Disgusted With Obama Administration.
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QuakerOats
What a complete disgrace! Is there anything this prez has not [EMAIL="fu@#$%ed"]fu@#$%ed[/EMAIL] up??!! -
believer
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BGFalcons82
Representative Allen West responds to the latest Obama apology for book burning - http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104707&article=9819067
The take-home:
It's not the first time Obama lept to conclusions before researching the facts (a certain "racist" white cop that arrested a black man that led to the infamous "beer summit" comes to mind).[LEFT][INDENT]I want to extend my sincere condolences to the families of the Army Colonel and Major who were killed by Afghanistan security forces over this “burning Koran” episode.
If we had resolute leadership in the White House, we would have explained that these Islamic terrorist enemy combatants detained at the Parwan facility used the Koran to write jihadist messages to pass to others.
In doing so, they violated their own cultural practice and defiled the Koran and turned the Koran into contraband.
The Islamic cultural practice and Parwan detention facility procedures support burning the “contraband.”
Instead here we go again, offering apology after apology and promising to “hold those responsible accountable.” Responsible for what?
When tolerance becomes a one-way street it leads to cultural suicide.
This time it immediately led to the deaths of two American Warriors.
America is awaiting the apology from President Hamid Karzai.
[/INDENT]
Read more: http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104707&article=9819067#ixzz1nmKxmDMD[/LEFT] -
believer
Obama only needs what the MSM tells him are the facts.BGFalcons82;1100123 wrote:It's not the first time Obama lept to conclusions before researching the facts (a certain "racist" white cop that arrested a black man that led to the infamous "beer summit" comes to mind). -
believer
The MSM tells Obama what the facts are.BGFalcons82;1100123 wrote:It's not the first time Obama lept to conclusions before researching the facts (a certain "racist" white cop that arrested a black man that led to the infamous "beer summit" comes to mind). -
BlackSmith
OOOPS, I just farted.....................Hold on I'm calling Barry to have him apologise for the country -
QuakerOatsToday's real headlines:
Bernanke warns lawmakers nation headed for 'massive fiscal cliff'...
China holdings of US debt at $1.15 trillion...
Ron Paul: Fed's 'going to self-destruct'... [HR][/HR]Greek unions walk out, parliament cuts health costs...
Change we can believe in .... -
gut
No worries. Obama, Pelosi and Reid (a.ka. "The Axis of Economic Ignorance") are constructing a massive safety net to catch all of us after we go over the cliff.QuakerOats;1101904 wrote:Today's real headlines:
Bernanke warns lawmakers nation headed for 'massive fiscal cliff'...
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gut
Looking at the holdings of US debt, I might be tempted to call a lot of the alarmists chicken-littles.QuakerOats;1101904 wrote:Today's real headlines:
China holdings of US debt at $1.15 trillion...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/15/us-debt-how-big-who-owns
Of the $14T+ in a debt, only a little over $4T is owned by foreigners, but even that includes a good chunk of non-govt entities. China and Japan have a little more than a combined $2T of the debt. But the symbiotic relationship is rarely acknowledged here: China and Japan both intervene in the currency markets to keep their exports more price competitive in the US. That mean as the US demands more and more goods from them, the dollar sells off (weakens) relative to their currencies. So if they were to sell those dollars or trade for another currency, it only compounds the effect. So instead they buy US treasuries to get interest, and the effect is reducing the supply of dollars to counteract the sell off. Note this is a separate issue/argument from the impact of the USD ceasing to be the global reserve currency, which is what people are usually talking about. Reality is China & Japan can't just stop buying US treasuries or turn-off the spigot because they would severely damage their own economy/trade in the process.
There are a lot of different impacts here...I know a couple of the usual suspects are going to jump in here and cry "unfair trade! punish them!". But reality is if the US govt would cease running deficits, then China and Japan have nowhere to go with those dollars. Then one of two things happens: Those dollars come back to the US in the form of investment in our markets and economy (as opposed to the US govt), or their currencies appreciate relative to the dollar making American goods make globally competitive, and the JOBS that go with that.
