students not standing for the pledge, what say you?

• Strapping Young Lad

  

  BCS, don't you know the constitution only applies when it's convenient for conservative America????
• BRF

  

  You are not the exception to the rule, CenterBHSFan.
  
  As we have seen on this thread, the Liberal take is to hammer away on their point until you give in and go along with it (aka Nazi-ism).
  
  I made my opinions on here about how I feel.......and I didn't do it to change anyone's mind. However, you have seen on here how that is not the case with the other side. They want to change your mind about how you think about this situation, because they think they are right. And don't quote me about how the law says you are right........we all know that. However, Conservatives have freedom of speech, too.
  
  
  
  p.s. - I don't understand how having a kid not be present in the classroom or auditorium for the Pledge is punishment. Like has been stated before, they don't want to participate, so don't participate. Oh......wait a minute.......I see.........that would be taking away their right to protest.....ah, yes. Pardon, moi!
  
  Thanks for all the banter on this as we will have a little discussion about it in the classroom tomorrow. I will ask my kids what they think about, for example, having the kid who doesn't want to say the Pledge just wait in the hall till it's over. And don't worry, Liberals, everybody gets their say in my classroom.
  
  I'm sure I'll be back with more later.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  CenterBHSFan wrote: I guess many of you would like to call my parents Nazi's because of how they raised me and that they were conservative democrats. That is a false notion and a distored perspective on things.
  

  Once again....it's your freedom and your parents freedom to raise you as they wish. Just as it's someone else's business if they don't wish to recite the Pledge...
  
  I would be just as pissd if someone was trying to stop you from saying the Pledge....
  
  Get it????
  
  I think I can speak for a few of us when I say it's not facist to have your beliefs, including being patriotic and loving your country. It's facist to force people to be patriotic, against their will....
  
  Is it that hard to understand??? I'd call you aNazi if you were trying to stop people from saying the Pledge, too. It goes both ways.....
• BRF

  

  You must be Swiss.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  BRF wrote: You are not the exception to the rule, CenterBHSFan.
  
  As we have seen on this thread, the Liberal take is to hammer away on their point until you give in and go along with it (aka Nazi-ism).
  
  I made my opinions on here about how I feel.......and I didn't do it to change anyone's mind. However, you have seen on here how that is not the case with the other side. They want to change your mind about how you think about this situation, because they think they are right. And don't quote me about how the law says you are right........we all know that. However, Conservatives have freedom of speech, too.
  
  
  
  p.s. - I don't understand how having a kid not be present in the classroom or auditorium for the Pledge is punishment. Like has been stated before, they don't want to participate, so don't participate. Oh......wait a minute.......I see.........that would be taking away their right to protest.....ah, yes. Pardon, moi!
  
  Thanks for all the banter on this as we will have a little discussion about it in the classroom tomorrow. I will ask my kids what they think about, for example, having the kid who doesn't want to say the Pledge just wait in the hall till it's over. And don't worry, Liberals, everybody gets their say in my classroom.
  
  I'm sure I'll be back with more later.

  I knew you'd use my idea...let me know if you need anymore help on how to run your classroom.
• BRF

  

  I knew you'd use my idea...let me know if you need anymore help on how to run your classroom.

  Ah, but it wasn't your idea. That's how I run it, everybody gets their say. But if it makes you feel better, you had something to do with tomorrow's discussion!
• HitsRus

  

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: BCS, don't you know the constitution only applies when it's convenient for conservative America????

  uh,,,yeah.
  
  Just remember that when some old white guy makes some politically incorrect comment....you won't demand that he be fired or singled out or punished in any way.
  
  That's the problem with 'liberal America'...it wants it both ways.
• dwccrew

  

  You have to love the United States. It's a country in which its citizens can argue over the most mundane/unimportant issues and continue to argue it forever.
  
  This thread reminds me of 'Another Brick in the Wall' by the greatest band ever, Pink Floyd.
  
  "We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control." Those words are so true after reading some of the posts on this thread. Why let children be independent thinkers?
• Upper90

  I honestly just don't get why it matters so much (to others.) I'm going to stand.
  
  If you don't stand....that's cool. As long as you're not being disruptive, etc....I could care less what you do.
• dwccrew

  

  Upper90 wrote: I honestly just don't get why it matters so much (to others.) I'm going to stand.
  
  If you don't stand....that's cool. As long as you're not being disruptive, etc....I could care less what you do.

  +231
  
  I will stand as well. I take my hat off and stand during the national anthem. If you don't choose to, that's your perogative. I may not agree with it, but I am not going to judge you or belittle you for it.
• HitsRus

  

  dwccrew wrote: You have to love the United States. It's a country in which its citizens can argue over the most mundane/unimportant issues and continue to argue it forever.
  
  This thread reminds me of 'Another Brick in the Wall' by the greatest band ever, Pink Floyd.
  
  "We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control." Those words are so true after reading some of the posts on this thread. Why let children be independent thinkers?

  already been mentioned.
  
  Keep in mind that children need guidance also. That comes from parents and schools. Kids needs to learn that there are some things to stand up for. They have their entire adulthood for completely independent thought.
• queencitybuckeye

  HitsRus wrote: Kids needs to learn that there are some things to stand up for.

