733190 wrote:Nothing but pure bull-shit! I'm tired of paying fees. I like the protection that a union brings (not the protection of bad teachers, but protection from sticky situations, etc.), but I CANNOT stand the dues/fees we MUST pay.
    My wife shares this sentiment as a non-Union teacher.