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Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

  • dwccrew
    Maybe we should fine and penalize people for having unprotected sex and catching a STD. Same concept. Buy condoms (insurance) or else face the consequences.
  • Ty Webb
    dwccrew;681367 wrote:Maybe we should fine and penalize people for having unprotected sex and catching a STD. Same concept. Buy condoms (insurance) or else face the consequences.

    Not even close to the same thing......
  • dwccrew
    Ty Webb;681365 wrote:How in the hell is that taking away liberty when it it HELPING people??

    In my mind,taking away liberty is taking away your right to choose to where to live,If you want to have children and how many,to choose where you want to work.

    Who is it helping? It's only helping the people who want insurance yet can't afford it. If I can afford insurance but I don't want it, why should I be FORCED to buy it? Are you this obtuse or what? Yes, it helps those who can't afford insurance. What if someone doesn't want to buy insurance?
  • dwccrew
    Ty Webb;681371 wrote:Not even close to the same thing......

    Sure it is, you are forcing someone to purchase a product or service to prevent something catastrophic. How is it different? Please explain.....
  • CenterBHSFan
    dwccrew;681355 wrote:Now I know you are Isadore. MB never called you unprofessional. Only Isadore makes comments like this. HAHAHAHAHAHA
    Yeah, but wouldn't Isadore have quoted a documented law case that set precedent? lolol
  • dwccrew
    As far as healthcare reform goes, I am done with that topic since this thread is about SB5, if you'd like to discuss further, Ty, we can start a new thread or PM me.
  • Ty Webb
    dwccrew;681373 wrote:Who is it helping? It's only helping the people who want insurance yet can't afford it. If I can afford insurance but I don't want it, why should I be FORCED to buy it? Are you this obtuse or what? Yes, it helps those who can't afford insurance. What if someone doesn't want to buy insurance?

    You answered your own question....but

    Let me ask you all a question.....

    Would you rather pay say $90 a month or go hundreds of thousands(or perhaps millions) of dollars in debt?
  • bonelizzard
    dwccrew;681355 wrote:Now I know you are Isadore. MB never called you unprofessional. Only Isadore makes comments like this. HAHAHAHAHAHA

    not sure what this means but I'm glad you got a laugh out of it.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    Watch your local news tomorrow and see the 1,000's of public employees surrounding the statehouse and voicing their opinions about SB5.
    The future of public education in the future of our PROFESSIONAL lawmakers hands. Your kid's future of quality public education could change drastically if SB5 passes.

    Not sure who this Isadore is but no, I'm no imposter and I found a forum to voice my opinion and to listen to some opinions from those in the private sector. That's all.
  • CenterBHSFan
    Ty Webb;681365 wrote:How in the hell is that taking away liberty when it it HELPING people??

    In my mind,taking away liberty is taking away your right to choose to where to live,If you want to have children and how many,to choose where you want to work.
    Are you familiar with the term: tyranny of government ?
  • Fab4Runner
    Ty Webb;681365 wrote:How in the hell is that taking away liberty when it it HELPING people??

    In my mind,taking away liberty is taking away your right to choose to where to live,If you want to have children and how many,to choose where you want to work.

    Having insurance would most certainly help me but that's beside the point. It should be MY CHOICE whether or not I want to buy it. Under this new law it is not my choice. They are forcing me to buy it or will penalize me. Once again, how is taking away someones freedom to choose NOT taking away liberty...and freedom? Whether or not you agree with the bill or not you simply must agree with this point. If you do not you are ignoring the facts and reality.
  • Ty Webb
    CenterBHSFan;681382 wrote:Are you familiar with the term: tyranny of government ?

    Are you familiar with the team load of BS?
  • Ty Webb
    Fab4Runner;681383 wrote:Having insurance would most certainly help me but that's beside the point. It should be MY CHOICE whether or not I want to buy it. Under this new law it is not my choice. They are forcing me to buy it or will penalize me. Once again, how is taking away someones freedom to choose NOT taking away liberty...and freedom? Whether or not you agree with the bill or not you simply must agree with this point. If you do not you are ignoring the facts and reality.

    I don't have to agree with anything I don't want to....see,that is an example of taking away liberty
  • Fab4Runner
    Ty Webb;681387 wrote:I don't have to agree with anything I don't want to....see,that is an example of taking away liberty

    If you can't agree that taking away someone's freedom to choose whether or not to buy insurance is taking away freedom...well then I don't know what to say. I guess you're saying that taking away someone's freedom to choose is not taking away freedom? How do you rationalize that?
  • Ty Webb
    I do enjoy how NO ONE would answer my question.....

