posted by justincredible

It won't be quiet, bitcoin is being attacked like crazy in the media as we speak. The amount of nonsense in the news, Elon Musk, etc. These are, imo, coordinated attacks by governments to keep the price down and scare people away for the short term. That said, I believe that governments are already quietly accumulating and we'll see a smaller government announce it as their reserve currency within a couple years. The US itself is sitting on at least 70k bitcoin they've had for years. 

But at no point in human history has humanity had a tool like bitcoin, which doesn't need anyone's permission to operate. It's fully opt-in and there isn't really much any single government can do to stop it, aside from shutting down the internet itself. Even then, there are ways to interact with the network by satellite. 

Given your hesitance I would recommend not buying any, or at the very least not buying very much. There is an absolutely massive rabbit hole to jump down to learn about bitcoin and the implications it has for the future. It took me a good year of research (books, youtube, etc) before it all started to click for me. 

Like I've said numerous times, I'm making a big bet on humanity. I think bitcoin is the most important invention the world has ever seen and I'd like to think we will take advantage of it to free ourselves from the inevitable shackles of digital totalitarianism that is coming our way if we don't.

Fix the money, fix the world. 

I don't want to make it seem like you're not right. All the things you've said make sense, and would lend itself to a very agreeable outcome, but I don't see the same access to this as we currently have, maybe to my detriment. It certainly has been proven that our current monetary system has never relied on equal access to it, so in many ways Bitcoin follows that trend for the reasons I laid out above. 

My hesitance is on how it'll ever be adopted into governments that can't control their spending. Issuing new dollars and deflating the value of the outstanding debt is the only thing keeping our system running at it's current pace (INSANE to say). But maybe that's where I'm not understanding how the limited supply of bitcoin works in the event that a government like the US keeps outspending their GDP. The taxing of the current outstanding/unrealized gains on bitcoin is another sticking point for me. They damn sure want those capital gains that are outstanding and if they incorporate bitcoin into the fold and treat it as currency I believe they lose that ability. But hell I don't know what I'm talking about, they'll likely nationalize our 401k's to get that trillion and then the bitcoin gains won't matter so much... I'm very pessimistic about our future (see 1/6/2021, CHAZ, etc.)

Hey, I'm an absolute dumbass (12 years of proof right here on this site) so I'm probably not right. 

I was very pessimistic about the future. Bitcoin changed that for me. Without hope for the future, what's the point? 

Video #2 from Hello Bitcoin.

GUT'S CRYIN - I'M BUYIN!

posted by Automatik

GUT'S CRYIN - I'M BUYIN!

posted by justincredible

It won't be quiet, bitcoin is being attacked like crazy in the media as we speak. The amount of nonsense in the news, Elon Musk, etc. These are, imo, coordinated attacks by governments to keep the price down and scare people away for the short term. That said, I believe that governments are already quietly accumulating and we'll see a smaller government announce it as their reserve currency within a couple years. The US itself is sitting on at least 70k bitcoin they've had for years. 

But at no point in human history has humanity had a tool like bitcoin, which doesn't need anyone's permission to operate. It's fully opt-in and there isn't really much any single government can do to stop it, aside from shutting down the internet itself. Even then, there are ways to interact with the network by satellite. 

Given your hesitance I would recommend not buying any, or at the very least not buying very much. There is an absolutely massive rabbit hole to jump down to learn about bitcoin and the implications it has for the future. It took me a good year of research (books, youtube, etc) before it all started to click for me. 

Like I've said numerous times, I'm making a big bet on humanity. I think bitcoin is the most important invention the world has ever seen and I'd like to think we will take advantage of it to free ourselves from the inevitable shackles of digital totalitarianism that is coming our way if we don't.

Fix the money, fix the world. 

I do not think you are wrong as I think some sort of crypto currency will be influential in the global market place. But, it would take a lot of upheaval for it to replace the dollar as the reserve currency for countries. Granted the current world economic system is only 76 years old, but the entire field of macro economic thinking and policy would have to change for crypto to replace the dollar, let alone other hard currencies. 

There is also the logistics of crypto replacing cash currency. You have to make it accessible to everyone in a country...that even means in far flung places where there is little to no internet or cell service. There are places here in the US, hell here in Ohio, where there is little to no internet, let alone cell service. Having cold hard cash is still easier. 

I think you're looking at how things are today and expecting them to be the same in a decade. 

posted by justincredible

I think you're looking at how things are today and expecting them to be the same in a decade. 