So the bulk @ $10T of the US debt is actually held by US citizens and mutual funds/pensions (not sure, but the Social Security trust is probably the largest). This is why I've said default represents a massive looming tax on all Americans. So the 99% (or 47%) who want or think they are getting something for free and that the deficit and potential default will hit corporations and the wealthy are rather ignorant. If the US should default, we all get whacked hard on the job/economic front, but even harder on our pensions/SS and savings. I may not have a lot, but that doesn't mean I could stomach lopping a 0 off my accumulated wealth. -
wkfan
...and probably already printing money like crazy to pay for it.gut;1101976 wrote:No worries. Obama, Pelosi and Reid (a.ka. "The Axis of Economic Ignorance") are constructing a massive safety net to catch all of us after we go over the cliff. -
BGFalcons82
Now, the U.S. ambassador, Crocker, is all for punishing the American Koran-burners through military tribunals - http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-ambassador-doesnt-rule-out-proceedings-against-us-troops-who-burned-qurans
He's not calling for the capture of the Afghan's murdering our soldiers....nooooooooo....those that burned books in order to stop prisoners from communicating are the evil rotten scum that must be strung-up. Unfuckingbelieveable. -
believer
What's not to believe? You're seeing change that we can believe in. Get it right.BGFalcons82;1102106 wrote:Unfuckingbelieveable. -
QuakerOatsGet the pu$$ies out of the White House.
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pmoney25
I do think the apologies are ridiculous. Of course our troops wouldnt be getting killed if we werent wasting time over there but thats another story. -
ptown_trojans_1
On Afghanistan, just read the COIN manual and doctrine and you understand why the U.S. and NATO apologized.
The support of the local population is crucial, and support for the local government even more so.
The U.S. had to make the move, otherwise, shit really hits the fan.
The key to Afghanistan is the warlords, the local chiefs. If the U.S. alienates them, by wreckless things like burning a copy of the Qur'an, then the war is lost. Saying the President should not have apologized fails to understand the very concept of how the war is being fought. It is easy to say the President should have stood up and demanded Karzai apologized, but it is not that easy.
The U.S. cannot force Karzai into anything really. Without him, the war falls apart, but with him, he fails to control the warlords and has little support.
Karzai should make a gesture and statement regarding the U.S. and NATO allies lost. But, I doubt he will.
As to the villains that killed the Americans, the Afghans and Americans are working together to find the bastards. When they are caught, they will be thrown in jail for murder.
Afghanistan is a complex mess that involves many ethnic tribes, radicals, straight mobs and warlords, and Pakistan. The U.S. is currently doing better than it has over the past few years, but still has a long way to go.
Bottom line, if the U.S. did not apologize, things would be much worse, much, much worse. -
pmoney25
I know why he made the apology. My reasoning for thinking it is ridiculous is because people in Afghanistan and the Middle East have to know that the apologies are for show and that we do not really mean it. No amount of apologies or bombs dropped are going to make that region of the world accept us. We should just pack up and tell Karzai that we apologize for the mess we left behind and good luck with that cluster fuck of a country.ptown_trojans_1;1102605 wrote:On Afghanistan, just read the COIN manual and doctrine and you understand why the U.S. and NATO apologized.
The support of the local population is crucial, and support for the local government even more so.
The U.S. had to make the move, otherwise, **** really hits the fan.
The key to Afghanistan is the warlords, the local chiefs. If the U.S. alienates them, by wreckless things like burning a copy of the Qur'an, then the war is lost. Saying the President should not have apologized fails to understand the very concept of how the war is being fought. It is easy to say the President should have stood up and demanded Karzai apologized, but it is not that easy.
The U.S. cannot force Karzai into anything really. Without him, the war falls apart, but with him, he fails to control the warlords and has little support.
Karzai should make a gesture and statement regarding the U.S. and NATO allies lost. But, I doubt he will.
As to the villains that killed the Americans, the Afghans and Americans are working together to find the bastards. When they are caught, they will be thrown in jail for murder.
Afghanistan is a complex mess that involves many ethnic tribes, radicals, straight mobs and warlords, and Pakistan. The U.S. is currently doing better than it has over the past few years, but still has a long way to go.
