posted by Heretic

Meanwhile, the right's arguments are moving from "these kids who are pissed at being shot at are actually paid actors!!!!!!!!" to "these kids who are pissed at being shot at are assholes who have the audacity to speak impolitely to/about GUBMENT OFFICIALS!!!!!!!!!"

You’re equating fringe right with main stream left...

posted by queencitybuckeye

I've been looking for stats on how many school systems have armed teachers.

I think it’s really only in Texas. 

posted by Heretic

Meanwhile, the right's arguments are moving from "these kids who are pissed at being shot at are actually paid actors!!!!!!!!" to "these kids who are pissed at being shot at are assholes who have the audacity to speak impolitely to/about GUBMENT OFFICIALS!!!!!!!!!"

The one main difference is you can distinguish between the full retard right spewing that shit as opposed to the majority of the right who doesn't support that shit.  Meanwhile on the left you can't distinguish the difference between full retard left and regular left, because you have the MSM creaming themselves over incorrect information, purposeful disinformation and a teenage boy "STANDING UP" to Rubio while on the side he tweets advocating for violence against the right.  It apparently works considering it has trickled down to self proclaimed intelligent and righteous people like boogie who spew the same bullshit such as "assault weapons" even though this is the Nth thread on this topic in which boogie has been a full participant. Every point that has been made and counter made in this thread has been brought up in every other gun thread on this site.

posted by iclfan2

I think it’s really only in Texas. 

I know a school system, Sidney, in the area of Ohio where I grew up has such a program.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

For starters, his own chief said he should have "killed the killer".  Maybe he could have, maybe he wouldn't have been able to get a shot at him even if he wanted to.  Point is, he is an unfortunate side story in all of this.  This friggin chief is a loser for calling his own guy out.  

The sheriff is a loser, because he was busy virtue signaling regarding guns (the CNN town hall being the most recent) instead of  paying attention to the 39 reports about this lunactic.  He is busy blaming everyone but his complete negliegnec to run an effective police department.

posted by like_that

 a teenage boy "STANDING UP" to Rubio while on the side he tweets advocating for violence against the right. 

That kid talking to Rubio was a straight fuck. Your post was a lot more words of my response. 

posted by Heretic

Meanwhile, the right's arguments are moving from "these kids who are pissed at being shot at are actually paid actors!!!!!!!!" to "these kids who are pissed at being shot at are assholes who have the audacity to speak impolitely to/about GUBMENT OFFICIALS!!!!!!!!!"

Is this true, or is that just how it's being reported by the liberal media?

posted by iclfan2

I think it’s really only in Texas. 

I know there is one district in Butler County, OH that allows it. According to the article below, it requires written authorization from the school board for anyone other than law enforcement to carry on school grounds.

The Butler County Sheriff is offering free concealed carry classes for teachers in the county. Demand was so strong that he to cut it off at 300.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/education/2018/02/20/butler-county-sheriff-richard-k-jones-arming-teachers-my-grandkids/354298002/

posted by justincredible

I know there is one district in Butler County, OH that allows it. According to the article below, it requires written authorization from the school board for anyone other than law enforcement to carry on school grounds.

The Butler County Sheriff is offering free concealed carry classes for teachers in the county. Demand was so strong that he to cut it off at 300.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/education/2018/02/20/butler-county-sheriff-richard-k-jones-arming-teachers-my-grandkids/354298002/

It would be great if enough districts started such programs so that they could be measured in a statistically significant way. My guess is the deterrent effect would prove to be very high.

posted by jmog

Ruger Model 44, Remington Model 750, Ruger Model 99, etc. All semi-automatic hunting rifles that fit the same "difference" compared to an AR-15 as I mentioned above.

The Mini-14 is mostly known as a "ranch rifle" but is also a hunting rifle. The main difference is a ranch rifle typically is used to scare/kill unwanted animals that make their way onto a farm/ranch. So while you aren't in the woods "hunting" it is the same basic use.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14

 

You may want to read this to show that I am correct.

Partially, but still full of shit. I have owned a Mini 14. It came with a factory 10 shot mag. 30 rounders are available. You might just read your own wiki page. The mini was 1st manufactured 9 years before the ranch variant came out. The AR and the mini are mechanically similar.They do have a "ranch" designation It is used by many SWAT teams before it was replace by the M4 and is still used by many prison facilities.