    If you're not intelligent enough to but health insurance on your own,you should be forced to buy it
  • Fab4Runner
    Ty Webb;681379 wrote:You answered your own question....but

    Let me ask you all a question.....

    Would you rather pay say $90 a month or go hundreds of thousands(or perhaps millions) of dollars in debt?

    I would like to have the freedom to choose.


    There I answered for you. And no I'm not kidding.
  • Ty Webb
    No...you didn't answer the question
  • CenterBHSFan
    Ty Webb;681399 wrote:I do enjoy how NO ONE would answer my question.....

    If you're not intelligent enough to but health insurance on your own,you should be forced to buy it
    Not sure if it's your intention or not but you're coming off like government should legislate our intelligence level according to its own arbitrary special interest.
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    Ty Webb;681399 wrote:I do enjoy how NO ONE would answer my question.....

    If you're not intelligent enough to but health insurance on your own,you should be forced to buy it

    What else should we be forced to buy?

    Life insurance?
    Disability insurance?
    A General Motors vehicle?

    The opposition and Constitutional issues brought up is that this is the first time there is a federal mandate that one either purchases an item, or face a penalty simply for existing. Sure, some jurisdictions require a minimum coverage level for auto - but no one has to buy an auto (yet)....one can't help being alive.
  • Fab4Runner
    Ty Webb;681407 wrote:No...you didn't answer the question

    Yes, I did.


    And if someone isn't smart enough to buy warm clothes in the winter should the government force them to? If they aren't smart enough to make healthy food choices should the government force them to? (Oh wait that one is already happening.) If they're too dumb to buy a fuel efficient vehicle does the government need to make them buy one?
  • O-Trap
    Ty Webb;681353 wrote:For those of you who the the HCR Bill and dont have insurance,what happens if you get cancer??
    Then you have to face the consequences of your actions. It's called being responsible and independent.

    What if I somehow find some brilliant business and make millions, and I'm then able to pay in the case that I get cancer, why should I still be obligated to buy?

    Or, what if I simply have reserved myself to living as I wish, and if I get cancer, I'm okay with just dying? Shouldn't I be allowed to?
    Ty Webb;681353 wrote:You'll most likely go straight to an insurance company to get a policy...and they will tell you Sorry but you have a pre-exsisting condition and can't have coverage.
    The result of my own actions. I bear the consequences. That's called "personal responsibility." Few Americans know anything about it, so keep it on the down low.
    Ty Webb;681353 wrote:Wether any of you want to admit it or not....the HCR bill is a great thing and will continue to great things for many years to come
    The HCR Bill is an example of the government telling the population that regardless of what they want to do with their own lives, the government knows best.

    That is the antithesis of freedom.
    dwccrew;681361 wrote:Wouldn't that be my own fault for not having insurance?
    If you could afford it, yes. If you could not (been there), you search like hell for a job that offers it.
    dwccrew;681361 wrote:It is a choice (risk) I would have made. I know the consequences of not having insurance (for the record, I do have health insurance), so why am I being FORCED to obtain it or face penalty. Wake up kid! Just the government forcing its will on the citizens.
    Yep.

    Think of it like this: The next time someone wants you to make a life choice you don't want to make, and you're tempted to think, "Uh, you don't know me, and this is MY life, not yours," remember this conversation, because the HCR Bill is just that: Someone who isn't you, doesn't know you, and hasn't even met you deciding they know more about how you should live your life than you do.
    Ty Webb;681365 wrote:How in the hell is that taking away liberty when it it HELPING people??
    Liberty is synonymous with independence. That's the notion that you are free to make your own choices. Seriously, look up "liberty" in the Dictionary. You won't find anything remotely close to "someone helping you." In fact, it's almost the opposite.
    Ty Webb;681365 wrote:In my mind,taking away liberty is taking away your right to choose to where to live,If you want to have children and how many,to choose where you want to work.
    And what bank you use, and what store at which you shop, what clothes you wear, and what you spend your money on ... like their brand of health insurance.
    dwccrew;681375 wrote:Sure it is, you are forcing someone to purchase a product or service to prevent something catastrophic. How is it different? Please explain.....
    It's not.
    Ty Webb;681379 wrote:Would you rather pay say $90 a month or go hundreds of thousands(or perhaps millions) of dollars in debt?
    Me, personally? $370 a month (what it's costing me) is more preferable.

