posted by justincredible

I've read that the FBI knew about the kid, and spoke to someone who reported his comments on a youtube video, saying he was going to be a "professional school shooter" or something similar, yet this still happened. WTF was the FBI doing in between? Did they not think to make a visit to the kid directly? People were literally joking this kid was eventually going to shoot up a school, yet nothing was done.

Busy playing partisan politics...

There are also reports that this kid allegedly was sympathizer with middle east resistance groups.  There were plenty of red flags.  If he got his gun legally, the FBI knew about it or should have.  

posted by Automatik

But too often this happens and the "gun weirdos" throw up there hands like "well that's just the way it is!" Even the thought of addressing the issue sparks outrage. It's unreal. 

Probably because it is way too easy to poke holes (with actual data and logic) in most arguments for gun control.  If you look at the majority of where gun crime comes stems from, I think we could make try a couple solutions that would drop the statistics significantly.

Also, how about we actually enforce the laws we already have in place, before we throw out more laws that will not work?  All of these red flags and the FBI acknowledged this kid as a threat.  

posted by kizer permanente

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-death-statistics-assault-mass-shootings-accidents-2017-10

There is a reason why people dont believe the anti gun people when the bring out stats like this.

That article states 11,000 die a year due to guns, more or less.

If you look up the stats for traffic fatalites, in 2016 there were over 37,000 people killed in auto accidents, and average of 104 a day.

One can fanagle stats many ways to prove their own agenda.   

Last I looked 37,461 > 11,000

posted by kizer permanente

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-death-statistics-assault-mass-shootings-accidents-2017-10

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/17/guns-are-now-killing-as-many-people-as-cars-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.1177bdac9c6e

Those stats make no sense. Almost every source say that gun and car accidents are almost identical in 2014 per 100k. And that includes the skewed suicides and justifiable homicides. Unless they are making up odds because of how many people own guns vs cars it doesn't make sense.

https://crimeresearch.org/2015/01/are-guns-more-likely-to-kill-you-than-a-car-is-no/ Also

posted by like_that

Busy playing partisan politics...

There are also reports that this kid allegedly was sympathizer with middle east resistance groups.  There were plenty of red flags.  If he got his gun legally, the FBI knew about it or should have.  

 

posted by Automatik

But too often this happens and the "gun weirdos" throw up there hands like "well that's just the way it is!" Even the thought of addressing the issue sparks outrage. It's unreal. 

Probably because it is way too easy to poke holes (with actual data and logic) in most arguments for gun control.  If you look at the majority of where gun crime comes stems from, I think we could make try a couple solutions that would drop the statistics significantly.

 

Also, how about we actually enforce the laws we already have in place, before we throw out more laws that will not work?  All of these red flags and the FBI acknowledged this kid as a threat.  

 

The FBI needs to get hammered for this. Same shit with the terrorists who were also "flagged"

At this point what does flagging them even mean? Honest question, because I have no idea.

Not to mention it stats you are more likely killed by an asteroid attack than a dog attack.

posted by iclfan2

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/17/guns-are-now-killing-as-many-people-as-cars-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.1177bdac9c6e

Those stats make no sense. Almost every source say that gun and car accidents are almost identical in 2014 per 100k. And that includes the skewed suicides and justifiable homicides. Unless they are making up odds because of how many people own guns vs cars it doesn't make sense.

Yeah I'm not sure what formula was used to figure those stats.

posted by iclfan2

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/17/guns-are-now-killing-as-many-people-as-cars-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.1177bdac9c6e

Those stats make no sense. Almost every source say that gun and car accidents are almost identical in 2014 per 100k. And that includes the skewed suicides and justifiable homicides. Unless they are making up odds because of how many people own guns vs cars it doesn't make sense.

Its a BS article pushing the antti gun agenda..34K die on the roads per year, over 100 a day....not to mention they talk about dieing from asteroids striking....

posted by thavoice

Its a BS article pushing the antti gun agenda..34K die on the roads per year, over 100 a day....not to mention they talk about dieing from asteroids striking....

I would guess if an asteroid hit you and a dog bit you, you definitely ARE more likely to die from the asteroid. 
Maybe that's how they look at it?

posted by Automatik

The FBI needs to get hammered for this. Same shit with the terrorists who were also "flagged"

At this point what does flagging them even mean? Honest question, because I have no idea.