The Ruger Model 44, Remington , Ruger Model 99, etc. All semi-automatic hunting rifles that fit the same "difference" Cosmetically very different.  They all come with Tubular 4 shot internal storage. NO MAGAZINES NO COMPARISON.

posted by queencitybuckeye

It would be great if enough districts started such programs so that they could be measured in a statistically significant way. My guess is the deterrent effect would prove to be very high.

I don't know.  It's always going to be statistically negligible when talking a few dozen events out of some 125,000 schools nationwide.  The only way you could start to make an argument is if these lunatics start shooting up schools other than their alma mater, AND their alma matter had guns.

I don't expect the deterrent factor to be all that high.  You're really just hoping to lower the response time and limit casualties.

Lest we forget, there WAS a cop with a gun in this case....didn't deter or stop this guy.

posted by gut

I don't know.  It's always going to be statistically negligible when talking a few dozen events out of some 125,000 schools nationwide.  The only way you could start to make an argument is if these lunatics start shooting up schools other than their alma mater, AND their alma matter had guns.

I don't expect the deterrent factor to be all that high.  You're really just hoping to lower the response time and limit casualties.

Lest we forget, there WAS a cop with a gun in this case....didn't deter or stop this guy.

That the cop with a gun failed doesn't mean other people in the building shouldn't be armed, it means more should be. We need to stop the idea that we have no part to play in our own defense. We are the primary players in that.

lets arm every convenience store clerk while we're at it. they're way more likely to encounter someone with a gun than a teacher is.

posted by MontyBrunswick

lets arm every convenience store clerk while we're at it. they're way more likely to encounter someone with a gun than a teacher is.

If the store owner is okay with it, so am I.

posted by justincredible

If the store owner is okay with it, so am I.

Yeah, I have 0 problem with a private business owner making this decision.  

posted by queencitybuckeye

That the cop with a gun failed doesn't mean other people in the building shouldn't be armed, it means more should be. We need to stop the idea that we have no part to play in our own defense. We are the primary players in that.

I'm just challenging the idea that arming teacher is going to be a significant deterrent.  The most effective thing that can be done is lock schools down and be vigilant about who you let in the building. 

Do we really want to trust these people with guns when they can't even monitor/control who has access to their campus?

posted by MontyBrunswick

lets arm every convenience store clerk while we're at it. they're way more likely to encounter someone with a gun than a teacher is.

This is actually quite common.

posted by Automatik

This is actually quite common.

Common but not mandatory. Make it mandatory

posted by MontyBrunswick

lets arm every convenience store clerk while we're at it. they're way more likely to encounter someone with a gun than a teacher is.

Many are already packing, and far more bad guys than good have won the room temperature challenge.

posted by Devils Advocate

Partially, but still full of shit. I have owned a Mini 14. It came with a factory 10 shot mag. 30 rounders are available. You might just read your own wiki page. The mini was 1st manufactured 9 years before the ranch variant came out. The AR and the mini are mechanically similar.They do have a "ranch" designation It is used by many SWAT teams before it was replace by the M4 and is still used by many prison facilities.

The Ruger Model 44, Remington , Ruger Model 99, etc. All semi-automatic hunting rifles that fit the same "difference" Cosmetically very different.  They all come with Tubular 4 shot internal storage. NO MAGAZINES NO COMPARISON.

 

 

Long winded answer to say "you are right with some caveats, but I will still say you are full of shit"

Holy shit, 3 other Broward cops got there and also didn’t go in. That sheriff needs fired now.

I was finally pushed to join the NRA. I'll be joining GOA and NAGR as well.

posted by queencitybuckeye

 

That the cop with a gun failed doesn't mean other people in the building shouldn't be armed, it means more should be. We need to stop the idea that we have no part to play in our own defense. We are the primary players in that.

I don't agree or disagree with this comment - I just want to point out that this is the same logical reasoning that the left uses when the government fails to prevent crime and that you routinely deride. 

Liberals - Government complaints to the FBI fail? The left says the answer is more government safeguards. 

Conservatives - Good Guys With Guns fail or fail to deter? We need more good guys with guns. 

The correct approach in a nation with 300 million guns is probably a little bit of both but that will never happen anytime soon because liberals and conservatives cannot debate firearm regulation reform in good faith. 

posted by justincredible

If the store owner is okay with it, so am I.

What is your stance on private businesses disallowing their employees from carrying or private individuals from carrying on their premises? Not trolling - just curious - as this seems to be a debate within libertarian/conservative politics these days e.g. NRA is for preventing businesses from denying concealed carry on basically natural rights grounds while Chamber of Commerce is against it on basically natural rights grounds