Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

• coach_bob1

  Manhattan Buckeye;680942 wrote:What money did they set aside?

  
  Last time I checked, part of the money my wife earns goes into her PERS account. That is money that she has earned and set aside for the future. And she is a state employee whose agency is funded by the SSA, so the state has no claim on any of her pension funds.
• QuakerOats

  coach_bob1;680902 wrote: I'm sure that the people at Borders are upset, but that is the fault of corporate management and is not a result of collective bargaining.

  
  Not necessarily true, AT ALL, but typical of those with union-sympathetic mindsets. Borders is facing difficulty because of changes in paradigms: the way people buy books (from Amazon) has radically altered the landscape, so either they change their model (via and during a CH11 filing/restructuring) or they go out of business. Their management cannot necessarily be faulted for Amazon becoming the preferred delivery method for books, but they do need to figure out a way to react to that new reality and change accordingly.
  
  This is exactly what is happening in other parts of society, such as what we are talking about now with respect to the most efficient way to deliver goods/services to taxpayers. There are new realities and adapting to them WILL occur, unfortunately the unions will stand in the way because they stand to lose millions because they will not change.
  
  The union is an arcane relic, a middleman that is no longer needed, a leach on society, an obstacle to efficiency and accountability. It is long past time to move beyond this costly model.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  coach_bob1;680733 wrote:It's good to know that you hope for the passage of a bill that does ill will on my family. My wife is one of the state employees affected by this bill. She is not part of the union, but does pay what is known as "fair share". Her job does not exist in the private sector and her job is not funded by state taxes. If this bill passes, our healthcare costs would quadruple while my wife would receive a 20% paycut and lose sick time and vacation time and her pension. My wife has been at her job for 10 years and still makes less than I do (I am a server, so I don't make that much.) Those of you who think this is a black and white issue about unions are forgetting the people that will be affected.

  
  I need clarification here. How can a state employee's job not be paid via taxes? And what is this job classification that doesn't exist in the real world and only in the halls of government?
• coach_bob1

  Quaker,
  
  One of the factors for Borders lack of sales was an inability to develop an e-reader until 4 years after Amazon had released Kindle. This is due to a lack of research by Borders an an inability to adapt to market trends, both of which are the responsibility of management.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  coach_bob1;680953 wrote:Last time I checked, part of the money my wife earns goes into her PERS account. That is money that she has earned and set aside for the future. And she is a state employee whose agency is funded by the SSA, so the state has no claim on any of her pension funds.

  
  And she isn't setting aside near enough to pay out 40 years of pension. It is underfunded. Again, this isn't political, it is fact. Defined benefit programs simply haven't been funded properly, which is why most private sector programs switched to defined contribution, where all of it is set aside. There's nothing wrong with your wife wanting to get what was promised to her, but this country can and will economically fail with all of these unfunded promises. We're in an economic clusterf--k right now, and we're just pushing the burden down towards future generations.
• coach_bob1

  Writerbuckeye,
  
  My wife makes decisions regarding Social Security Disability. It is a field that solely falls under the government (there is no private equivalent) and is fully funded by the Social Security Administration (not by state taxes) but it is considered a state agency.
• queencitybuckeye

  coach_bob1;680890 wrote:Elimination of collective bargaining allows public employees to be hired or fired at will. It makes essentially every position an appointed position that can be lost when there is an administration change.

  
  Before setting out on my own, I worked for a company for 19 years and had eight different managers over that time. Every time there was a change, there was the risk that they would go in a different direction and I would go to the unemployment line. How is your situation different, and why should it be?
• Bigdogg

  Manhattan Buckeye;680892 wrote:You mean how like the rest of us work? How do you think the folks at Borders that are going to lose their jobs with their restructuring feel about their situation?