Bottom line, if the U.S. did not apologize, things would be much worse, much, much worse. -
ptown_trojans_1
I wish it were that easy.pmoney25;1102611 wrote:I know why he made the apology. My reasoning for thinking it is ridiculous is because people in Afghanistan and the Middle East have to know that the apologies are for show and that we do not really mean it. No amount of apologies or bombs dropped are going to make that region of the world accept us. We should just pack up and tell Karzai that we apologize for the mess we left behind and good luck with that cluster **** of a country.
But, if the U.S. leaves, what happens to Pakistan? Does a fragile Afghanistan lead to a more fragile Pakistan? What will that do with India? Will India be more adapt to act, how will that play out geopolitically, with the two nuclear powers?
The U.S. can't just leave, too much at stake. -
majorspark
Ambassador Crocker really needs to show the Afghan people just how sincere the American people are. A personal apology face to face with the Afghan People. Get out there on the streets of Kabul and let them know these scumbags will be brought to justice. Problem solved. -
majorspark
I recall a few years back some Bibles were burned at the same military base, with a lot less turmoil.
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pmoney25
I agree that the region is very unstable. My concern is whether our prescense there actually helps decreases that. When will it ever stabilize? After thousands of years, not much has really changed. You cannot force freedom or force beliefs on people. It never works. There has to be an internal movement that yearns for freedom and for a better life.ptown_trojans_1;1102613 wrote:I wish it were that easy.
But, if the U.S. leaves, what happens to Pakistan? Does a fragile Afghanistan lead to a more fragile Pakistan? What will that do with India? Will India be more adapt to act, how will that play out geopolitically, with the two nuclear powers?
The U.S. can't just leave, too much at stake.
One other thing, totally off topic. I will say this about Obama. I do not really agree with anything Obama says or has done and I really really hope that someone beats him in November(Hopefully Dr Paul.) However, the over sensationlism on Obama has become a bit ridiculous. Does he lean towards socialist views? yes. But the way some of you talk on here make it sound like he is more in line with Stalin level Communism.
So while Obama's policies are terrible and his vision for the country is terrible, I do not believe he is a secret Muslim who is hellbent on destroying America. I just believe he is a overwhelmed and under qualified politician whose philosophy on how to restore this country is wrong. -
Con_AlmaLawmaker wants answers after cost estimate for health insurance aid rises by $111B Published March 02, 2012
Associated Press
WASHINGTON – Cost estimates for a key part of President Obama's health care overhaul law have ballooned by $111 billion from last year's budget, and a senior Republican lawmaker on Friday demanded an explanation.
House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp, R-Mich., wants to know by Monday why the estimated ten-year cost of helping millions of middle-class Americans buy health insurance has jumped by about 30 percent. -
Footwedge
I was able to follow this until the bolded part. I have yet to read anywhere whereby "we are doing better" and have something substantiating that claim.ptown_trojans_1;1102605 wrote:On Afghanistan, just read the COIN manual and doctrine and you understand why the U.S. and NATO apologized.
The support of the local population is crucial, and support for the local government even more so.
The U.S. had to make the move, otherwise, **** really hits the fan.
The key to Afghanistan is the warlords, the local chiefs. If the U.S. alienates them, by wreckless things like burning a copy of the Qur'an, then the war is lost. Saying the President should not have apologized fails to understand the very concept of how the war is being fought. It is easy to say the President should have stood up and demanded Karzai apologized, but it is not that easy.
The U.S. cannot force Karzai into anything really. Without him, the war falls apart, but with him, he fails to control the warlords and has little support.
Karzai should make a gesture and statement regarding the U.S. and NATO allies lost. But, I doubt he will.
As to the villains that killed the Americans, the Afghans and Americans are working together to find the bastards. When they are caught, they will be thrown in jail for murder.
Afghanistan is a complex mess that involves many ethnic tribes, radicals, straight mobs and warlords, and Pakistan. The U.S. is currently doing better than it has over the past few years, but still has a long way to go.
Bottom line, if the U.S. did not apologize, things would be much worse, much, much worse.
For eleven years we have heard the same thing. What has changed? Nothing has changed. And nothing will change. When Russia went bankrupt, in part because of their Afgan occupation, they went home and Afghanistan did what Afghanistan does. They are who they are and if they want to change, then only they can change. If they want to remain the same, then wish them well and GTFO.
I don't see China nor Japan investing in global police work. Yet, each of those 2 countries apparently had a trillion dollars plus laying around which they lent to the global empirists. Is there not a problem with this equation?