  Yes, but they need to be taught how to choose what those things are, not what those things are.
• HitsRus

  

  I don't disagree with that. But we are talking about kids, and at an early age some values have to be taught. Most certainly kids that are grade school, middle school, and early HS are not going to be able to choose rationally.
• cbus4life

  Middle school and high school not being able to choose?
  
  Are you kidding?
  
  Of course they can make a rational decision on it and think for themselves. Values are taught, yes, but values are also learned through personal inspection, exploration, etc. Only the kid can make those determinations for .
• dwccrew

  

  HitsRus wrote:

  dwccrew wrote: You have to love the United States. It's a country in which its citizens can argue over the most mundane/unimportant issues and continue to argue it forever.
  
  This thread reminds me of 'Another Brick in the Wall' by the greatest band ever, Pink Floyd.
  
  "We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control." Those words are so true after reading some of the posts on this thread. Why let children be independent thinkers?

  already been mentioned.
  
  Keep in mind that children need guidance also. That comes from parents and schools. Kids needs to learn that there are some things to stand up for. They have their entire adulthood for completely independent thought.

  I don't disagree. I think parents are the key and if their parents tell them you have the right to choose if you stand or not, it's their decision. The school should not impose on that.
  
  Also, I didn't say for children to be completely independent thinkers, but telling them that they MUST stand for the pledge or sit in the hallway isn't teaching them that they can be an independent thinker.
  

  queencitybuckeye wrote:

  HitsRus wrote: Kids needs to learn that there are some things to stand up for.

  Yes, but they need to be taught how to choose what those things are, not what those things are.

  Exactly.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Queencity hit the nail on the head, Hits is in left field as usual......
  
  I agree kids need guidance from parents and schools but that comes in the form of laying out all the options, discussion of those options, weighing pros and cons to the options, and then letting them decide for themselves....
  
  They need to understand that America is about their right to choose certain things and they inherenly possess certain liberties, more than it is about reciting the Pledge....
  
  For some reason ppl like Hits have put the wagon before the horse.....you think the saying of the Pledge is more important than the liberties we individuals are afforded by virtue of the fact that we live in a great country and we have fathers and grandfathers who fought and died to ensure we can CHOOSE for ourselves....
• queencitybuckeye

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: Queencity hit the nail on the head, Hits is in left field as usual......
  

  Thanks. Hope I don't ruin your opinion by saying that if my kid didn't stand, I'd be furious, not because of not standing, but for choosing such an inane hill to die on, so to speak.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  What you do with your kid is your business....what a teacher does with your kid is not their business (regarding personal choices that they have a right to make for themselves...don't get me wrong teachers have the right to discipline w/in their boundaries....).
• HitsRus

  

  First of all, I'm in right field...can you read? If you can, thank your teacher.
  
  We are talking students...minor children.
  Cbus thinks grade school and middle school kids can understand ethereal concepts like freedom and liberty enough that they can make a rational decision about whether to stand for the POA or sit in protest.....rigghttht. Sure they can choose....odds are they are going to choose ice cream instead of broccolli.
  As I said before on this never ending thread....if a 12 year old refuses to stand for the POA, it is either attention seeking petulance(maybe I need to use smaller words), or the parents have told him not to. As I said before, if the parents don't want them to stand, then allow them to choose what their child should do when the rest of the class recites.
  Maybe a HS junior or senior, having taken government, civics, American and world history(uh oh, teachers teaching values!),...and being one hell of a thoughtful, insightful teenager can come up with a thoughtful reason why he should sit in protest.
  Really, that is an exercise best left to college students.
• queencitybuckeye

  By the time I reached 16 or 17, I was capable of making sound decisions better than many (if not most) people decades my senior.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Hits,You are making broad generalizations on why a kid would choose what he does and what age they will do it....I doubt that kids of a young age would choose not to stand, but when they do if it is in protest of something then it's obviously time to discuss why they are, their rights, the consequences of their actions and what the POA stands for and then let them make their informed choice...
  
  Seems you are one of the few still sticking to your narrow-minded authoritarian POV. I'm thankful you are the minority.
• BRF

  

  Who says he's (Hits) in the minority? I would say that he's in the majority.
  
  BTW, we DID have a little discussion among my seniors today about this. It was nearly unanimous in that people should stand for the Pledge, whether one recites it or not.....stand.
  
  I have never had a senior not stand for the Pledge.
  
  They thought it was a good idea that if you don't want to stand for the Pledge, then just wait outside until the exercise is over. Some stated that if you don't want to stand for the Pledge out of some sort of protest, that it would be better to get out and do something about whatever the beef is about.
  
  Now, mind you, we are in a small town of about 8000 people, so that demographic probably plays pretty heavily into it.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Wow...the majority thinks you should stand for the POA. Groundbreaking stuff. So you asked them nothing about a person's right to choose whether or not they want to stand???? Is that because they'd probably recognize the right to not stand and recognize that the teacher is misusing his/her power by ordering them to stand in the hall???
  
  As for getting out to do something about it, what did they suggest??? Protest???
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Protest - It's the American way!
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Let me guess, they said its a good idea to stand out in the hall if you don't want to stand up, then you should get out and do something about it like protest. But protest where no one can see you, like out in the hall.