  
  No, not at all. If it were the same then you would be subject to losing your job just because your boss's political party changed.
• QuakerOats

  coach_bob1;680970 wrote:Quaker,
  
  One of the factors for Borders lack of sales was an inability to develop an e-reader until 4 years after Amazon had released Kindle. This is due to a lack of research by Borders an an inability to adapt to market trends, both of which are the responsibility of management.

  Sometimes there are no funds for R&D, or marketing, or re-investment etc....etc... depending on a multitude of other factors ,,,,, such as wage/benefit promises.
  
  Once most people look at reality ---- that just about everywhere unions have been involved in an entity, corporation, organization or government - the result has been carnage, disaster, bankruptcy, failure ----- with the common theme among all of them being unionization, which severely crimps management's ability to deal most issues in a quick and effective fashion.
  
  Wanna why no one will invest in Ohio ---- it is not just high taxes, costly workers comp, out-of-control plaintiff's lawyers, but mainly the threat of potential unionization, and the disasters that await resulting therefrom. THAT IS A FACT.
• Bigdogg

  QuakerOats;680987 wrote:Sometimes there are no funds for R&D, or marketing, or re-investment etc....etc... depending on a multitude of other factors ,,,,, such as wage/benefit promises.
  
  Once most people look at reality ---- that just about everywhere unions have been involved in an entity, corporation, organization or government - the result has been carnage, disaster, bankruptcy, failure ----- with the common theme among all of them being unionization, which severely crimps management's ability to deal most issues in a quick and effective fashion.
  
  Wanna why no one will invest in Ohio ---- it is not just high taxes, costly workers comp, out-of-control plaintiff's lawyers, but mainly the threat of potential unionization, and the disasters that await resulting therefrom. THAT IS A FACT.

  
  A fact according to you? Provide supporting documentation.
• Ty Webb

  

  Bigdogg;681009 wrote:A fact according to you? Provide supporting documentation.

  
  Now Dog....you know that Quaker won't/doesn't like to do that
  
  He simply likes to rail againist and everything President Obama/Democratic
• sleeper

  

  Bigdogg;681009 wrote:A fact according to you? Provide supporting documentation.

  
  I find it hilarious that documentation is always asked for which their is no rational rebuttal. I'd like to see documentation about all your posts please, otherwise your entire argument is invalid.
  
  In short, I agree with Quaker because he is 100% right, although he's probably underestimating the high taxes portion.
• Bigdogg

  Ty Webb;681025 wrote:Now Dog....you know that Quaker won't/doesn't like to do that
  
  He simply likes to rail againist and everything President Obama/Democratic

  
  Yes I know. I would not put it past the Republican party to be employing some of the people that post on this board their outrageous propaganda. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. Both parties are a sham at this point in our history.
• QuakerOats

  Bigdogg;681009 wrote:A fact according to you? Provide supporting documentation.

  
  When you see tens of billions in private investment coming into Ohio, then I will know either I am wrong, or unions no longer exist.
  
  It may not be what you want to hear, but capital always flows to where it is treated best, and that happens to also be A FACT.
• Bigdogg

  sleeper;681087 wrote:I find it hilarious that documentation is always asked for which their is no rational rebuttal. I'd like to see documentation about all your posts please, otherwise your entire argument is invalid.
  
  In short, I agree with Quaker because he is 100% right, although he's probably underestimating the high taxes portion.

  
  Which ones you want? I'll gladly back them up.
• sleeper

  

  Bigdogg;681091 wrote:Yes I know. I would not put it past the Republican party to be employing some of the people that post on this board their outrageous propaganda. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. Both parties are a sham at this point in our history.

  Which ones you want? I gladly back them up.

  You can start with this one.
• QuakerOats

  Ty Webb;681025 wrote:Now Dog....you know that Quaker won't/doesn't like to do that
  
  He simply likes to rail againist and everything President Obama/Democratic

  When the defenders of liberty and the advocates personal responsibility are chastised, you know the republic is in trouble.
  
