posted by gut

Maybe because fear is a main component of terrorism, and maximal impact means using the gun so many have been conditioned to fear as a "weapon of war".  There's some advantage to more ammo in a clip and easy exchange, but when you aren't encountering resistance it really doesn't matter.  I think a standard glock can hold 16 rounds, and extended clips are available.  An AR ban, which was already tried and failed once, really won't do shit.

Also, the guns being legally purchased is a red herring.  Do you really believe there is a gun law that will stop someone willing to die committing a mass shooting from figuring out how to get a gun?

On a related note, I think a plot was just foiled involving an AK-47...I'm guessing it was not purchased legally.

They’re called magazines, not clips. 

posted by jmog

But you have no idea what type of gun I “need” and quite frankly it’s none of anyones business what type of gun I have or need.

Oh, I do. One within the limits of the law that does not pose a threat to society as a whole. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

The assault weapons ban? It did not fail, it was allowed to expire in 2005.

Once it did, we saw the growth in AR style weapons.

It did nothing to curb gun violence.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

But there are sickos everywhere.  Why do the ones here commit school shootings so much more frequently.

I don't know.  Why weren't they doing this 40 years ago when guns were much easier to get?  Other countries have guns and don't have this issue.

The number of people killed by drunk drivers annually DWARFS those in mass shootings and wrongful "murder" by cop, and yet no one talks about banning alcohol or cars.  So maybe the problem isn't actually the gun, which makes one of the parties politicizing this at every opportunity clearly in the wrong.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

In my opinion, no one needs a semi automatic pistol or rifle for their private use.  But like abortion, I don’t believe the two sides of this topic will ever be reconciled.  So a solution must be sought elsewhere.

That’s just an asinine belief. What do you do when the criminals who don’t give a fuck about laws come calling? Get on your knees? Confiscation is never happening, so we are way past that. 

posted by queencitybuckeye

Also I'm not sure where rights got limited to our needs as opposed to our wants that we work hard to afford.

Hopefully not too hard. This fucking loser bought two rifles and a shitload of ammo on whatever income an 18 year old dropout makes. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

The assault weapons ban? It did not fail, it was allowed to expire in 2005.

Once it did, we saw the growth in AR style weapons.

The styling of the weapon really has nothing to do with it.  Oooh, but it LOOKS so much scarier.

And yes, failing to reduce gun homicides makes it a failure.

Do you really think banning AR-style guns is going to make a difference?  If you don't - and all the data says you shouldn't - then why keep bringing it up?

posted by queencitybuckeye

I sure thought I needed mine when the local heroin user and girlfriend set up in the drive back to our house (1/2 mile from the road), then came up to the house to try to hit us up for money, then were really hesitant to be on their way. It very much seemed like a possible matter of life and death.

I wasn’t there, but I would imagine a shotgun would have done just fine

posted by iclfan2

Confiscation is never happening, so we are way past that. 

Just the usual regurgitation of leftwing talking points without much thought.  Even if you could confiscate everything, guns of all types would be readily available in the black market for anyone willing to break the law.  And, well, if you're willing to murder people gun laws probably aren't standing in your way.

The Dems know this.  Most politicians are not as stupid as they pretend to be.  But as long as you can demonize Repubs for not going along with your non-solutions maybe you can get some voters to voluntarily disenfranchise themselves.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

In my opinion, no one needs a semi automatic pistol or rifle for their private use.  But like abortion, I don’t believe the two sides of this topic will ever be reconciled.  So a solution must be sought elsewhere.

You realize you’re statement would eliminate 90% of all guns, since nearly all of them are semi-automatic…basically everything but shotguns and revolvers. 

posted by gut

I don't know.  Why weren't they doing this 40 years ago when guns were much easier to get?  Other countries have guns and don't have this issue.

The number of people killed by drunk drivers annually DWARFS those in mass shootings and wrongful "murder" by cop, and yet no one talks about banning alcohol or cars.  So maybe the problem isn't actually the gun, which makes one of the parties politicizing this at every opportunity clearly in the wrong.

Yes, other ways of dying are more common.  But as a society, we are especially horrified to see little kids killed in a place they should be safe. 

And things like drunk driving are more similar between countries whereas this is so different.  That tells me something is significantly different.   

posted by iclfan2

It did nothing to curb gun violence.

Umm no. Gun violence has escalated since 2005. 

posted by jmog

You realize you’re statement would eliminate 90% of all guns, since nearly all of them are semi-automatic…basically everything but shotguns and revolvers. 