Perhaps, I give you that. I am not forecasting a global changing of the guard in terms of macro economics or economic public policy. I agree though, crypto in some form is here to stay and will be a player in the future. 

https://whatismoneypodcast.com/episodes/the-booth-series-episode-1-inflation-opposes-innovation

This is the first in a series of discussions that I believe paints a good picture of why the macro landscape has to change. As technology advances exponentially, driving costs down, an inflationary monetary policy that requires constant growth will always lead to the concentration of wealth and power to a small few.

I haven't finished the book these discussions were based on, but should finish it this weekend.

Bitcoin is legal tender in El Salvador. 

posted by justincredible

It won't be quiet, bitcoin is being attacked like crazy in the media as we speak. The amount of nonsense in the news, Elon Musk, etc. These are, imo, coordinated attacks by governments to keep the price down and scare people away for the short term. That said, I believe that governments are already quietly accumulating and we'll see a smaller government announce it as their reserve currency within a couple years. The US itself is sitting on at least 70k bitcoin they've had for years. 

But at no point in human history has humanity had a tool like bitcoin, which doesn't need anyone's permission to operate. It's fully opt-in and there isn't really much any single government can do to stop it, aside from shutting down the internet itself. Even then, there are ways to interact with the network by satellite. 

Given your hesitance I would recommend not buying any, or at the very least not buying very much. There is an absolutely massive rabbit hole to jump down to learn about bitcoin and the implications it has for the future. It took me a good year of research (books, youtube, etc) before it all started to click for me. 

Like I've said numerous times, I'm making a big bet on humanity. I think pizza is the most important invention the world has ever seen and I'd like to think we will take advantage of it to free ourselves from the inevitable shackles of digital totalitarianism that is coming our way if we don't.

Fix the money, fix the world. 

posted by Ironman92
FIFY

Took me a second to find it.

Trump calls Bitcoin a "scam" with his usual in-depth analysis.  I guess you can count Quaker out.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Trump calls Bitcoin a "scam" with his usual in-depth analysis.  I guess you can count Quaker out.

Interesting how he hasn't been on a network in forever (as far as I know, I could be wrong) but is brought on to talk shit about bitcoin right after the El Salvador news.

Orange coin > Orange man

Also love how he calls it a currency competing with the dollar.

Are we at all scared about the US seizing some (i haven't heard how much) of the bitcoin used to pay the russian hackers? Does that take away some of the aura of it's untraceable, unable to be confiscated, etc. benefits?

not to mention the fact that El Salvador and Panama (2 failed states with crime being 20%+ of their GDP) have adopted or at least talked about adopting Bitcoin as their currency. That is not a plus for me.

posted by j_crazy

Are we at all scared about the US seizing some (i haven't heard how much) of the bitcoin used to pay the russian hackers? Does that take away some of the aura of it's untraceable, unable to be confiscated, etc. benefits?

Not even in the slightest. One, the claim of Russian hackers is dubious as fuck. Two, there is a zero percent chance that our intelligence agencies were able to recover anything UNLESS the hackers had the bitcoin stored on a custodial service. Three, any claims that bitcoin is untraceable on the main chain is wrong. If I give you an address to send bitcoin to, you now know where it is. And can see it being moved around in the future. Bitcoin is absolutely terrible for criminal activity but when all of the FUD talks about how it's only good for criminal activity people that don't know any better are scared away. The blockchain is a public ledger. Always has been, always will be.

posted by j_crazy

not to mention the fact that El Salvador and Panama (2 failed states with crime being 20%+ of their GDP) have adopted or at least talked about adopting Bitcoin as their currency. That is not a plus for me.

It sure seems like a plus for the 70% of El Salvadorans that do not have banking accounts.

It was also always going to be a state like El Salvador to make the first move. Completely dollarized, so no loss of seignorage. 

If FUD wasn't effective they wouldn't push it.

my 74 year old Dad just called to say 'See they were able to take those guys bitcoin. doesnt sound too secure now'. This is the message they want out there. more people who should have it are frightened off. more FUD. #bitcoin

— Colm (@colmtwhelan) June 8, 2021

Low as I have seen it since I’ve been watching

It hit $30k not that long ago. It's probably going to go lower. 

I'm running out of things to sell so I can keep stacking this dip.

My initial buy in was at 18k. Wonder if it will go that low?

posted by Automatik

My initial buy in was at 18k. Wonder if it will go that low?

I doubt we see sub-$20k, but it's certainly possible. An 80% drop from the current ATH would be ~$13k, which is how big of a drop we had from the previous ATH.

gut watching the current negative news cycle around bitcoin.