Ohio Chatter DEV

O-Trap

Writerbuckeye;681141 wrote:Yep. It's public record.

Well I certainly disagree with that as well.

Tell me, though. If that was a problem, you'd see it happening in the private sector. However, my employer, a politically driven fundraising company, doesn't seem to care that I affiliate with a political party that takes a LOT of hard-line stances AGAINST the causes for which it raises funds.

It's because, in the end, I do my job, and it's easier (and cheaper) to keep someone who is competent and established into the infrastructure of the company than to try to start from scratch and bring someone new in and train them.

dwccrew

bonelizzard;680673 wrote:hey Dw and sleeper, can't come up with your own reply? Have to steal mine?? Stop accusing public employees and using them as the scapegoat to our hard economic times. Yea, great idea.. Let's set our work force back decades to where we were before. Let's compete with public school systems like in the Carolina's. Ask them how good their public schools are? See what kind of response you get. Let's make the position of teacher in Ohio less attractive than it already is now. Do you really think that our future "students" will be better off with less qualified teachers, making less money teaching them?? Really?

Please elaborate on how I am solely blaming public sector employees. I am not, I am merely stating that they are going to have to feel what the private sector has these last few years. If the tax revenue isn't there to pay the salaries, then the contracts are shit.

Also, please provide some sort of logical reasoning as to why teachers will be less qualified and the quality of education will be less. Hell, many private secotr companies are more efficient with less employees and employees that took pay freezes and pay cuts. Why would it be different with teachers?

Ty Webb

QuakerOats;681099 wrote:When the defenders of liberty and the advocates personal responsibility are chastised, you know the republic is in trouble.

Many of us are sounding the alarm, yet many don't want to hear it.

What exactly makes you a defender of liberty?? Do you serve in the military??

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm chastising you..get real Quaker

bonelizzard

dwccrew;681221 wrote:

Also, please provide some sort of logical reasoning as to why teachers will be less qualified and the quality of education will be less. Hell, many private secotr companies are more efficient with less employees and employees that took pay freezes and pay cuts. Why would it be different with teachers?

Without unions and negotiated contracts school boards can pay teachers whatever they want. What type of degree will teachers have to have to be a base level teacher? associate degree? hs degree? GED? who knows. This isn't the private sector. We're not talking about cars here and how many we can produce in a certain period of time. We're talking about kids. There's no recall here.
Teachers take pay freezes. I've taken a pay freeze. Do you want someone who has a GED degree teaching your kid? Fewer teachers and more kids? Ok, say 50 kids to 1 teacher. That sounds like a great solution. I hope Johnny in the back is listening and paying attention so that 1 teacher can provide him a good education. Don't think that will work. Maybe in the coorporate world.

CenterBHSFan

bonelizzard;681248 wrote:Without unions and negotiated contracts school boards can pay teachers whatever they want. What type of degree will teachers have to have to be a base level teacher? associate degree? hs degree? GED? who knows. /QUOTE]

I didn't know that unions dictated what sort of degree that teachers should have... Oh, they don't?
Well... no worries then, right?

Writerbuckeye

Ty Webb;681229 wrote:What exactly makes you a defender of liberty?? Do you serve in the military??

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm chastising you..get real Quaker

God you can be dense. He can be a defender of liberty simply by decrying things that take liberty away. No military service required -- just someone who wants to be a good citizen.

bonelizzard

CenterBHSFan;681282 wrote:
I didn't know that unions dictated what sort of degree that teachers should have... Oh, they don't?
Well... no worries then, right?

na, no worries. you're right. but I do know that unions make sure teachers have a 1/2hr. for lunch. If lucky. Don't private sector folks usually get an hour? And 20-25 kids in the classroom, not 40. If lucky. depending on where you work. I'm fortuate to work in a great school district with a great union. just to mention a couple small things that unions do for teahers.

Manhattan Buckeye

'Don't private sector folks usually get an hour?"

No, I'm a professional. When my client wants me to be there, I have to be there. If it happens to be during lunch well tough noogies for me - I'll eat my lunch later. If I can't they can hire someone else. It is apparent that your attitude is that you want to be a union person rather than a professional. Fair enough, but don't expect to be treated or compensated like a professional.

bonelizzard

Manhattan Buckeye;681300 wrote: It is apparent that your attitude is that you want to be a union person rather than a professional. Fair enough, but don't expect to be treated or compensated like a professional.

ouch so, union people are not professionals? really.. sounds like you're opening a whole can of worms on that one..
So, if Johnny needs help with his math problem and comes to his teacher during her lunch she won't help him? really.. I bet she does.
But, calling a union person not professional.. Wow, that's a real stab in the back there.. humorous to me.. really..

