students not standing for the pledge, what say you?

• Strapping Young Lad

  

  And since when do you have to be an ADULT or a YOUNG ADULT to be able to THINK FOR YOURSELF??? Get real ppl!!!!
  
  I would hope that as TEACHERS and PARENTS you would encourage free thinkers and individualism by the AGE OF TWELVE!!!!!!
• majorspark

  

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: And since when do you have to be an ADULT or a YOUNG ADULT to be able to THINK FOR YOURSELF??? Get real ppl!!!!
  
  I would hope that as TEACHERS and PARENTS you would encourage free thinkers and individualism by the AGE OF TWELVE!!!!!!

  Children in this age group can think for themselves. They just don't under the law have ability to act on their thoughts. One of the greatest acts of political speech in this country is voting. We don't allow those under 18 to exercise their thoughts and cast a vote.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  What do you get out of making or strongarming a student, who has legitimate beef with the pledge, into standing???
  
  That's all I'd like to know. What inside of you does it feed to act like that???
  
  It seems to me that you would be the same type of person to call out a person who is not standing for the anthem at a baseball game....
• majorspark

  

  I leave it up to the parent, the teacher, and authorities in the school district to decide how this type of situation should be handled.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: And sometimes that means giving a person the right to have their own opinions, even when those opinions don't agree with YOU. It's not all about YOU.

  
  You do realize, I hope, that that same argument can be used towards you?
• Glory Days

  

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: uggh . Hits, how would I know what part a person (even a 12yr old OR LESS) would have with the pledge??? If you can't imagine that a person could be skeptical of 'liberty and justice for all' or 'God', maybe you need to pick up a history book, or a newspaper.
  
  As far as freedom of speech going both ways, of course it does. If it makes you feel like a man or an American hero to invite someone who doesnt' do things YOUR way, to leave the country, that's your business.
  
  Tht's the kind of mentality that I don't like...If you don't agree with me then you should leave the country.
  
  In other words "you are not as American as I am!!!"...I have more right to this country than YOU.
  
  Well, like i said before if you don't respect a persons right to protest, to choose not to say the POA, or a person's freedom of speech, perhaps it YOU who do not understand what it means to be American. It goes much further than the POA. You have to ACT like an American, not just mouth the words.
  
  And sometimes that means giving a person the right to have their own opinions, even when those opinions don't agree with YOU. It's not all about YOU.

  So its american to stand up for what you believe in, except when your are standing up to someone who doesnt believe in the same thing you do? so if you dont agree with me, i am not allowed to tell you i dont agree with you and how i feel about something?
  
  or the mentality of "i am more american than you because i go against what everyone else is doing". you ever think to realize most people want to say the pledge? they arent just doing it because they are told? i hope so because you stated 12 years can think for themselves.
• BRF

  

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: It seems to me that you would be the same type of person to call out a person who is not standing for the anthem at a baseball game....

  I take it that you would have a problem with someone doing that (excercising their freedom of speech).
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  You can exercise your freedom of speech, but why would someone feel the need to lecture someone who silently protests????
  
  What do you get out of that??? If you did that you would do it because you are offended that someone out there has an opinion different than your, right???
  
  What exactly would you say to that person??? Stand up!!! Move out of this country!!! You don't belong here!!!! What would it be???
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Glory days, it's not about standing up to SOMEONE.
  
  The only reason you would feel the nedd to STAND UP TO a person who is in protest is because you feel that a person is wrong in their belief. Who are you to tell someone what to believe in or what traditions to follow...
  
  What if a person refuses the POA because that is how they've been raiseed by their parents. Why do YOU get to STAND UP to another person's values or beliefs???
  
  You can tell someone you don't agree with them....You can walk around all day, go to Synagogues and say hey I'm a Christan and what you believe here is wrong. You can call Cuba and say "hey, your system is the wrong one. You can find someone in a Turban and say HEY your religion is WRONG...
  
  But what do you get out of it??? Why not just leave people be, who aren't harmiong anyone and merely expressing their belifes...They aren't physically bothering you. Its not THEIR problem tha tyou are offended and intolerant of their actions. Its your problem.
  
