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Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

  • fish82
    Yikes. Me thinks this might not play well in Peoria. ;)
  • FatHobbit
    ernest_t_bass;733190 wrote:Nothing but pure bull-shit! I'm tired of paying fees. I like the protection that a union brings (not the protection of bad teachers, but protection from sticky situations, etc.), but I CANNOT stand the dues/fees we MUST pay.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk, but do you not want them to fight this? How should they pay for the campaign?
  • dwccrew
    ernest_t_bass;733190 wrote:Nothing but pure bull-shit! I'm tired of paying fees. I like the protection that a union brings (not the protection of bad teachers, but protection from sticky situations, etc.), but I CANNOT stand the dues/fees we MUST pay.
    One of my close friends is a high school math teacher and I asked him the same question I will ask you; how does the union protect you in sticky situations?
    Prescott;733193 wrote:I'm in the middle class and SB5 has no direct effect on me. It will have a larger effect on me, if it is repealed.

    Will it have a positive or negative impact on you if it is repealed? How will it impact you?
  • ernest_t_bass
    FatHobbit;733220 wrote:I'm not trying to be a jerk, but do you not want them to fight this? How should they pay for the campaign?

    From their large bank account.
  • ernest_t_bass
    dwccrew;733222 wrote:One of my close friends is a high school math teacher and I asked him the same question I will ask you; how does the union protect you in sticky situations?

    Kids get in a fight. You break it up, but to break it up, you have to put your hands on the students. Parents complain, want you fired.
  • FatHobbit
    ernest_t_bass;733223 wrote:From their large bank account.

    Do they have $20 million? I honestly don't know.
  • ernest_t_bass
    FatHobbit;733226 wrote:Do they have $20 million? I honestly don't know.

    $20 mill? I thought I read $5 million.
  • FatHobbit
    ernest_t_bass;733227 wrote:$20 mill? I thought I read $5 million.

    I think the fees are supposed to generate $5 million, but they expect to spend $20 million. (not sure if they are kicking in $15 million or expect to have more fees.)
  • dwccrew
    ernest_t_bass;733224 wrote:Kids get in a fight. You break it up, but to break it up, you have to put your hands on the students. Parents complain, want you fired.

    This didn't answer my question. How does the union help you in that situation?
  • fish82
    dwccrew;733231 wrote:This didn't answer my question. How does the union help you in that situation?
    I think Rocco pays the parents a visit and "convinces" them to drop it. ;)
  • ernest_t_bass
    dwccrew;733231 wrote:This didn't answer my question. How does the union help you in that situation?

    Legal representation if the school does not take your side.
  • ernest_t_bass
    fish82;733241 wrote:I think Rocco pays the parents a visit and "convinces" them to drop it. ;)

    But I like this answer better.
  • O-Trap
    ernest_t_bass;733246 wrote:But I like this answer better.
    Hell, I'll do it. I cost less than Rocco, and I'm just as convincing. :D
  • dwccrew
    ernest_t_bass;733243 wrote:Legal representation is the school does not take your side.

    You need the union for this? First, I think that situation is highly unlikely, especially when witnesses are around. Second, if the situation did occur, they'd have to prove something happened. Third, you could get your own legal representation and countersue so you wouldn't have to pay out of your own pocket. Ultimately, I don't see the school siding with a student in this situation.

    I just don't buy into the "union protects me" theory that people have been brainwashed into believing. I have belonged to 2 different unions in my life (UTU and Teamsters) and have never felt they have protected me at all. Union leaders are fighting for their own survival, not their members.
  • ernest_t_bass
    dwccrew;733272 wrote:Union leaders are fighting for their own survival, not their members.