Manhattan Buckeye

Hell you brought it up, are you a professional or not - if so you can read your own writing:

"but I do know that unions make sure teachers have a 1/2hr. for lunch."

So what is it?

bonelizzard

Manhattan Buckeye;681316 wrote:Hell you brought it up, are you a professional or not - if so you can read your own writing:

"but I do know that unions make sure teachers have a 1/2hr. for lunch."

So what is it?

wow this is a personal onslaught... sounds like you want to fight.. yikes..insulting my intelligence and everything. that's professional.
so what is what? not sure what you mean here but I do know that I sound more professional than you and oh yeah I'm a union member...
don't want to fight.. really..

Ty Webb

Writerbuckeye;681297 wrote:God you can be dense. He can be a defender of liberty simply by decrying things that take liberty away. No military service required -- just someone who wants to be a good citizen.

What about anything on this thread takes any liberty away??

Have you had one liberty or freedom taken away in the last year?? Hell the last 2 years?? No you have not

So am I not a defender of liberty Writer??

Manhattan Buckeye

Fight about what? Have you ever worked a non-education job in your life? If I have to be in Miami tomorrow for work I have to be in Miami - there is no union contract that mandates that I get "1/2 hour for lunch" or anything else. There isn't anything insulting or fighting about it - this is how most of us live. If I sound insulting it is because I'm flabbergasted that someone doesn't understand how the private sector works. If I can't be in Miami, my customer will find someone who will - this is the basis of a competitive capitalistic system. Choices and decisions.

Fab4Runner

Ty Webb;681324 wrote:What about anything on this thread takes any liberty away??

Have you had one liberty or freedom taken away in the last year?? Hell the last 2 years?? No you have not

So am I not a defended of liberty Writer??

Actually, if the new health care law stands it will take away my freedom to choose whether I want insurance or not.

Ty Webb

You're kidding right??

dwccrew

Ty Webb;681229 wrote:What exactly makes you a defender of liberty?? Do you serve in the military??

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm chastising you..get real Quaker

Benjamin Franklin never served in the military, I'd consider him a defender of liberty though.

bonelizzard;681248 wrote:Without unions and negotiated contracts school boards can pay teachers whatever they want.

So? I have a feeling that the boards will still pay teachers fairly, they just won't be guaranteed pay increases if the tax revenue is not there. Boards don't want shitty teachers, they want good teachers and will pay so accordingly.

bonelizzard;681248 wrote: What type of degree will teachers have to have to be a base level teacher? associate degree? hs degree? GED? who knows.

I highly doubt the requirements would change. Where are you even getting that idea? Why would the pre-requisites change? That makes no sense.

bonelizzard;681248 wrote: This isn't the private sector. We're not talking about cars here and how many we can produce in a certain period of time. We're talking about kids. There's no recall here.

Exactly, this isn't the private sector. It is the public sector in which the private sector pays the salary. Therefore, if the money is not there, pay cuts will have to be made. CBAs and unions make this difficult. Also, private sector companies are, for the most part, for-profit companies. The public sector is not, so the "chicken little" sky is falling act about how teachers will be making so little is bullshit.

bonelizzard;681248 wrote: Teachers take pay freezes. I've taken a pay freeze. Do you want someone who has a GED degree teaching your kid? Fewer teachers and more kids? Ok, say 50 kids to 1 teacher. That sounds like a great solution. I hope Johnny in the back is listening and paying attention so that 1 teacher can provide him a good education. Don't think that will work. Maybe in the coorporate world.

Again, who's to say that will happen? You are making an assumption based off what your union has told you. Learn to think for yourself.

bonelizzard;681298 wrote:na, no worries. you're right. but I do know that unions make sure teachers have a 1/2hr. for lunch. If lucky. Don't private sector folks usually get an hour? And 20-25 kids in the classroom, not 40. If lucky. depending on where you work. I'm fortuate to work in a great school district with a great union. just to mention a couple small things that unions do for teahers.

I work in the private sector and I only get a 1/2 hour unpaid lunch. Looks like I better have someone negotiate something better for me. Bomelizzard has proven himself/herself to be no one other than Isadore. Trolling the politics forum under a different username.

Ty Webb;681324 wrote:What about anything on this thread takes any liberty away??

Have you had one liberty or freedom taken away in the last year?? Hell the last 2 years?? No you have not

So am I not a defended of liberty Writer??

We have had liberties taken away in the last 2 years. You remember that healthcare reform act that FORCES people to have health insurance or face a penalty. Doesn't sound like liberty to me.