    For what it's worth, not having health insurance doesn't ensure that you'll be going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. What if you think you'll never have an issue like that, and you end up being right? No peace of mind was covered (since you already thought you'd be fine), and the money was all taken from you by force against your will.
    bonelizzard;681380 wrote:Your kid's future of quality public education could change drastically if SB5 passes.
    I sure hope SOMEthing changes. Our education system should be second to none, given how much money we put into it. Yet our students are the laughing stock of the globe in that sense.
    Ty Webb;681399 wrote:I do enjoy how NO ONE would answer my question.....

    If you're not intelligent enough to but health insurance on your own,you should be forced to buy it
    And I think that if someone is not intelligent enough to buy home/renter's insurance, tornado insurance, earthquake insurance, hurricane insurance, pet insurance (if they have pets), flood insurance, fire insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, any other kind of insurance I may have forgotten, then they should be forced to, right? Do you have all those? You should. If you don't, you will be forced to have them and pay for every single one every month on the off chance you need them. You have no say in the matter. You WILL have them, like it or not.

    Basically, you're not smart enough to realize you need every single one of them, but we're smarter than you, so we're going to live your life for you. Aren't you glad you don't have to make any decisions in life? Glad you have no say in what you do and don't buy? Glad you don't have any say in how you are protected?

    What happens when protecting you ventures into the territory of firearms? What if someone comes into your house with a gun? What will you do then? You will be forced to purchase a government-issued $1,200 gun, as well as $150 worth of ammo. Don't like guns? Tough. You obviously aren't smart enough to realize you need one to protect your home, so we'll make that decision for you and make you buy one.
    CenterBHSFan;681419 wrote:Not sure if it's your intention or not but you're coming off like government should legislate our intelligence level according to its own arbitrary special interest.
    I actually think that's what he believes. I honestly didn't think I'd run into pure, unadulterated socialism like that. I try not to throw around the term "socialism" like a lot of the GOPers do around here (it gets widely abused), but someone who believes that the government should control what you buy and how you protect yourself ... what else would you call that?
  • dwccrew
    Ty Webb;681399 wrote:I do enjoy how NO ONE would answer my question.....

    If you're not intelligent enough to but health insurance on your own,you should be forced to buy it
    So you are for the government taking away personal choice an liberty? Ok, on to the next topic........
    O-Trap;681471 wrote:And I think that if someone is not intelligent enough to buy home/renter's insurance, tornado insurance, earthquake insurance, hurricane insurance, pet insurance (if they have pets), flood insurance, fire insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, any other kind of insurance I may have forgotten, then they should be forced to, right? Do you have all those? You should. If you don't, you will be forced to have them and pay for every single one every month on the off chance you need them. You have no say in the matter. You WILL have them, like it or not.

    Boom
  • I Wear Pants
    We do not need unions as they currently are/used to be with a functioning EPA, OSHA, etc. I believe this to be correct.
  • O-Trap
    They certainly served a purpose, and were vital to protecting the rights of workers at one time.

    However, we are no longer living in that time, and people who run organizations have learned that it actually costs LESS money to retain an employee than to hire and train a new one.

    It seems like some people are afraid of things that, honestly, don't happen anymore. They're afraid that the Union is what stands between them and these problems, but not a single one of them shows up in non-Unionized private sector organizations.

    What DOES show up is competition to be the best at what you do, so laziness and entitlement will force an employer to fire employees, because even though it's more expensive to find, hire, and train another employee, the lack of productivity makes it the better decision.
  • I Wear Pants
    Look at the industries that have massive unionization. Automotive, Steel, Education, Government, etc. What's the common denominator? They're all doing poorly or at least worse than they should.

    Not all their problems are union caused and I'm sure there are some unionized industries doing well. But it's something to note.
  • Gblock
    This bill will weaken education and your children will not recieve the same level of education. I dont think anyone can disagree with that. While some places have board of ed's who will make solid decisions and keep class sizes down and advocate for children. You may even get rid of some poor teachers but overall putting too much power in the hands of local boards will create situations where money/cost will be the deciding factor in their decisions. I know for a a fact the school board in my hometown is not equipped to make the type of decsions that this bill would give them the power to do. this bill would allow schools to go back to 36 kids in a class...you could see schools cut out art, gym and music....while the union protects it s workers it also advocates for your children and holding the district accountable for the quality of your child's education. Do you really want to save money by reducing the quality of your childrens education? You also will see a decline in the number of quality applicants who want to be teachers because it just won't be as attractive of a job. Besides the fact that you could more easily fire poor teachers or it being cheaper how will this bill improve your child's education?