posted by gut
I disagree. If someone is known not to make stuff up or lie, then they are credible and don't need to defend everything they say, especially things that should be "common knowledge" to people informed about a subject.
I should clarify that I mean fact vs. opinion. I'm not going to google for links to prove every fact you're too ignorant to know.
The problem is that the person deciding whether or not to source their facts can't be the same one deciding if they, themselves, are known not to make stuff up. If that's the case, nobody will source anything, because we all tend to think of ourselves that way.
Certainly, I'm not saying this regarding value statements. Those are the sorts of things that necessarily have to be articulated on a conceptual basis, so frankly, sources themselves don't provide a lot of validity.
But there's a reason evidence is considered the responsibility of the one making the affirmative claim. Now, if we both know it to be true, it's not like you have to source every little thing, but if you claim something is factually accurate, you should be able to demonstrate it as such, which is something that does require sources if it's rooted in hard sciences, math, or historical documentation.
posted by gut
That's why I generally avoid those exchanges. If you can't craft an argument with your own words, citing relevant facts, then you really have nothing to add to the debate.
Well, I can't really craft a logical framework to demonstrate the factual accuracy of the affirmation that Millard Fillmore was the 13th president of the US. That's the sort of thing that requires a historical source to confirm.
If people take me at my word, then there is no need to prove my affirmative claim. If someone disagrees or doesn't believe me, there isn't some rhetorical argument to which I can appeal. There are historical sources to which I can appeal.
But in general, I do try to avoid those discussion IRL as well, because they too quickly devolve into the above, even when I try to intentionally use sources that they, themselves, will accept.