All background check are ran through the NICS database, ran by the FBI. When you buy a gun, you fill out a form and the store calls into the NICS hotline with your name, ssn (optional), and birthdate (I think). They run a check against their system and approve or deny the sale. If this guy was known by the FBI he should not have been able to legally purchase a firearm. So he either purchased it before they knew about him, and they never followed up knowing that he had purchased a firearm. Or they failed to flag him in the system. Either way, it's a bad look for the FBI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System

posted by Automatik

The FBI needs to get hammered for this. Same shit with the terrorists who were also "flagged"

At this point what does flagging them even mean? Honest question, because I have no idea.

Apparently it doesn't mean shit these days.

posted by thavoice

 

posted by kizer permanente

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-death-statistics-assault-mass-shootings-accidents-2017-10

There is a reason why people dont believe the anti gun people when the bring out stats like this.

 

That article states 11,000 die a year due to guns, more or less.

 

If you look up the stats for traffic fatalites, in 2016 there were over 37,000 people killed in auto accidents, and average of 104 a day.

 

One can fanagle stats many ways to prove their own agenda.   

 

Last I looked 37,461 > 11,000

I'm forced to actually agree with thavoice.  Everything I have ever read or heard is we are more likely to die from a car crash than a gun shot.  If you stay out of violent areas, the odds are even more in your favor.

And yes, being dishonest about the gun debate is why the "gun weirdos" dig in for their arguments.  You might think they are "weirdos"  (god forbid law abiding citizens excercise/show support for their 2nd amendment rights), but most know a lot about guns and the data that comes with it.  Don't come in with some weak bullshit argument without thinking it thru or researching it.

I guess the more I read on what constitutes a prohibited person, he might not have qualified as such and the purchase could have gone through. But it seems like a complete lack of judgement for the FBI not to follow up on a guy that they knew had made threats in the past and they knew had purchased a gun legally.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

It is really sad. It is really sad we are in a place where it no longer surpises us that this happens. It is the "norm" that kids can just get shot at school. 

It stems from nobody of power or influence gives a damn about trying to solve the problem and eliminate mass shootings. You can say, well it is a mental health issue, and maybe that makes you feel better. Well, maybe it is a mental health issue, so how do you address that? The feds, states, and local governments are gutting those programs, so words do not lead to action. 

Maybe the FBI did know a lot and just failed to follow up or maybe thye had other more important cases that came up, I don't know.

The important thing is nobody gives a damn anymore to even attempt at trying to prevent or stop this. We all say, oh this is sad, thoughts and prayers, , good luck, and then move on. Rinse and repeat. 

We live in a world where it is now ok for kids to get shot in the school and in the end, that's not problem we need to solve. 

 

It all starts at the family level, and with conscience formation.  Major problems at the family level, and lack of conscience and respect lead to most of this stuff ...........

But society seems to be doing everything it can to tear down the family structure and traditional religious values, and replace it with more government. 

And some wonder why we are where we are. 

posted by like_that

Apparently it doesn't mean shit these days.

posted by thavoice

 

posted by kizer permanente

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-death-statistics-assault-mass-shootings-accidents-2017-10

There is a reason why people dont believe the anti gun people when the bring out stats like this.

 

That article states 11,000 die a year due to guns, more or less.

 

If you look up the stats for traffic fatalites, in 2016 there were over 37,000 people killed in auto accidents, and average of 104 a day.

 

One can fanagle stats many ways to prove their own agenda.   

 

Last I looked 37,461 > 11,000

I'm forced to actually agree with thavoice.  Everything I have ever read or heard is we are more likely to die from a car crash than a gun shot.  If you stay out of violent areas, the odds are even more in your favor.

And yes, being dishonest about the gun debate is why the "gun weirdos" dig in for their arguments.  You might think they are "weirdos"  (god forbid law abiding citizens excercise/show support for their 2nd amendment rights), but most know a lot about guns and the data that comes with it.  Don't come in with some weak bullshit argument without thinking it thru or researching it.

Your slowly coming along....

Those nuts may have good points on some things  but when they trot out stats like that everyone will just dismiss all else they have to say.