Writerbuckeye

Fab4Runner;681333 wrote:Actually, if the new health care law stands it will take away my freedom to choose whether I want insurance or not.

Yep. And you support it, Ty. So if you're truly a defender of liberty, you can't be in favor of a bill that FORCES you to buy something.

See how that works?

bonelizzard

Manhattan Buckeye;681328 wrote:Fight about what? Have you ever worked a non-education job in your life? If I have to be in Miami tomorrow for work I have to be in Miami - there is no union contract that mandates that I get "1/2 hour for lunch" or anything else. There isn't anything insulting or fighting about it - this is how most of us live. If I sound insulting it is because I'm flabbergasted that someone doesn't understand how the private sector works. If I can't be in Miami, my customer will find someone who will - this is the basis of a competitive capitalistic system. Choices and decisions.

just sounded to be a personal onslaught.. you calling me unprofessional.. that's all. I feel I'm very much a professional. Yes, union members can be professionals. Guess I quite didn't understand what you meant. No, I chose education as my PROFESSION because I love kids and the future. After all the kids are our future, right? You do what you do in your line of work because you chose to do that. Period. That's your choice and mine as well. So, don't call me unprofessional for being a union member. If you have kids and they attend a public school, I'm sure you would want a professional who is teaching YOUR kid every day. Union member or not..

sleeper

bonelizzard;681321 wrote:wow this is a personal onslaught... sounds like you want to fight.. yikes..insulting my intelligence and everything. that's professional.
so what is what? not sure what you mean here but I do know that I sound more professional than you and oh yeah I'm a union member...
don't want to fight.. really..

After reading your posts, I'm 100% sure you're one of the teachers that would lose their job for being an incompetent POS. You can't even type complete sentences or use capitalization.

Ty Webb

[QUOTE=dwccrew;681340
We have had liberties taken away in the last 2 years. You remember that healthcare reform act that FORCES people to have health insurance or face a penalty. Doesn't sound like liberty to me.[/QUOTE]

Again...you're kidding right??

For those of you who the the HCR Bill and dont have insurance,what happens if you get cancer??

You'll most likely go straight to an insurance company to get a policy...and they will tell you Sorry but you have a pre-exsisting condition and can't have coverage.

Wether any of you want to admit it or not....the HCR bill is a great thing and will continue to great things for many years to come

dwccrew

bonelizzard;681346 wrote:just sounded to be a personal onslaught.. you calling me unprofessional.. that's all. I feel I'm very much a professional. Yes, union members can be professionals. Guess I quite didn't understand what you meant. No, I chose education as my PROFESSION because I love kids and the future. After all the kids are our future, right? You do what you do in your line of work because you chose to do that. Period. That's your choice and mine as well. So, don't call me unprofessional for being a union member. If you have kids and they attend a public school, I'm sure you would want a professional who is teaching YOUR kid every day. Union member or not..

Now I know you are Isadore. MB never called you unprofessional. Only Isadore makes comments like this. HAHAHAHAHAHA

sleeper

Ty Webb;681353 wrote:Again...you're kidding right??

For those of you who the the HCR Bill and dont have insurance,what happens if you get cancer??

You'll most likely go straight to an insurance company to get a policy...and they will tell you Sorry but you have a pre-exsisting condition and can't have coverage.

Wether any of you want to admit it or not....the HCR bill is a great thing and will continue to great things for many years to come

I don't think either of them are kidding. By forcing people to have healthcare, you are taking away liberty. This isn't something to argue, that is the facts.

And no, I am not kidding.

dwccrew

Ty Webb;681353 wrote:Again...you're kidding right??

For those of you who the the HCR Bill and dont have insurance,what happens if you get cancer??

You'll most likely go straight to an insurance company to get a policy...and they will tell you Sorry but you have a pre-exsisting condition and can't have coverage.

Wether any of you want to admit it or not....the HCR bill is a great thing and will continue to great things for many years to come

Wouldn't that be my own fault for not having insurance? It is a choice (risk) I would have made. I know the consequences of not having insurance (for the record, I do have health insurance), so why am I being FORCED to obtain it or face penalty. Wake up kid! Just the government forcing its will on the citizens.

Fab4Runner

Ty Webb;681338 wrote:You're kidding right??

Why on Earth would you think I'm kidding? The government FORCING me to purchase health insurance or fining me for not doing so is most definitely taking away my liberty and freedom. How can you claim it is not? It is the very definition of it. This is not a matter of opinion. This is a fact.

Ty Webb

How in the hell is that taking away liberty when it it HELPING people??

In my mind,taking away liberty is taking away your right to choose to where to live,If you want to have children and how many,to choose where you want to work.

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