Yes I do.  I also have no expectation it will happen.  It’s just a personal opinion.

posted by gut

The styling of the weapon really has nothing to do with it.  Oooh, but it LOOKS so much scarier.

And yes, failing to reduce gun homicides makes it a failure.

Do you really think banning AR-style guns is going to make a difference?  If you don't - and all the data says you shouldn't - then why keep bringing it up?

It's one tool out of many to help reduce these tragedies. 

posted by iclfan2

That’s just an asinine belief. What do you do when the criminals who don’t give a fuck about laws come calling? Get on your knees? Confiscation is never happening, so we are way past that. 

The instances of people actually stopping a legitimate crime with their personal weapon are statistically minuscule.   That said, it’s just my opinion, not something I think is feasible.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Umm no. Gun violence has escalated since 2005. 

With what guns? Please show me the correlation. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

The instances of people actually stopping a legitimate crime with their personal weapon are statistically minuscule.   That said, it’s just my opinion, not something I think is feasible.

It is not minuscule. It just isn’t covered. Y’all are all pretending the majority of gun violence isn’t in inner cities. Almost none use “assault weapons”.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

And things like drunk driving are more similar between countries whereas this is so different.  That tells me something is significantly different.   

I don't disagree something is different.  I just don't see evidence that guns are the cause.

I'm pretty sure America has a much bigger issue with alcohol relative to Europe, as well.  Obesity,,,,,We could go on and on, and I'm pretty sure the reason is cultural and not the food, beer or guns.

I don’t really want to read all the way through this thread but the symptoms of all school shootings are the same:

A mentally ill person had access to a firearm.  It’s easier to remove the mentally ill from society than guns.  

posted by ptown_trojans_1

It's one tool out of many to help reduce these tragedies. 

Where's your evidence?  I'm sorry I don't support laws that haven't been shown to work, can't be expected to work, and in practice are unlikely to work.  No one should, but but but "we have to do SOMETHING".

https://abcnews.go.com/US/understanding-1994-assault-weapons-ban-ended/story?id=65546858

I don't know why you continue to cite "facts" that are easily disproven with a 30 second google search, or why you then continually move the goalposts after being called on it.  But it comes across as a partisan simply regurgitating talking points.

Note gun deaths have been increasing, but because of suicides.  In the 10 years after the lift of the AR ban, homicides appear to be relatively flat, if not down slightly.

https://gun-control.procon.org/us-gun-deaths-by-year/

posted by iclfan2

It is not minuscule. It just isn’t covered. Y’all are all pretending the majority of gun violence isn’t in inner cities. Almost none use “assault weapons”.

Again, the non-gang related mass shootings in this country total a few hundred victims per year.  Your kid is more likely to die from the flu than a mass shooting.  I wonder why we don't hear demands to force flu vaccines on kids?

Sure, we don't have the numbers on how many crimes/murders are prevented by a "good guy with a gun".  But, obviously, it doesn't have to be very many to believe people have a right to self-defense.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

That said, it’s just my opinion, not something I think is feasible.

Hmmmm....Seems odd to whine about people that don't support gun bans that you yourself admit aren't feasible.

If the speed limit were 10mph, we could eliminate virtually all traffic deaths.  But it's not something I think is feasible.

Something missed in these discussions comes from Bastiat's "What is seen and what is not seen". When a tragedy happens, we naturally focus on that tragedy and the downside of firearms ("what is seen"). What gets lost are the daily benefits ("what is not seen"). Defensive gun uses (DGUs) dwarf gun violence incidents, not even close. Not. Remotely. Close. It's a "be careful what you wish for" situation when you're willing to take from the good guys for some gain against the bad guys.

Can we circle back to how could we prevent someone like this from (legally) buying what he did? Can't it raise some red flags somewhere that someone who literally just turned 18 immediately buys two rifles and 375 rounds of ammunition. Oh, he's a high school dropout, he was bullied a lot, has had police at his house numerous times for incidents with his mother who has kicked him out. Maybe we need to investigate this further and he shouldn't have these guns right away. If he goes onto steal one or print one then whatever. I recognize that cat is out of the bag already. But could we have at least made it a little more difficult for him along the way?

posted by ptown_trojans_1

It's one tool out of many to help reduce these tragedies. 

If you believe banning ARs will reduce gun violence you don’t understand what guns/rifles really are. There are 100s of hunting rifles that have the exact same capabilities (rounds, firing rate, muzzle velocity, etc) but they don’t look scary. The literal difference between an AR and a hunting rifle is one is black and scary looking and one is brown/camo color.