Only way for this to end is taking away all guns going door to door.   That isn't happening and I'm notmsure we want to live in a society where you g o throguh TSA type of security everywhere we go

posted by justincredible

Maybe it's time to stop looking to government for a solution? It seems like we, as a society, lean too heavily on a system that has shown time and time again that it really doesn't give a shit about anything but expanding its own power and influence. Or maybe I'm just too cynical when it comes to government.

True......we dont need someone in DC to make a law to try to prevent these.  It wont.  

In this particular case: There are several building in this school's campus. Does anybody know how many resource officers/cops there were? 

posted by CenterBHSFan

In this particular case: There are several building in this school's campus. Does anybody know how many resource officers/cops there were? 

Unless there is a competant cop in each wing of a school it likely isnt going to do any good whatsoever and if you are a shooter you take out the unsuspecting officer first.

There isnt an easy answer.

other than confiscating every gun.

Ok, some kids from that school are saying that there was more than one shooter. I have to wonder if in the shock of the moment that their memories are jumbled.

That didn't take long.  This comes out often.  Likely just mistaken as it can be a very confusing time and unless they say they actually saw a second shooter then I'm not going to buy in.

posted by CenterBHSFan

Ok, some kids from that school are saying that there was more than one shooter. I have to wonder if in the shock of the moment that their memories are jumbled.

 

Fake news

Reported that no connection with the white supremecist group. Was highly skeptical in the first place. Don’t worry dumbasses like Piers Morgan haven’t changed their tweets. People with first hot takes without facts are such fucks. And they still could find a link, but it just continues the saga of bullshit reporting and lemmings drinking it up. 

Same thing with people trying to defend the “18” school shootings lie. This is why no one trusts the media.

Dont forget the 2nd shooter crap.

To think that everyone should be permitted to carry a weapon is bat shit crazy and to suggest such an idea is an indication of one’s ignorance.  The assumption that everyone that is a gun owner is a crazy shoot first individual, is the same narrow mind illiterate that would claim home school kids are serial killers.

I’m a strong believer that ownership of weapons is a privilege to be earned. That the rules for CCW should require 10 hours of proven range shooting per year to maintain a permit. Dont suggest that Belly believes something you’ve made up to get the attention of others to read your bull shit.

 For all you “gun controls ass wipes” that is not the fix or the solution. That a suggestion of the weak non-understanding minded and agenda driven cowards. The creators of the problem and the lack of balls to admit the wrong.

The destruction of the family unit, limitation of prayer, patriotism and honor, required military duty, liberal idea of teaching, lack of parenting and structure, inability of communication between counselor, parents, school officials, police and legal authorities is part of the blame. This is what the gun control activitist has created with their progressive thinking. Mental illness is the trigger that pulls the trigger. This is where the effort should be focused Mental illness. The identification of social deviants, problem individual, broken family structure and data base of records shared with authorities is a start.

Step 2 protection.   1.4 million Retired military individual that .04 percent of the population. This does not include retired police, fire and ems personal. Think of a base that is trained, back ground checked and volunteered to help support and protect our school, malls and streets. What was once a Civil Defense program could be re developed. It is a know and proven fact that the presents of resistance and the quick of that presents saves lives….

What to do something quick and effective … this is a solution .......not .. “gun control” 

“Trained Retired Volunteer Prevention Security” 

posted by Belly35

1.4 million Retired military individual that .04 percent of the population. This does not include retired police, fire and ems personal. Think of a base that is trained, back ground checked and volunteered to help support and protect our school, malls and streets. What was once a Civil Defense program could be re developed. It is a know and proven fact that the presents of resistance and the quick of that presents saves lives….

What to do something quick and effective … this is a solution .......not .. “gun control” 

“Trained Retired Volunteer Prevention Security” 

Any lawyers want to take a grab at this idea?  When the sh*t hits the fan and a TRVPS fatally wounds a bystander, what happens?    

posted by salto

Any lawyers want to take a grab at this idea?  When the sh*t hits the fan and a TRVPS fatally wounds a bystander, what happens?    

Kids don't die...  get a grip Collateral Damage happens ... is there a war on terrorist/school shooting  or is there not     

You cant have it both ways .. 

Fbi admits it fucked up. Media and the left (one in the same) can quit blaming republicans and the NRA now.