Moreover, why can't the MIC tell us what the mission truly is over there? The end game if you will. Please define victory...or at least spell out to the American people exactly what progress has/is being made. The truth is...there has been no progress made. None. COIN..or no COIN.
We are witnessing the inevitable occur in Iraq now. We brought home most of our troops and violence has sky-rocketed. Had we left Iraq in 03...or 23...violence would have skyrocketed. The same holds true in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Whereveristan.
Yet, the most easily understood position and by far and away the most logical solution of withdrawal is espoused by only one presidential candidate...encompassing both parties. Yet, this sole standing candidate is continually labeled a foreign policy wacko....particularly by the media...which is owned by the likes of GE....one of the largest benefactors of endless wars.
My only logical conclusion is that the MIC cash cow will never let go of their vice grip hold on the Pentagon and Capitol Hill. The moral hazzard of such foreign policy is the continuing growing hatred for our once great country....and not only by the Middle Eastern bloc. Putin's Russia and even China are now picking sides...and it ain't our side. The bullseye on America and Americans continues to grow...and will never cease, until Ike's warning is finally heeded, and a permanent stop is imposed on the madness. -
HitsRus
One of the things that the Bush Administration did in the aftermath of 9/11 was to analyze the causes of why we were attacked, and they came to the conclusion that failed nation states (like Afghanistan) were breeding grounds for terrorism and that it was a matter of our own national security, and that the immediate need was that these pockets not be allowed to fester. Moreover, they identified that the reason that we were 'hated' was that we had traded 'our principles of freedom and human rights' for stability by supporting authoritarian, repressive regimes. The Bush administration began tying foreign aid to improvements in freedom and human rights...and that has led to the recent 'Arab Spring'....they did that knowing full well that once loosed, the results might not be initially in our favor, but that with persistence and dedication to our core values we would prevail. George Bush never said it would be quick and easy...in fact he warned us that it would be long and drawn out.No amount of apologies or bombs dropped are going to make that region of the world accept us. We should just pack up and tell Karzai that we apologize for the mess we left behind and good luck with that cluster **** of a country.
Freedom loving peoples really do depend on America(see Eastern Europe)...and it is naive to think that withdrawing to fortressed borders is in our long term best interest.
It is easy to look at Iraq and criticize the results (which might be the results of poor administration rather than policy failure). But lost in this hindsight is the fact that Sadaam Hussien was a repressive dictator that had used WMD on his own people, had attacked his neighbors, and was continuing to defy the Gulf treaties, and stonewalling IAEA weapons inspectors. He was getting bolder and bolder. It is difficult to imagine what the world might look like had we not acted when we did. Imagine a nuclear arms race today between Iraq and Iran...with Israel in the middle. UGH. -
gut
I more or less agree with most of what you wrote. One argument is that US actions in the Mid East have spurred North Korea and Iran to become more defensive. Another interpretation could be they were already heading this direction before Iraq and Afghanistan (don't think that's debateable) and perhaps have been less aggressive as a result of the US showing it won't be handcuffed by UN bickering. I think there are strong arguments on both sides.HitsRus;1103572 wrote:Imagine a nuclear arms race today between Iraq and Iran...with Israel in the middle. UGH.
It was a new, if not ugly, approach to a long-standing problem. I'd agree the Bush policies have played a large role in the Arab Spring, even if perhaps not the driving force. Ultimately the people WANTING and achieving democracy in the Middle East will be far more effective and productive than the decades of politics & treaties that mostly resulted in far more self-congratulatory emptiness than progress. It will be another 20+ years before we can objectively begin to evaluate Bush's legacy, at least with regard to this matter. -
believer
Agreed.gut;1103603 wrote:It will be another 20+ years before we can objectively begin to evaluate Bush's legacy, at least with regard to this matter.
Frankly Bush policies have only stirred the pot of pre-existing political/religious conditions in the region. Radical Islam, Arab disdain for Israel (because the Jews are not Muslim of course), centuries of Arab-on-Arab rivalries, western over-dependence upon relatively cheap oil from the region, oppressive Arab dictatorships, etc. etc. have all combined to create a volatile political quagmire.
If anything Bush policies have at least forced the issue....for good or bad.