Not sure how he could afford it either….but also numerous kids at my school live in very poor homes where no one has a job, yet they have $1100 phones and some all the video game systems.

Also…he’s willing to kill a large number of children…then he’s willing to steal from grandma, neighbor or workplace. Wacko’s will always find a way.

posted by Fletch

I am having a hard time finding anything in the Constitution about drinking alcohol. 

Its specifically mentioned in the 18th and 21st amendments.

The 9th amendment states that many rights not specifically mentioned in the Constitution exist.

This is why you have alcohol being brought up in this thread.  The feds coerced the states into enacting age 21 restrictions by threatening to withhold highway funds.  It's a dirty way of getting around the Constitution.  

Like others have said if the feds force laws that prevent an 18yr old from buying a beer because they are deemed too immature yet still retain laws on the books that can compel an 18yr old to make life or death decisions on some battlefield possibly a thousand miles from home.  That doesn't square.

States should take the lead on this.  I would be ok with a probationary period for< 21 yr olds who want to purchase firearms.  Possibly types of firearms, proof of training, passing of general gun safety training.  Kids just don't get into a car at 16 and drive.  The feds need to stay out of this level of regulation.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Based upon the definition of a “mass shooting” used in this article, I don’t doubt the statistics.  Where the US has no competitor though is in instances of someone going into a school and shooting students.  That specific crime is very unique to us.

To me it’s got nothing to do with it being a top cause of death.  Most everyone knows a kid is much more likely to die in a car wreck than in a school shooting.  It’s the principle of the matter - that a school should be safe.  When these crimes happen, they take away that comfort.  It’s not that they are likely to happen everywhere.  It’s that there seems to be no predictor as to where or when they will happen.  

So your own admission then, since we don’t lead the world in mass shootings just in school shootings it has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with something in the psychology of the nation.

So no reason for more gun control, we need to figure out why mass shooters are targeting schools and not other places like in other nations.

Another issue to all of this is how little other gun crimes are enforced, due to liberal DA’s and city governments. Everyone wants to stop gun violence but people are routinely let off for various gun crimes, including straw purchases. Maybe cracking down on existing crime would help gun violence? It’s clear we have an under incarceration problem in this country. 

Also, guess who wanted to get police out of schools… 

In 2020, four Democrats, Sens. Chris Murphy, Elizabeth Warren and Reps. Ilhan Omar and Ayanna Pressley pushed for legislation to remove police officers from schools and replace them with social workers.

It was called the “Counseling Not Criminalization” Act. pic.twitter.com/UBByfra0gh

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) May 29, 2022

posted by jmog

So your own admission then, since we don’t lead the world in mass shootings just in school shootings it has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with something in the psychology of the nation.

So no reason for more gun control, we need to figure out why mass shooters are targeting schools and not other places like in other nations.

I didn’t say any of that.  A “mass shooting” could be - and often is - a gunfight between criminals.  Bad as that is, that’s not what I’m referring to.  

I don’t know about the “mass shooting” statistics from Superman’s article.  What I do know is we have a unique problem with school / church / other soft target shootings the rest of the developed world does not seem to have (at anything close to our level).  

Kids with animus towards other kids shoot up schools because that’s where the kids that they hold the animus towards are. The same place they developed their animosity to begin with. Sometimes teachers are included.

posted by Gardens35

Kids with animus towards other kids shoot up schools because that’s where the kids that they hold the animus towards are. The same place they developed their animosity to begin with. Sometimes teachers are included.

Good point. That and these shooters have probably accepted they’re dying today. They made peace with it, and they want to cause as much destruction and tragedy on the way out. 

Similarly, the guy who shot up the Taiwanese church a couple weeks ago was motivated by Taiwan-China tensions. It’s often personal. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I didn’t say any of that.  A “mass shooting” could be - and often is - a gunfight between criminals.  Bad as that is, that’s not what I’m referring to.  

I don’t know about the “mass shooting” statistics from Superman’s article.  What I do know is we have a unique problem with school / church / other soft target shootings the rest of the developed world does not seem to have (at anything close to our level).  

Definition of a mass shooting is 4 or more victims hit by a bullet. As far as I understand it.

You still answered it as no need for gun control as our problem is unique to soft targets like schools/churches/etc. If it was just guns or a specific type of guns the locations would be random.

So how do we stop the soft targets from being targeted?

posted by jmog

Definition of a mass shooting is 4 or more victims hit by a bullet. As far as I understand it.