  Many of us are sounding the alarm, yet many don't want to hear it.
• wkfan

  Bigdogg;681091 wrote:Yes I know. I would not put it past the Republican party to be employing some of the people that post on this board their outrageous propaganda. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. Both parties are a sham at this point in our history.

  Better adjust your little tin foil hat...you might see a little clearer that way.
• Bigdogg

  sleeper;681098 wrote:You can start with this one.

  
  Easy one. Jon Keeling was paid $11,000 in campaign consultant fees by the Ohio Republican Party while claiming to be nothing more than a political blogger. Now it's your turn. Also, since LJ has not reminded many of you, I will take the liberty of posting his so called rules again.
  
  http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/01/31/exclusive-jon-keeling-was-a-paid-11000-in-campaign-consultant-fees-by-the-ohio-republican-party-while-claiming-to-be-nothing-more-than-a-political-blogger/
  
  Politics Forum Rules
  
  1. No personal attacks (including name calling) on other posters.
  2. If you are starting a topic about a news item you must include the link, as well as your own opinion on the issue at hand.
  3. If you make a claim that a study supports your view, you must link to the study.
  4. Please do not make vague 1 line threads. They not be approved and/or deleted.
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• O-Trap

  

  Bigdogg;680981 wrote:No, not at all. If it were the same then you would be subject to losing your job just because your boss's political party changed.

  
  Technically, private employees are no less exposed to this.
  
  However, why would an employer know your political party?
• Bigdogg

  O-Trap;681129 wrote:Technically, private employees are no less exposed to this.
  
  However, why would an employer know your political party?

  
  Do you know the party of the people you work closely with? You can get a list at the board of election office.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL So an industrious individual goes out, forms his own company, and then blogs about politics while getting some funding from the Kasich folks.
  
  Wow, is that AWFUL or what?
  
  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
  
  You folks need to find something real to worry about.
  
  As for the charges of "astroturfing"...whether true or not, it isn't like both sides do a hell of a lot of this type of politicking, now is it?
  
  Oh and for the record: Not ALL employees of any agency are replaced during changes of administrations, only those who are unclassified employees. Classified workers are exempted from political changeovers, and they make up the VAST majority of state workers.
  
  I have seen nothing in this current legislation that changes that. All it will do is stop the unnecessary protections accorded the union contract which do little more than make it impossible to replace employees, even if they are guilty of gross incompetence.
• O-Trap

  

  Bigdogg;681130 wrote:Do you know the party of the people you work closely with? You can get a list at the board of election office.

  
  I don't, no.
  
  I can get a list of the people I work with, and their political affiliations at the BoE?
• Writerbuckeye

  

  O-Trap;681138 wrote:I don't, no.
  
  I can get a list of the people I work with, and their political affiliations at the BoE?

  
  Yep. It's public record.
• sleeper

  

  Bigdogg;681110 wrote:Easy one. Jon Keeling was paid $11,000 in campaign consultant fees by the Ohio Republican Party while claiming to be nothing more than a political blogger. Now it's your turn. Also, since LJ has not reminded many of you, I will take the liberty of posting his so called rules again.
  
  http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/01/31/exclusive-jon-keeling-was-a-paid-11000-in-campaign-consultant-fees-by-the-ohio-republican-party-while-claiming-to-be-nothing-more-than-a-political-blogger/
  
  Politics Forum Rules
  
  1. No personal attacks (including name calling) on other posters.
  2. If you are starting a topic about a news item you must include the link, as well as your own opinion on the issue at hand.
  3. If you make a claim that a study supports your view, you must link to the study.
  4. Please do not make vague 1 line threads. They not be approved and/or deleted.
  5. All new threads must be approved by moderator before they appear in the forum. Please only submit threads once.

  I was under the assumption you had evidence that some of the posters on here are being paid by the republican party.
  
  Also, you only have to provide a link if you claim a study, I don't think Quaker claimed a study, but he did post something that should be fairly common knowledge among anyone with half a brain.