Where exactly did I lose you? Still not clear on what blocks are and how they are mined?
posted by justincredibleJust transferred roughly $3000 worth of value on the blockchain for 51¢ and there was nothing anyone could have done to stop me. I did not have to ask permission or wait several days for fund to clear. My transaction was confirmed within 15 minutes and recorded in the blockchain for eternity.
Uncensorable money that governments cannot debase through reckless monetary policy.
what did you buy with bitcoin? i haven't seen anything i want to buy, that can be bought with bitcoin. Not taking a shot, just stating a fact that i haven't been exposed to any "real" uses for crypto, and that is a large reason for my naivte.
posted by j_crazywhat did you buy with bitcoin? i haven't seen anything i want to buy, that can be bought with bitcoin. Not taking a shot, just stating a fact that i haven't been exposed to any "real" uses for crypto, and that is a large reason for my naivte.
I didn't buy anything, just transferred to a different address I control. There are plenty of places that accept bitcoin for goods and services, I'm just not interested in spending any at this point. It's an accumulation game for me at this point. Another reason to not spend is that it triggers a taxable event because the US government sucks and classifies it as property.
That said, long-term holding IS a real use. I believe that bitcoin becomes the word reserve currency within a decade or so. I do not have a great outlook for the future of humanity if bitcoin doesn't win. Digital currency is inevitable, and the State controlling it will be an authoritarian nightmare.
A scarce, fully auditable, digitally native currency with a monetary policy set in stone that cannot be censored or taken from you sounds a lot better than a central bank digital currency that can be taken from your wallet without your consent, can be blocked from being spent anywhere they decide, can be set to expire after a certain date, etc.
posted by justincredibleWhere exactly did I lose you? Still not clear on what blocks are and how they are mined?
Yes
posted by ernest_t_bassYes
I'll try again and simplify as much as I can.
A block is a collection of transactions added to the blockchain. A block is added to the blockchain through the process of mining. Mining is essentially a big guessing game, and the winner gets the reward (new bitcoin and fees) and adds the new block to the blockchain. This means the blockchain is just a historical record of all transactions that have happened within the network.
You're old enough to remember checkbooks. Think of a block sort of like a page in your checkbook register. It's just a list of transactions recorded into a ledger. I'm not sure it's the best comparison, but I think it's fine for simplicity.
Decent article on why bitcoin is important.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/lies-deception-and-unnatural-money
tl;dr version (last 3 paragraphs):
You can look at historical forms of good money as having a set of “rules” that the system is based on, until someone comes in and “cheats” the system for selfish gain. That money created by the cheater is unnatural and ruins the “game.” Bitcoin fixes this, because everyone and anyone is capable of running a full node to maintain their own exact copy of the Bitcoin ledger, which keeps everyone honest and prevents bad actors — especially when the nodes and miners are financially incentivized to do so!
Bitcoin is superior money compared to hyper-inflatable currency. It doesn’t bear the same problems that have come with forms of money in the past, and it prevents the issues mentioned above from happening again. History has shown that humanity has thrived when society had hard money, and the impacts of a currency that can never be hyperinflated look very promising. It has the potential to usher in a new Renaissance or Industrial Revolution.
And, last but not least, the Bitcoin network will never lie to you. It is open-source, meaning you can look at the code yourself, for free, right down to every last detail. BTC has an open ledger that lets you become your own bank, and the master of your money. With Bitcoin, you take back the power from the corrupted people you were blindly trusting.
This is a great site I just found out about a little bit ago. Spend 15 minutes looking around, it's a great starting point for beginners.
posted by justincredibleDecent article on why bitcoin is important.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/lies-deception-and-unnatural-money
tl;dr version (last 3 paragraphs):
You can look at historical forms of good money as having a set of “rules” that the system is based on, until someone comes in and “cheats” the system for selfish gain. That money created by the cheater is unnatural and ruins the “game.” Bitcoin fixes this, because everyone and anyone is capable of running a full node to maintain their own exact copy of the Bitcoin ledger, which keeps everyone honest and prevents bad actors — especially when the nodes and miners are financially incentivized to do so!