You still answered it as no need for gun control as our problem is unique to soft targets like schools/churches/etc. If it was just guns or a specific type of guns the locations would be random.

So how do we stop the soft targets from being targeted?

I didn’t answer no need for gun control.  I didn’t answer anything.  I don’t know the right fix for this is.  I  just don’t understand why this happens here with this frequency.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I didn’t answer no need for gun control.  I didn’t answer anything.  I don’t know the right fix for this is.  I  just don’t understand why this happens here with this frequency.  

The way you answered leaves the only logical solution doesn’t include more gun control. If it’s not the prevalence of guns that cause mass shootings, by the statistics, and it’s only a location problem in the US…then gun control won’t change anything.

What else could be gleaned from acknowledging that we don’t have a mass shooting problem compared to the rest of the world, just the locations of the mass shootings?

posted by jmog

The way you answered leaves the only logical solution doesn’t include more gun control. If it’s not the prevalence of guns that cause mass shootings, by the statistics, and it’s only a location problem in the US…then gun control won’t change anything.

What else could be gleaned from acknowledging that we don’t have a mass shooting problem compared to the rest of the world, just the locations of the mass shootings?

I didn’t say it wasn’t a problem with guns.  I didn’t site any statistics, Superman’s article did.

I’m trying to contribute to tgg by e spirit of the thread, not engage in some “gotcha” debate.  I think we have a huge problem with guns in this country.  But I also know that the right to have guns is a hill a large chunk of the population is willing to die upon.  So they aren’t going away.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I didn’t say it wasn’t a problem with guns.  I didn’t site any statistics, Superman’s article did.

I’m trying to contribute to tgg by e spirit of the thread, not engage in some “gotcha” debate.  I think we have a huge problem with guns in this country.  But I also know that the right to have guns is a hill a large chunk of the population is willing to die upon.  So they aren’t going away.

I just don’t understand. Statistics show we are not “the only” country with a mass shooting problem, matter of fact we aren’t even near the top of the list. You acknowledge this.

I acknowledge, with you, that we are at the top of the list with regards to school shootings in particular.

Those 2 facts lead to a logical understanding that the gun(s) is(are) not the problem and it’s something in the psyche/media coverage/etc of the country.

posted by jmog

Those 2 facts lead to a logical understanding that the gun(s) is(are) not the problem and it’s something in the psyche/media coverage/etc of the country.

Because it's an emotional response that "we have to do something!", but only if that "something" includes gun control even if that isn't the root issue.  People are hurting, and they need "something" even if it's placebo.  Until the next time, then "muhr placebo!!!!"

Otherwise, sign me up for a "war on guns".  I'm sure it will be about as successful as the war on drugs.  Then drugs & guns can be my 2032 libertarian platform...

posted by jmog

I just don’t understand. Statistics show we are not “the only” country with a mass shooting problem, matter of fact we aren’t even near the top of the list. You acknowledge this.

I acknowledge, with you, that we are at the top of the list with regards to school shootings in particular.

Those 2 facts lead to a logical understanding that the gun(s) is(are) not the problem and it’s something in the psyche/media coverage/etc of the country.

I didn’t acknowledge it  I mentioned that it had been cited by Superman.  Statistics also show that the US far outpaces the rest of the world in terms of dead via gun violence.  I hold the opinion that if semiautomatic guns were outlawed, school shootings would lower in frequency eventually (may take a long time).  I also believe such a law is not in the cards.  So the best option I’ve heard is that schools in our country will require heavily armed guards.  

posted by iclfan2

Another issue to all of this is how little other gun crimes are enforced, due to liberal DA’s and city governments. Everyone wants to stop gun violence but people are routinely let off for various gun crimes, including straw purchases. Maybe cracking down on existing crime would help gun violence? It’s clear we have an under incarceration problem in this country. 

Also, guess who wanted to get police out of schools… 

In 2020, four Democrats, Sens. Chris Murphy, Elizabeth Warren and Reps. Ilhan Omar and Ayanna Pressley pushed for legislation to remove police officers from schools and replace them with social workers.

It was called the “Counseling Not Criminalization” Act. pic.twitter.com/UBByfra0gh

— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) May 29, 2022

posted by Heretic
Seemed with this particular incident, the police wanted the police out of schools. At least while there was danger afoot!

Ha yea, I already called them pussies. Ironically, police not working to protect the vulnerable population is an argument for MORE gun ownership. 

