posted by gut

Sure, this is anecdotal but probably not surprising:  A friend's mom was in the hospital a few months ago.  There was a couple there from Ontario to have surgery....said healthcare in Canada is a mess, that the hospitals are filthy and overrun (apparently the homeless come in and use the healthcare system for shelter in the winter).  So obviously they're paying out-of-pocket to get quality care in the US.

but how many millions of people in America cant get said surgery bc they don't have insurance and definetely can't afford it without insurance?

posted by gut

Sure, this is anecdotal but probably not surprising:  A friend's mom was in the hospital a few months ago.  There was a couple there from Ontario to have surgery....said healthcare in Canada is a mess, that the hospitals are filthy and overrun (apparently the homeless come in and use the healthcare system for shelter in the winter).  So obviously they're paying out-of-pocket to get quality care in the US.

These stories are fine, but the cast majority of Canadians prefer their system to an alternative that looked like the US. By many measure, Canadians are healthier than Americans. 

posted by Spock

The company that designed and tested the app 

The coal miners have to start somewhere.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

These stories are fine, but the cast majority of Canadians prefer their system to an alternative that looked like the US. By many measure, Canadians are healthier than Americans. 

Americans are extremely fat. We should all cover everyone else's unhealthy lifestyles. Screw that noise.

posted by justincredible

Americans are extremely fat. We should all cover everyone else's unhealthy lifestyles. Screw that noise.

What about the skinny ones who are just poor and aren't offered insurance? Do they meet your criteria for noise?

posted by kizer permanente

but how many millions of people in America cant get said surgery bc they don't have insurance and definetely can't afford it without insurance?

So your opinion is it should be lottery based?  If you have to go to the end of the line or can't get in, at all, in a timely fashion then just screw you?  That's a better system?!? 

The people actually paying for all that "free" healthcare don't deserve any extra benefit?  Because I can tell you what is going to happen in the US.  Everyone will be entitled to the same free, shitty healthcare.  And people with money will continue to get quality care, albeit at a much higher price.  It's people like you and me and most of the posters on this board who will be screwed getting priced out of the expensive private options.  But you won't realize this until it's far too late for you.

posted by Spock

Ok I am going out on a limb:

 

1.  This was complete incompetence in Iowa.

2.  The company that designed and tested the app has former Clinton and Romney campaign managers hands all over it.  They are setting up for a brokered convention by DNC and the DNC has no clue

3.  The DNC does have a clue and they are setting it up to rig the election against Somone.

4.  The DNC wants Iowa out.  They want to start the caucuses in another state.  So they rigged this on them.

Erm ... why?  It's just the caucus.


 

posted by gut

Sure, this is anecdotal but probably not surprising:  A friend's mom was in the hospital a few months ago.  There was a couple there from Ontario to have surgery....said healthcare in Canada is a mess, that the hospitals are filthy and overrun (apparently the homeless come in and use the healthcare system for shelter in the winter).  So obviously they're paying out-of-pocket to get quality care in the US.

I've heard similar from a few Canadian friends.  If it's something small that they go to their GP for, they prefer Canada's system, but if it's a major surgery or a specialist they need, they come to the US.

There is one exception who is really funny.  She's a dear friend, and when she's not talking politics, she's a lovely woman, but she thinks Canada shits gold, and she refuses to get medical treatment in the US, because she buys into the notion that the Canadian single-payer system is hilariously superior to the US system.  Well, a few months ago, she unfortunately found herself with a cancerous tumor.  Not being a hypocrite, she insisted on having her treatment in Canada, but the whole time, she complained about the condition of the hospital, the competence of the hospital staff, and the ridiculous (and they were) wait times.

Now, at no point has she come around to admitting that she might be better off being treated in the US, mostly because she's stubborn (she has more than enough money to cover it out of pocket), but it's funny to see her be such a champion for their healthcare system and yet do nothing but complain when she's using it.

posted by gut

So your opinion is it should be lottery based?  If you have to go to the end of the line or can't get in, at all, in a timely fashion then just screw you?  That's a better system?!? 

The people actually paying for all that "free" healthcare don't deserve any extra benefit?  Because I can tell you what is going to happen in the US.  Everyone will be entitled to the same free, shitty healthcare.  And people with money will continue to get quality care, albeit at a much higher price.  It's people like you and me and most of the posters on this board who will be screwed getting priced out of the expensive private options.  But you won't realize this until it's far too late for you.

 

So we hear this all the time... countries with socialized medicine just wait and die to see a doctor. Yet their mortality rates and quality of life rates are always higher than Americans... so someone isn't telling the truth. and it's always the other person. 

posted by kizer permanente

What about the skinny ones who are just poor and aren't offered insurance? Do they meet your criteria for noise?