  I realize I'm not going to cahnge anyones mind, I just want to know WHAT DO YOU GET OUT OF TELLING PEOPLE THEIR BELIEFS ARE WRONG, because they aren't the same as yours???
• queencitybuckeye

  Why would someone feel the need to protest silently? Seems like someone who wants to say something, but lacks the balls to do so.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Obviously it's working, to simply sit for the pledge, because you all are up in arms about it.
  
  And why does it have to be some macho thing???? YOU don't have the balls to let someone express their opinions.
  
  I feel sorry for a kid who has to deal w/ some macho intolerent @$$$ like yourself...
• queencitybuckeye

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: Obviously it's working, to simply sit for the pledge, because you all are up in arms about it.

  I'm not up in arms at all. I asked a question. Nothing was implied, all inferences drawn (i.e. my being an intolerent (sic) ass) are yours and yours alone.
  
  I'll ask it again. If one is protesting something, isn't the point of said protest an attempt, albeit a largely impotent one, to shine a light on something and in some small way, attempt to affect change? Otherwise, how it is anything but simple petulance?
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Your implication that one who chooses to protest in silence lacks the courage to do so otherwise???
  
  Do you not agree that not standing has obviously generate quite a heated response, so I would say that this method has worked pretty well
  
  And you are assuming that the individual in question is not doing other things. Perhaps, sitting during the POA is merely one act, among others.
• queencitybuckeye

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: Do you not agree that not standing has obviously generate quite a heated response, so I would say that this method has worked pretty well

  If your goal is to generate heat, sure. I would hope the goal instead would be to generate light, and it fails completely in that regard.
  

  And you are assuming that the individual in question is not doing other things. Perhaps, sitting during the POA is merely one act, among others.

  If someone does 1000 productive things and one unproductive thing, it doesn't change the fact that it's unproductive.
• Glory Days

  

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: Glory days, it's not about standing up to SOMEONE.
  
  The only reason you would feel the nedd to STAND UP TO a person who is in protest is because you feel that a person is wrong in their belief. Who are you to tell someone what to believe in or what traditions to follow...
  
  What if a person refuses the POA because that is how they've been raiseed by their parents. Why do YOU get to STAND UP to another person's values or beliefs???
  
  You can tell someone you don't agree with them....You can walk around all day, go to Synagogues and say hey I'm a Christan and what you believe here is wrong. You can call Cuba and say "hey, your system is the wrong one. You can find someone in a Turban and say HEY your religion is WRONG...
  
  But what do you get out of it??? Why not just leave people be, who aren't harmiong anyone and merely expressing their belifes...They aren't physically bothering you. Its not THEIR problem tha tyou are offended and intolerant of their actions. Its your problem.
  
  I realize I'm not going to cahnge anyones mind, I just want to know WHAT DO YOU GET OUT OF TELLING PEOPLE THEIR BELIEFS ARE WRONG, because they aren't the same as yours???

  For the same reason people dont stand for the pledge, because they can. Because they feel what they believe in is right. why does it matter to YOU why someone voices their opinion on someone else's belief?
  
  and what do you get out of not standing and saying the pledge? its just a bunch of words. you arent signing any legal contracts or giving up anything by taking 30 seconds to say some words.
• BRF

  

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: What exactly would you say to that person??? Stand up!!! Move out of this country!!! You don't belong here!!!! What would it be???

  None of the above. My first remark would be "What's your problem?"
  
  I think that's a pretty fair question to ask to the person who wants to do their little protest, yet not have anyone use their First Amendment freedom to question their act.
  
  You want to defend, so badly, one's right to not stand, yet you seem to be adamant in stifling another's opinion about it.
• cbus4life

  Very professional of a teacher to ask a student "what their problem is." Or telling them to move out of the country. LMFAO.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  None of the above. My first remark would be "What's your problem?"
  I think that's a pretty fair question to ask to the person who wants to do their little protest, yet not have anyone use their First Amendment freedom to question their act.
  You want to defend, so badly, one's right to not stand, yet you seem to be adamant in stifling another's opinion about it.