If the left wants to try to pass anything, find a freakin gun expert and employ them. Every time something happens, they try to talk with zero knowledge on firearms and end up looking silly. Nothing in this quote makes sense. 

Biden’s full quote on .22 vs 9mm ammo: 

"The .22 caliber bullet will lodge in the lungs and we can get it out. A 9 mm bullet blows the lung out of the body. The idea of a high caliber weapon, there is no rationale for it in terms of self-protection, hunting."

— Charlie Spiering (@charliespiering) May 30, 2022

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I didn’t acknowledge it  I mentioned that it had been cited by Superman.  Statistics also show that the US far outpaces the rest of the world in terms of dead via gun violence.  I hold the opinion that if semiautomatic guns were outlawed, school shootings would lower in frequency eventually (may take a long time).  I also believe such a law is not in the cards.  So the best option I’ve heard is that schools in our country will require heavily armed guards.  

Only because our country is the only one that counts suicide and accidental shootings in the “gun violence” statistics. If we count it the same as the rest of the world, just murders/killings then we are not near the highest per capita.

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This rhetoric is why no one trusts the democrats to not go all out on banning all guns. I’m still waiting to hear from some of you lefties how not securing the border resulting in thousands of fentanyl deaths doesn’t need changed, nor does defunding special police who only look for illegal firearms, but somehow scary gun laws need changed. Try enforcing actual laws before adding more that only hurt law abiding citizens. Doing something just to do something isn’t a plan. 

Rep. Mondaire Jones (D-NY):

"You will not stop us from passing [gun control]. If the filibuster obstructs us, we will abolish it. If the Supreme Court objects, we will expand. We will not rest until we've taken weapons of war out of our communities." pic.twitter.com/0x3t1aJXBn

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) June 2, 2022

posted by iclfan2

This rhetoric is why no one trusts the democrats to not go all out on banning all guns. I’m still waiting to hear from some of you lefties how not securing the border resulting in thousands of fentanyl deaths doesn’t need changed, nor does defunding special police who only look for illegal firearms, but somehow scary gun laws need changed. Try enforcing actual laws before adding more that only hurt law abiding citizens. Doing something just to do something isn’t a plan. 

Rep. Mondaire Jones (D-NY):

"You will not stop us from passing [gun control]. If the filibuster obstructs us, we will abolish it. If the Supreme Court objects, we will expand. We will not rest until we've taken weapons of war out of our communities." pic.twitter.com/0x3t1aJXBn

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) June 2, 2022

Maybe don't mention illegal gun task force with We Own the City just finishing...

I don't know, maybe one idea is we could bring back a waiting period of certain firearms. The guy in Tulsa bought an AR15 style the day before shooting up the hospital.

Also, quoting one house member is dumb. That one member has the same power as someone crazy on the right. 

Many cities cancelled special task forces on guns. And many jurisdictions let people with gun offenses go. So either prosecute people, regardless of race (we all know that’s why they stopped), or stop with the hysterical we must do something trash. So the guy in Tulsa or Uvalde wait 3 days, then what? No one has proven a law would stop 90% of these shootings. And 90% of  “mass shootings” happen in the places y’all ignore. After the Covid overreach, I don’t blame anyone not wanting to work with the government on their absolute clown overreach. And the border portion is extra laughable. Way more Americans die of drugs from there than illegal guns. But ho hum.

posted by iclfan2

Many cities cancelled special task forces on guns. And many jurisdictions let people with gun offenses go. So either prosecute people, regardless of race (we all know that’s why they stopped), or stop with the hysterical we must do something trash. So the guy in Tulsa or Uvalde wait 3 days, then what? No one has proven a law would stop 90% of these shootings. And 90% of  “mass shootings” happen in the places y’all ignore. After the Covid overreach, I don’t blame anyone not wanting to work with the government on their absolute clown overreach. And the border portion is extra laughable. Way more Americans die of drugs from there than illegal guns. But ho hum.

Apparently you didn't understood my comment. The Baltimore task force was corrupt as hell and now they are sitting in federal prison. Just watch We Own This City. 

How about a 10-15 day waiting period for non handguns? Would it have stopped this guy, unknown. But, it may have deterred him or limited the damage. He still may have shot up the place, but only with a handgun.

Having someone wait a period of time before purchasing a deadly weapon that can kill many seems like a reasonable idea. We used to have something like that back in the day.