posted by friendfromlowry

His comments on Rodman were awesome. “If he goes to Vegas, we definitely ain’t seeing him again.” 

Phil Jackson, to his credit, knew how to handle Rodman.  It was very telling that MJ said about Rodman: "When he was there, he was ALWAYS on point". (meaning he could be counted on to give 100%; and "He was one of the smartest players I ever played with.".  The latter is high praise considering who Jordan played with.  Last night's episodes made me remember that for all his qualities, no one hustled more on the court than Rodman fighting for those rebounds.  

Rodman is one of the smartest players to ever suit up, so no surprise he was the smartest teammate MJ had.

Also incredible that team featured maybe the 2 best on ball defenders in 50+ years. And the 3rd best defender on the team was a 9-time First Team All-Defense and 1-time DPOY. Just incredible.

Anyone else think Carmen Electra still has it at 48 years old?

posted by like_that

Anyone else think Carmen Electra still has it at 48 years old?

Hell yes!

posted by like_that

Anyone else think Carmen Electra still has it at 48 years old?

Yep.

I loved the stuff about the Pistons and Horace Grant calling them bitches. You can still hear after nearly 30 years the hate is still there. 

The stuff about the creation of the triangle offense and Jordan giving up on taking more shots was great too. 

Those 2 episodes really highlighted how tough it was for the Bulls to keep it together.  Players today...no way they handle going through all that for that many years.

These guys played over a decade together...today, guys stay for a few years then bolt.

And for all the BS about how Jordan won all that stuff with great players around him...please.  Look at his big men....Bill Cartright, Luke Longley....Bill Wennington?

Oh...they havent got to the Knicks yet!!!!!!

posted by Spock

Those 2 episodes really highlighted how tough it was for the Bulls to keep it together.  Players today...no way they handle going through all that for that many years.

 

These guys played over a decade together...today, guys stay for a few years then bolt.

And for all the BS about how Jordan won all that stuff with great players around him...please.  Look at his big men....Bill Cartright, Luke Longley....Bill Wennington?

The big men weren't really needed in the triangle at the time. It was more about movement and spacing. Jordan did have probably the greatest number 2 of all time with him, Pippen, and then a legit 3 in Horace Grant and then Rodman. Jordan also had a combination of Paxton, BJ Armstrong and then Steve Kerr, Ron Harper, and Toni Kukoc as role players. The team was stacked for sure.

Really no other team in the league could top their top 3. the 93 Suns and 98 Jazz came maybe the closest. Maybe the 98 Pacers too. 

posted by Spock

Oh...they havent got to the Knicks yet!!!!!!

I have a feeling episodes 5 and 6 are going to get into the fun stuff about the 93 finals, Jordan retiring, coming back, and the second run at the title including those great Knicks series. 
 

Saw the sneak peak and looks like some fireworks with Horace Grant and Jordan, in that Grant leaked info to a book/article?

Could get reaaal good!

posted by thavoice

Saw the sneak peak and looks like some fireworks with Horace Grant and Jordan, in that Grant leaked info to a book/article?

Could get reaaal good!

Oh that could be. I know when Grant left for the Magic after the 94 season, his relationship with the rest of the Bulls went south. I thought it was more he left them for more money and Shaq/ Penny. Those Magic-Bulls games were fun.  

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Oh that could be. I know when Grant left for the Magic after the 94 season, his relationship with the rest of the Bulls went south. I thought it was more he left them for more money and Shaq/ Penny. Those Magic-Bulls games were fun.  

I caught like the last 45 seconds of the clip. Jordan said Horace gave details, and HOrace vehemently denied it.  Also could have been how they cut the promo though.    Talked of how Horace was a bit jealous he didnt get more attention..

posted by Spock

Those 2 episodes really highlighted how tough it was for the Bulls to keep it together.  Players today...no way they handle going through all that for that many years.

These guys played over a decade together...today, guys stay for a few years then bolt.

And for all the BS about how Jordan won all that stuff with great players around him...please.  Look at his big men....Bill Cartright, Luke Longley....Bill Wennington?