  
  Looking for where it is stated that this is a teacher/student only scenario.
  :huh:
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  what's your problem???
  
  i am protesting what I see as injustice to homosexuals, by not allowing them the same rights to marriage as heteros...
  
  or
  
  I don't like the idea that God is mentioned in the Pledge.....
  
  What say you????
  
  Also, do you address everyone like that??? What's your problem????
  
  How about 'what's your reason for not standing???' or are you in protest and of what??? It is not a problem, except to you who are offended by someone who doesn't ACT LIKE YOU...
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  QueenCity, It doesn't matter if the response is heated or not. The response means you've drawn attention to your cause, which is the goal. The only way it is heated is because certain people take offense. Stiil the goal of attention getting is complete. The protest has had effect.
  
  Why is sitting during the Pledge unproductive, if it's brought attention to the issue as it must have, since someone started a whole thread about it and it continues daily...
  
  Glory, Feel free and voice your opinion...I'm just curious, do you go around all day questioning people of other religions, political parties, fans of certain music, or sports that aren't the same as yours???
  
  I don't encounter many people that are so taken back by someone else's choice and opinion that they need to openly question it, as you guys are. If it was me, I'd realize that obviously this person has a beef with something in the POA and is in protest, then go about my business. I certainly wouldn't say "whats your problem"... If i was curious I'd say 'what are you protesting'???....
  
  i don't see the need to start a conversation off with "what's your problem?!??!".....
• BRF

  

  And that's YOUR problem. With all your "rights" talk, what's so wrong about a simple basic question?
• queencitybuckeye

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: QueenCity, It doesn't matter if the response is heated or not. The response means you've drawn attention to your cause, which is the goal. The only way it is heated is because certain people take offense. Stiil the goal of attention getting is complete. The protest has had effect.
  
  Why is sitting during the Pledge unproductive, if it's brought attention to the issue as it must have, since someone started a whole thread about it and it continues daily...
  

  What good is "bringing attention to your cause" if no one knows what the cause is? In fact, you have not brought attention to your cause, you've brought attention to yourself.
  
  Unless of course that is your cause. In many cases, I believe it to be just that. Goes back to my petulance comment earlier.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  BRF, Just wondering if you start all conversation with such hostile language or just when someone is opposing your views???? I generally don't hear people, let alone strangers, or adults and children, speak that way with one another. I could understand something like " what exactly are you protesting" If on eis curious.
  
  If you asked me like that I'd gladly tell you. If you said 'what's your problem' to me I'd probably ask you what your problem was, then we'd get nowhere.
  
  Queen, Or maybe you could consider this: maybe the person is not protesting, but simply does not believe in God or that some facet of the United States is doing everything in its powere to deliver justice, in whatever tiny but meaningful way, in this individuals eyes an dhe simply wishes not to stand.
  
  
  As we are saying on another thread, what if a child's father has been convicted and imprisoned but the kid passionately defends his fathers innocence and thinks that the justice system has instead done an injustice to his family, and simply does no twant to stand and recognize the phrase "justice for all"...So it doesn't even have to be prtoest. It may just be a personal choice, not to say it.
• Glory Days

  

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: Glory, Feel free and voice your opinion...I'm just curious, do you go around all day questioning people of other religions, political parties, fans of certain music, or sports that aren't the same as yours???
  
  I don't encounter many people that are so taken back by someone else's choice and opinion that they need to openly question it, as you guys are. If it was me, I'd realize that obviously this person has a beef with something in the POA and is in protest, then go about my business. I certainly wouldn't say "whats your problem"... If i was curious I'd say 'what are you protesting'???....
  
  i don't see the need to start a conversation off with "what's your problem?!??!".....

  I do, just ask all my friends that are Steelers fans. Oh and isnt that what we do right here on freehuddle? Just look how many of us have different opinions.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Steeler fans deserve it. I don't see how anyone could have that view!!! That's just crazy and the team/fans deserve to be exiled...