If any reparations are to be paid it should be paid by the DNC.

Since I dont have a racist bone in my body, I find the whole situation ridiculous.  This country through a civil war and massive amounts of legislation has done enough to allow the mobility of a race of people to move away from this.

To suggest that as a collective whole....we have to atone for some sin that nobody alive had anything to do with is crazy.  This country will never move past slavery and racism because there are alot of people that dont want to.

Well, I think the first step would be to reach some sort of consensus within the group about which reparations would occur. As I showed, it's not going to be an easy thing to do. There is so much infighting already that I don't know how anybody else from the outside would be able to contribute with a reasonable lense.

Would any amount of funding for this be better spent fighting the slavery that is happening all over the world today?

posted by queencitybuckeye

Would any amount of funding for this be better spent fighting the slavery that is happening all over the world today?

Define slavery, you heretic!

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I get the argument for reparations, but I always feel it falls apart on how to do it. It also seems like an easy answer to a complex problem. Just giving cash to the descendants of slaves does not wash away our sins. There is also the insane complexity of how the payments would occur, for long, and what is the criteria. Once some people determine they are not qualified to receive payment, how will that go down in this age of social media and viral moments? Also, what is the exact amount to appease folks? A few hundred, a grand, more than that? Who determines this? A board? Who is on the board, and what is their makeup, etc., etc. 

I read Coats argument a years ago. He makes an impassioned case. But, it all falls apart on how exactly this occurs. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

I have one problem with your whole argument, you said "our sins". I owned zero slaves. My parents owned zero slaves. My grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-great grandparents were in Scotland during the Civil War.

There is not a single person alive right now that owned slaves, so it is not "our" sin, it was THEIR sin. The people who did it, no one else's.

Now, if you want to talk "reparations" for Jim Crow laws and mistreatments up until the 1960s (ish) then we can have a dialogue and who should pay what to whom.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

One of these things is not like the other one. I think relaxing our drug laws and releasing low-level, non-violent drug offenders would be a good start. Granted, I don't know exactly what percentage of those in for drugs are black, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it's as high as 80%.

posted by justincredible

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

One of these things is not like the other one. I think relaxing our drug laws and releasing low-level, non-violent drug offenders would be a good start. Granted, I don't know exactly what percentage of those in for drugs are black, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it's as high as 80%.

I don't think very many people are in FEDERAL prison just for marijuana.  There is a huge number of people who have been incarcerated for marijuana, but the vast majority served an average of two months in county jails.

posted by gut

I don't think very many people are in FEDERAL prison just for marijuana.  There is a huge number of people who have been incarcerated for marijuana, but the vast majority served an average of two months in county jails.

Okay, that's fine. How many of those that spend two months in county jail end up losing their jobs?

posted by justincredible

Okay, that's fine. How many of those that spend two months in county jail end up losing their jobs?

But that's not a federal issue.  Ann Arbor decriminalized marijuana 47 years ago, so local solutions have been available for a long time.

posted by jmog

I have one problem with your whole argument, you said "our sins". I owned zero slaves. My parents owned zero slaves. My grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-great grandparents were in Scotland during the Civil War.

 

There is not a single person alive right now that owned slaves, so it is not "our" sin, it was THEIR sin. The people who did it, no one else's.

 

Now, if you want to talk "reparations" for Jim Crow laws and mistreatments up until the 1960s (ish) then we can have a dialogue and who should pay what to whom.

Well, slavery is America's original sin. Yes, while previous generations dealt with part of it, the reparation arguments also focus on your last sentence, as the sin has not been forgiven or dealt with fully. That is why it is still our sin. I'm not fully on board with that as again, how do you quantify that? 

If the feds removed pot from schedule 1 it would make a big difference.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Well, slavery is America original sin. Yes, while previous generations dealt with part of it, the reparation arguments also focus on your last sentence, as the sin has not been forgiven or dealt with fully. That is why it is still our sin. I'm not fully on board with that as again, how do you quantify that? 

 

Maybe since we obliterated the Indians.....then gave them land to live on as reparations, maybe reparations for slavery could be just that easy, lets carve out Mississippi and Alabama and give it to the black population to do with it what they want.  Open some casinos would be a good start.

posted by jmog

There is not a single person alive right now that owned slaves, so it is not "our" sin, it was THEIR sin. The people who did it, no one else's.

Not to mention many payed for THEIR sins with THEIR lives or the lives of THEIR loved ones.