If the Bulls played in today’s media climate, they crumble way sooner.

And they didn’t play together for 10 years. Scottie and Jordan did (with Jordan leaving for 1.5).That’s it.

As for the big men, sure they sucked. Counterpoint, Michael never beat a good C in the finals (and not many in playoffs in general). 22 year old Vlade, Duckworth, Mark West, Brickowski/Johnson, Ostertag x2, Keefe? I mean, not exactly murderers row of centers. 

In Jordan’s timeframe, there were only a handful of great C. Olajuwon (never played), Shaq (1-1), Ewing (like 4-0 or something) and Mourning (I think 1-0). Pacers had Rik Smits ffs. Laimbeer kicked his ass 3/4 years. It wasn’t like he had to go against athletic bigs able to switch, or rim protectors or anything every round. It was like once in 4 rounds, every other year.

posted by Laley23

If the Bulls played in today’s media climate, they crumble way sooner.

And they didn’t play together for 10 years. Scottie and Jordan did (with Jordan leaving for 1.5).That’s it.

As for the big men, sure they sucked. Counterpoint, Michael never beat a good C in the finals (and not many in playoffs in general). 22 year old Vlade, Duckworth, Mark West, Brickowski/Johnson, Ostertag x2, Keefe? I mean, not exactly murderers row of centers. 

In Jordan’s timeframe, there were only a handful of great C. Olajuwon (never played), Shaq (1-1), Ewing (like 4-0 or something) and Mourning (I think 1-0). Pacers had Rik Smits ffs. Laimbeer kicked his ass 3/4 years. It wasn’t like he had to go against athletic bigs able to switch, or rim protectors or anything every round. It was like once in 4 rounds, every other year.

I'd agree with that somewhat. The Magic beating the Jordan Bulls in 1995 when he came back is a good example of the Bulls not being able to stop a big man like Shaq. Now, the next year, they swept them in the ECS. But, yeah, Jordan never had to face Hakeem or David Robinson in the finals. 

The teams that gave the Bulls the most trouble had size, like the Jazz in 97-98 and the Pacers. The Pacers not only had Smitts, but the Davis brothers. 

My take for a long time has been if the Bulls would have faced the Rockets of 1994 and 1995, the Rockets would have won one of those series. I don't think they would have been able to stop Hakeem as well as Clyde Drexler and the size of the Rockets. That 1994 title team for Houston has Hakeem, Clyde, Robert Horry, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith and Sam Cassel. They would have been toe to toe with the Bulls in any combination of the 3 peat era. 

posted by Laley23

If the Bulls played in today’s media climate, they crumble way sooner.

And they didn’t play together for 10 years. Scottie and Jordan did (with Jordan leaving for 1.5).That’s it.

As for the big men, sure they sucked. Counterpoint, Michael never beat a good C in the finals (and not many in playoffs in general). 22 year old Vlade, Duckworth, Mark West, Brickowski/Johnson, Ostertag x2, Keefe? I mean, not exactly murderers row of centers. 

In Jordan’s timeframe, there were only a handful of great C. Olajuwon (never played), Shaq (1-1), Ewing (like 4-0 or something) and Mourning (I think 1-0). Pacers had Rik Smits ffs. Laimbeer kicked his ass 3/4 years. It wasn’t like he had to go against athletic bigs able to switch, or rim protectors or anything every round. It was like once in 4 rounds, every other year.

Speaking of big men, i thought it was classic when they spoke to a few Centers after he was drafted they stated how you "cannot win in the NBA without a dominant big man, he will not succeed because he is not a big man, etc etc etc"

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I'd agree with that somewhat. The Magic beating the Jordan Bulls in 1994 when he came back is a good example of the Bulls not being able to stop a big man like Shaq. Now, the next year, they swept them in the ECS. But, yeah, Jordan never had to face Hakeem or David Robinson in the finals. 