Bitcoin is superior money compared to hyper-inflatable currency. It doesn’t bear the same problems that have come with forms of money in the past, and it prevents the issues mentioned above from happening again. History has shown that humanity has thrived when society had hard money, and the impacts of a currency that can never be hyperinflated look very promising. It has the potential to usher in a new Renaissance or Industrial Revolution.
And, last but not least, the Bitcoin network will never lie to you. It is open-source, meaning you can look at the code yourself, for free, right down to every last detail. BTC has an open ledger that lets you become your own bank, and the master of your money. With Bitcoin, you take back the power from the corrupted people you were blindly trusting.
Too long; don't waste your time on bullshit version: Blockchain is important. Crypto is important. An "investment" in Bitcoin is nothing more than speculation that it will continue to be popular, because it has no intrinsic value or productive use on its own.
Blockchain is open source. No one has to use Bitcoin, or even any existing crypto, to use blockchain.
Who's the shill that wrote that article, anyway? Usually authors with any kind of qualification & education have a link to their bio/cv.
We know your feelings, gut. You'll be one of the last to buy in and that makes me happy.
I'll say it again, no one can state with anything close to certainty that Bitcoin, or any other currently existing crypto, will come to be the dominant crypto in use. The only argument for the survival of Bitcoin, truthfully, is first mover advantage. But any good student of business/economics would tell you first-movers rarely end-up the winner.
So my advice is:
1) Don't buy into the hype. It's a zero-sum game, so don't be the one left holding the bag. A long-term buy & forget it strategy is plain stupid. Not just because of it's extreme volatility, but because the most likely outcome for Bitcoin and hundreds of other cryptos currently out there is a value of 0.
2) Always manage a basket of crypto. There could be dozens of mainstream cryptos to emerge (think computer makers, and remember the likes of IBM and Gateway), or there could be one dominant player (think Amazon). "Investing" in crypto is speculation, betting on just Bitcoin is folly.
3) Come up with a trading strategy that seeks to always recover at least your investment. Don't be the guy who watched his $1M paper gain go to $0 because he drank too much of the kool-aid.
This thread is bitcoin only, gut.
posted by justincredibleWe know your feelings, gut. You'll be one of the last to buy in and that makes me happy.
Not concerned about being last, or losing my money. I'll take opportunities to take people's money if and when those emerge.
99% of the people invested in Bitcoin won't be smart enough or quick enough to see the crash and get out before it's too late. More than likely, all their money will go to institutional and professional investors who simply take advantage of trends, and are only in crypto to make money (and not because of some idealistic libertarian fantasy).
Gut doesn't see value in a completely decentralized money that governments cannot manipulate. The hardest money the world has ever seen. Money that cannot be inflated, counterfeited, handed out to cronies. Money that is 100% auditable by anyone in the world running a node. You're right, I'm sure it's nothing and will fail in the end.
posted by justincredibleThis thread is bitcoin only, gut.
Which of my posts aren't talking about Bitcoin?
posted by gutWhich of my posts aren't talking about Bitcoin?
Do you know what the word "only" means?
I was giving you shit because you were talking about other crypto.
posted by justincredibleGut doesn't see value in a completely decentralized money that governments cannot manipulate. The hardest money the world has ever seen. Money that cannot be inflated, counterfeited, handed out to cronies. Money that is 100% auditable by anyone in the world running a node. You're right, I'm sure it's nothing and will fail in the end.
Wrong. 100% wrong. You are completely disillusioned about Bitcoin and crypto in general. And LMFAO if you think the crypto markets aren't highly manipulated.
Bitcoin is just one of dozens of competing cryptos, with dozens more to come from institutions like Facebook, JPM, China, etc...I've never said crypto doesn't have value, just that picking the winner is pure speculation. And all your current choices could be completely worthless in 5-10 years.
Lead with that, and drop the pretense that Bitcoin has a defensible market position because it doesn't.
posted by justincredibleDo you know what the word "only" means?
I was giving you shit because you were talking about other crypto.
You can't talk about investing in Bitcoin without talking about the crypto market. ALWAYS know the market you're investing in.
You make Bitcoin sound dreamy, just dreamy. But people thinking about investing their money need to understand the risks that you aren't mentioning.