This is why this whole concept of defining people by something that occurred centuries ago is foolish.  This is why I jokingly refer to myself as a native American.  Which in all present day factual reality I am.  I don't feel at all guilty for something people did hundreds of years ago.

My family did not hit the US from England till 1730's.......they never lived in the south.  Never owned a slave and I had a family member die in the civil war.

So do I get reparations for him sacrificing his life to free the slaves?

Also how disgusting is it that the democrat party is still shamelessly using black Americans.  All of them know damn well reparations are not feasible.  Yet giving impoverished black Americans false hope and using them as props in their political shit show is just collateral damage in securing their political power.  Its a fucking farce and they all know it.  The sad thing is the people that have been duped into participating in this political theatre.

posted by jmog

I have one problem with your whole argument, you said "our sins". I owned zero slaves. My parents owned zero slaves. My grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-great grandparents were in Scotland during the Civil War.

 

There is not a single person alive right now that owned slaves, so it is not "our" sin, it was THEIR sin. The people who did it, no one else's.

 

Now, if you want to talk "reparations" for Jim Crow laws and mistreatments up until the 1960s (ish) then we can have a dialogue and who should pay what to whom.

Exactly.  The victims (slaves) are dead; the slave owners are dead; the people who sold the slaves into slavery are dead.  Five generations have since passed since they all died.  It is asinine we are even having this discussion.  As for some type of assistance to cover 20th century discrimination practices, we have just finished spending about $3 trillion in assistance over the last 50 years; if that was not enough, I am sorry.  Time to move on – period.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

That is why it is still our sin. I'm not fully on board with that as again, how do you quantify that? 

Are we also going to pretend that it gets forgiven after someone is given a few grand? 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Well, slavery is America's original sin. Yes, while previous generations dealt with part of it, the reparation arguments also focus on your last sentence, as the sin has not been forgiven or dealt with fully. That is why it is still our sin. I'm not fully on board with that as again, how do you quantify that? 

 

So if I give them money, the sin goes away?  That is blackmail, not forgiveness.

Good God.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Well, slavery is America's original sin. Yes, while previous generations dealt with part of it, the reparation arguments also focus on your last sentence, as the sin has not been forgiven or dealt with fully. That is why it is still our sin. I'm not fully on board with that as again, how do you quantify that? 

 

You don't. You continue the great progress that has been made and get past the notion that sins against the innocent can be repaid via sins against innocents in some sort of "equal but opposite direction".

posted by queencitybuckeye

You don't. You continue the great progress that has been made and get past the notion that sins against the innocent can be repaid via sins against innocents in some sort of "equal but opposite direction".

I'm with you, which is why I do not support the reparations argument. It is too backward looking and misses the point. I understand the argument, but instead we should, as a county, work toward eliminating any perceived or real institutional racism that exists in the country.  It is a long goal, but hell, one where we owe previous generations to keep going to address what was our original sin. 

I think Justin brought up one item that would surely help. 

If Trump were smart, which, well...he'd push hard for removing marijuana from schedule I. It would be a slam-dunk positive for him, take the wind out of the sails of the democrats leading up to the election. There would be zero negative consequences for him. None.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I'm with you, which is why I do not support the reparations argument. It is too backward looking and misses the point. I understand the argument, but instead we should, as a county, work toward eliminating any perceived or real institutional racism that exists in the country.  It is a long goal, but hell, one where we owe previous generations to keep going to address what was our original sin. 

I think Justin brought up one item that would surely help. 

I agree with Justin's take as well, probably for somewhat different reasons.

Not that you meant it this way, but it needs to be pointed out that "our original sin" was not created by us, nor were we the worst offenders in the history of the world.. What we are is the country where racism isn't dead, but where the most progress has been made in that direction, and it ain't even close.

posted by iclfan2

Are we also going to pretend that it gets forgiven after someone is given a few grand? 

a few grand....I was thinking $500.  

posted by queencitybuckeye

I agree with Justin's take as well, probably for somewhat different reasons.

Not that you meant it this way, but it needs to be pointed out that "our original sin" was not created by us, nor were we the worst offenders in the history of the world.. What we are is the country where racism isn't dead, but where the most progress has been made in that direction, and it ain't even close.

Sure. I was referring to our as America's history. The collective country as a whole. It is part of our past. It is our sin, just like our victories in the Revolution, WWI, WWII, saving the free world etc are our bright spots.