My take for a long time has been if the Bulls would have faced the Rockets of 1994 and1995, the Rockets would have won one of those series. I don't think they would have been able to stop Hakeem as well as Clyde Drexler and the size of the Rockets. That 1994 title team for Houston has Hakeem, Clyde, Robert Horry, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith and Sam Cassel. They would have been toe to toe with the Bulls in any combination of the 3 peat era. 

 

Who has beaten a team for the title with great centers? The position itself fell by the wayside from 1990 on....other than mostly what you mentioned

posted by Ironman92

Who has beaten a team for the title with great centers? The position itself fell by the wayside from 1990 on....other than mostly what you mentioned

Well the Rockets beat Shaq and Ewing. 

The 99 Spurs beat Ewing who was washed up by that point. The 2004 Pistons beat the Lakers Shaq. 

posted by thavoice

Speaking of big men, i thought it was classic when they spoke to a few Centers after he was drafted they stated how you "cannot win in the NBA without a dominant big man, he will not succeed because he is not a big man, etc etc etc"

That was largely true though. Jordan himself said it. In order to get to the top level, he had to put on weight and bulk up. He had to do that in order to get past the Pistons and not get the shit beat out of him. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Well the Rockets beat Shaq and Ewing. 

The 99 Spurs beat Ewing who was washed up by that point. The 2004 Pistons beat the Lakers Shaq. 

And the Rockets has the best center

posted by Ironman92

And the Rockets has the best center

Post Jordan, not a lot of true C.

• Pistons over Shaq/Lakers
• Celtics over Pau/Lakers
• Lakers over Howard/Magic

posted by Laley23

Post Jordan, not a lot of true C.

• Pistons over Shaq/Lakers
• Celtics over Pau/Lakers
• Lakers over Howard/Magic

Not a lot of true centers and few of the Hakeem, Shaq, Ewing

Im missing your point.

posted by Ironman92

Not a lot of true centers and few of the Hakeem, Shaq, Ewing

 

Im missing your point.

You asked what teams have beaten another in the finals without the best C. I went with example of that, only counting series that actually featured a true C.

The rule changes have basically taken away the big physical guys. You used to be allowed to play physical and foul hard. You get thrown out and suspended if you play that way today. For example, look at Golden State. If they played 30 years, they would have a good regular season, then get beaten up in the playoffs. 

posted by Al Bundy

The rule changes have basically taken away the big physical guys. You used to be allowed to play physical and foul hard. You get thrown out and suspended if you play that way today. For example, look at Golden State. If they played 30 years, they would have a good regular season, then get beaten up in the playoffs. 

The Pistons and the Knicks from the early 90's would crush every team in the NBA today.  They were rough.

posted by Al Bundy

The rule changes have basically taken away the big physical guys. You used to be allowed to play physical and foul hard. You get thrown out and suspended if you play that way today. For example, look at Golden State. If they played 30 years, they would have a good regular season, then get beaten up in the playoffs. 

posted by Spock

The Pistons and the Knicks from the early 90's would crush every team in the NBA today.  They were rough.

 

Maybe...but then again those teams rarely shot threes. The Warriors would be able to space better to be able to negate the physical play and shoot way more threes. I'm not sure those physical teams would be able to run with the Warriors or other run and gun teams today. 

For example, for the 1992-1993 season, Dan Majerle and Reggie Miller led the NBA with 167 3 pointers. Last year, James Harden had 378 and Steph had 354 made 3 pointers. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

 

posted by Spock

The Pistons and the Knicks from the early 90's would crush every team in the NBA today.  They were rough.

 

Maybe...but then again those teams rarely shot threes. The Warriors would be able to space better to be able to negate the physical play and shoot way more threes. I'm not sure those physical teams would be able to run with the Warriors or other run and gun teams today. 

For example, for the 1992-1993 season, Dan Majerle and Reggie Miller led the NBA with 167 3 pointers. Last year, James Harden had 378 and Steph had 354 made 3 pointers. 

Steph is the best shooter that I have ever seen, but he is also playing in an era where you can't handcheck or rough him up. They have basically taken defense out of the game. I think comparing stats under different sets of rules is comparing apples to oranges.