    I will not disagree with that! From my own personal experience though... I've had a DICK super before, who would have gotten rid of people he did not like (who many consider assets to the district) if it weren't for the union. There are bad teachers, and there are bad bosses. He was a bad boss, a tyrant. He's gone, but some of the people he wanted out are still here, and are assets to the district.
  • CenterBHSFan
    FatHobbit;733230 wrote:I think the fees are supposed to generate $5 million, but they expect to spend $20 million. (not sure if they are kicking in $15 million or expect to have more fees.)
    This raises another question of mine. If a union has that kind of money in the bank, what do they do with it to help out individuals within that union who need a little help after getting laid off or something?
    I mean, how can a union be sitting on money like THAT and play the "picked on poor-mouth union employee" schpiel? I mean, they must think that we're a bunch of suckers or something. :rolleyes:
  • tsst_fballfan
    CenterBHSFan;733313 wrote:... I mean, they must think that we're a bunch of suckers or something. :rolleyes:
    They don't just think it they count on it!
  • Writerbuckeye
    Some folks in these unions are clueless where their money goes. Saw on another site discussion (Facebook) where one individual was arguing that unions were prohibited by law from using funds for political donations. Three of the top five donors in the last political cycle were government unions (American Teachers, SEIU and AFSCME).
  • tsst_fballfan
    Writerbuckeye;733332 wrote:Some folks in these unions are clueless where their money goes....
    This may help some.
    Center for Public Integrity wrote:At the 3.2 million-member National Education Association, President Dennis Van Roekel made $397,721 in salary and benefits in 2009. Thirty other officers and employees of the nation’s largest teachers’ union made more than $200,000 that year. Public school teachers, by comparison, were paid a national average of $54,319 in 2009.

    The American Federation of Teachers, a smaller teachers’ union, paid President Randi Weingarten $428,384 in salary and benefits. Eight others at the 887,000-member union, which also represents college faculty and school support staff, earned more than $200,000 in 2009.
  • Gblock
    no different than the salaries that are made by the school choice folks kasich is teamed up with...i believe the one woman and her husband whose names both leave me right now she made 265,000 and he made over 300,000 in salary then they also had like 70,000 deferred compensation. their group of charter schools also spent 124 million or so and made 155 mill or so. they have also made simililar size donations to the GOP specifically to kasich. this goes both ways

    http://www.journal-news.com/news/ohio-news/school-choice-expanding-as-record-election-fine-languishes-1120815.html
  • derek bomar
    tsst_fballfan;733351 wrote:This may help some.

    I just through up in my mouth a little
  • Writerbuckeye
    Gblock;733361 wrote:no different than the salaries that are made by the school choice folks kasich is teamed up with...i believe the one woman and her husband whose names both leave me right now she made 265,000 and he made over 300,000 in salary then they also had like 70,000 deferred compensation. their group of charter schools also spent 124 million or so and made 155 mill or so. they have also made simililar size donations to the GOP specifically to kasich. this goes both ways

    http://www.journal-news.com/news/ohio-news/school-choice-expanding-as-record-election-fine-languishes-1120815.html
    Your link doesn't work, anymore.

    My relevant question is this: are those individuals and groups privately or publicly funded?
  • Writerbuckeye
    Gblock;733361 wrote:no different than the salaries that are made by the school choice folks kasich is teamed up with...i believe the one woman and her husband whose names both leave me right now she made 265,000 and he made over 300,000 in salary then they also had like 70,000 deferred compensation. their group of charter schools also spent 124 million or so and made 155 mill or so. they have also made simililar size donations to the GOP specifically to kasich. this goes both ways

    http://www.journal-news.com/news/ohio-news/school-choice-expanding-as-record-election-fine-languishes-1120815.html

    I'd argue it's different because the money isn't being coerced from folks like union dues are, and used without permission of the folks who were mandated to give the money -- again the way union folks are. Many people who are forced to pay dues do not want their money used for these political campaigns, but they haven no say in the matter. Also, I'd argue the source of the union funds is taxpayer dollars as opposed to money that is privately donated (I'm assuming here, but don't know for certain the source of funding for this group...however, it appears to be private and not public.)
  • Gblock
    Writerbuckeye;733376 wrote:I'd argue it's different because the money isn't being coerced from folks like union dues are, and used without permission of the folks who were mandated to give the money -- again the way union folks are. Many people who are forced to pay dues do not want their money used for these political campaigns, but they haven no say in the matter. Also, I'd argue the source of the union funds is taxpayer dollars as opposed to money that is privately donated (I'm assuming here, but don't know for certain the source of funding for this group...however, it appears to be private and not public.)
    i agree im trying to say how it is very similar in the way politics are today...big money buys politicians and buys votes, buys laws and policies. i just read that this devos family has donated 7 million dollars of their own money to school choice candidates knowing that if they get elected they stand the chance to make tons more in the future. it goes both ways for sure tho.
  • stlouiedipalma
    Haven't we learned by now that whenever an individual or corporation invests heavily in candidates' campaigns there is a payback expected? That goes for unions, the Koch brothers, this family you speak of and anyone who donates large sums. That is why I am against large donations of any kind to political candidates. Put a $100 limit on all campaign contributions, whether from an individual or a corporation. If we severely limit the amount which can be donated we can cut down on the influence of the donations.