Nothing I said was wrong. While markets may be manipulated to some extent, my reference was to the money supply itself. No one can fuck with the monetary policy. It cannot be manipulated. With that clarification, tell me what I said wrong? Tell me what I stated in the post you quoted is not true?
posted by gutYou can't talk about investing in Bitcoin without talking about the crypto market. ALWAYS know the market you're investing in.
You make Bitcoin sound dreamy, just dreamy. But people thinking about investing their money need to understand the risks that you aren't mentioning.
I'm not recommending that anyone buy it. I'm just giving the reasons why I do.
Of course it's a risk. Like I said, I'm making a bet. Do not buy bitcoin unless you understand the risks. Do not buy other crypto, period.
posted by gutYou can't talk about investing in Bitcoin without talking about the crypto market. ALWAYS know the market you're investing in.
You make Bitcoin sound dreamy, just dreamy. But people thinking about investing their money need to understand the risks that you aren't mentioning.
I'm not investing. I will never exchange any bitcoin I own for US dollars. As such, nothing I say in this thread should be considered investment advice.
posted by justincredibleI didn't buy anything, just transferred to a different address I control. There are plenty of places that accept bitcoin for goods and services, I'm just not interested in spending any at this point. It's an accumulation game for me at this point. Another reason to not spend is that it triggers a taxable event because the US government sucks and classifies it as property.
That said, long-term holding IS a real use. I believe that bitcoin becomes the word reserve currency within a decade or so. I do not have a great outlook for the future of humanity if bitcoin doesn't win. Digital currency is inevitable, and the State controlling it will be an authoritarian nightmare.
A scarce, fully auditable, digitally native currency with a monetary policy set in stone that cannot be censored or taken from you sounds a lot better than a central bank digital currency that can be taken from your wallet without your consent, can be blocked from being spent anywhere they decide, can be set to expire after a certain date, etc.
I don't disagree, but what point in World History can you point to someone with ALL THE POWER quietly bowing down to an upstart and letting that become the new de-facto power? I don't think bitcoin has any chance of becoming the world standard unless it allows a central bank to take control of it. If that doesn't happen, I see the US creating an all electric dollar much like the CCP has begun doing with the Yuan.
Speaking to your timeline, I have no faith that the US will be at a point where they can do any of this within 10 years. There are places I've lived, including where I grew up, that have 6 homes on a 19 mile stretch of dirt road with 15 total people living in them. None of those homes have 4G cell service, no hardwired broadband service, and have enough tree coverage that satellite internet service that is offered will not penetrate. No company is going to readily make an investment in that area to get those people reliable internet to allow them a chance to use an all electric currency. History has also proven that the government (Federal/State/Local, outside of the township which has no power) doesn't really care about making these people's lives better (there is a washed out section of the dirt road that has been impossible to pass since 2001 and the army corp of engineers won't let any work be done on it because of a disturbace to some rare salamander living in the spring that caused the slip). For people like this, living at 1/2 the poverty income threshold in many cases, there is no access to these currencies and as fucked as our government is it will not ditch the paper currency that these people and I'm sure a million others can't live without.
It won't be quiet, bitcoin is being attacked like crazy in the media as we speak. The amount of nonsense in the news, Elon Musk, etc. These are, imo, coordinated attacks by governments to keep the price down and scare people away for the short term. That said, I believe that governments are already quietly accumulating and we'll see a smaller government announce it as their reserve currency within a couple years. The US itself is sitting on at least 70k bitcoin they've had for years.
But at no point in human history has humanity had a tool like bitcoin, which doesn't need anyone's permission to operate. It's fully opt-in and there isn't really much any single government can do to stop it, aside from shutting down the internet itself. Even then, there are ways to interact with the network by satellite.
Given your hesitance I would recommend not buying any, or at the very least not buying very much. There is an absolutely massive rabbit hole to jump down to learn about bitcoin and the implications it has for the future. It took me a good year of research (books, youtube, etc) before it all started to click for me.
Like I've said numerous times, I'm making a big bet on humanity. I think bitcoin is the most important invention the world has ever seen and I'd like to think we will take advantage of it to free ourselves from the inevitable shackles of digital totalitarianism that is coming our way if we don't.
Fix the money, fix the world.
And yes, I know...