Doesn't Medicaid exist for those circumstances?

posted by Spock

Ok I am going out on a limb:

 

1.  This was complete incompetence in Iowa.

2.  The company that designed and tested the app has former Clinton and Romney campaign managers hands all over it.  They are setting up for a brokered convention by DNC and the DNC has no clue

3.  The DNC does have a clue and they are setting it up to rig the election against Somone.

4.  The DNC wants Iowa out.  They want to start the caucuses in another state.  So they rigged this on them.

If 1 is true, the rest fall apart. 

I think 1 is the story. Iowa fucked this up all bad. You put too much stock into the thinking the DNC knows what they are doing. The DNC just got too cute. They tried to find a tech way to do this without training the people on the ground how to do it and failed to have a backup plan. They also kept tinkering with the process allowing for confusion and once things started to go wrong, they could not find a way to solve the problem on the fly. They just kept making it worse. 

posted by kizer permanente

So we hear this all the time... countries with socialized medicine just wait and die to see a doctor. Yet their mortality rates and quality of life rates are always higher than Americans... so someone isn't telling the truth. and it's always the other person. 

Exactly. There is a reason the vast majority of Canadians prefer their system. It's not to say it's perfect or that it is the model that would work here. But writing it off with anecdotal stories is a mistake. 

posted by kizer permanente

So we hear this all the time... countries with socialized medicine just wait and die to see a doctor. Yet their mortality rates and quality of life rates are always higher than Americans... so someone isn't telling the truth. and it's always the other person. 

I honestly think there's something to the low or non-existent cost of monitoring health and low-level treatment.  People in countries where a trip to the family doctor requires a budget augmentation for that month are less likely to go.  As such, they're less likely to catch things in early stages.

I honestly do think it has more to do with preventative care being used more frequently in those sorts of countries.

posted by kizer permanente

but how many millions of people in America cant get said surgery bc they don't have insurance and definetely can't afford it without insurance?

Using Columbus, Ohio as an example (because that's where I had both of my surgeries), the number of people you describe is zero. None. At least one major hospital system treats all without regard to ability to pay. Is this a one-off? Doubt it.

posted by justincredible

Doesn't Medicaid exist for those circumstances?

No b/c that's assuming only people who qualify for medicaid don't have insurance and/or cant afford medical costs. 

posted by queencitybuckeye

Using Columbus, Ohio as an example (because that's where I had both of my surgeries), the number of people you describe is zero. None. At least one major hospital system treats all without regard to ability to pay. Is this a one-off? Doubt it.

 

What health system is this? By law you're only required to stabilize someone, not perform surgery or any other medical care. And I've never heard of a health system that just says yeah come on in!

party of tolerance :)

As an aside... how do you support Pete Buttigieg and not know he's gay? Did she show up at last nights caucus and just picked someone? It's been mentioned just a few times. 

JFC. What a ding dong.

posted by majorspark

The coal miners have to start somewhere.

Boom

posted by kizer permanente

What health system is this? By law you're only required to stabilize someone, not perform surgery or any other medical care. And I've never heard of a health system that just says yeah come on in!

That is Mt Carmel's policy.

The voting app maker, Shadow, is comprised of a CEO, COO, CTO, and sales manager who were all Clinton campaign team members.  They have the uncanny ability to make emails disappear, votes disappear, delegates disappear, election results disappear, and people disappear. 

posted by queencitybuckeye

That is Mt Carmel's policy.

So if I was diagnosed with lung cancer, told I needed surgery and chemo, but didn't carry insurance, I could just drive over to Mt. Carmel, present myself and receive the cancer treatment I need?  

I don't think so. 

That stupid caucus-goer belongs on the WTF thread. 

posted by justincredible

JFC. What a ding dong.

No kidding. I live the "no one ever told me" like it was a secret and she deserved to be let in on it. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

So if I was diagnosed with lung cancer, told I needed surgery and chemo, but didn't carry insurance, I could just drive over to Mt. Carmel, present myself and receive the cancer treatment I need?  

I don't think so. 

You will ultimately receive treatment, and then when the bill comes you will declare bankruptcy.  Because if what you said was true (only treated if you have the money), then there would be no medical bankruptcies.  Correct?

Happens every day.  Most people who are worth anything, could have afforded insurance but chose to spend their money on other things.  Those who aren't worth anything don't really have anything to lose.  And there's a relatively small group of people who are[were] rejected with pre-existing conditions.  Which is an issue that could have been solved much more simply.