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Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football

  • dover2092
    sherm03;566582 wrote: People are seriously considering changing the rules and affecting every team in the state because of Mooney and Ursuline?! That's absolutely absurd.

    And I've asked this before and haven't gotten an answer. Let's say Mooney and Ursuline each move up...and they continue to go deep in the playoffs every year. What's next? Do they have to go with a higher multiplier? Where does it end?

    you know, I have to agree, good point.
  • sherm03
    dover2092;566626 wrote:you know, I have to agree, good point.

    Well this seems like a great time for me to go to bed then.

    Looking forward to picking this up again in the morning.

    Best of luck to Dover tomorrow night.

    Go Cards!
  • dover2092
    sherm03;566636 wrote:Well this seems like a great time for me to go to bed then.

    Looking forward to picking this up again in the morning.

    Best of luck to Dover tomorrow night.

    Go Cards!

    Thanks - and Dover will need every bit of that good luck to meet Mooney.
  • Classyposter58
    coyotes22;566614 wrote:So, that settles it,,,,,,,,,, I have it!!!!!

    We dont need separate playoffs for ALL the Privates in the state!!!

    JUST Ursuline and Mooney!!!! Each year, they play a best of 7 for their own championship, while the rest of us play in the playoffs!!!!!

    :D

    Throw Kettering Alter in there too. Those guys just don't lose in D4 and will probably win again for the 3rd year in a row after winning tonight. Might as well just make D4 a bowl system as long as Alter is there
  • redstreak one
    Since 2000, not counting Division 1 a private school has played for a championship in 5 divisions 40 times out of a total 100 times. There have been 100 teams playing for a championship in the state finals, 40 have been private. Of those, Mooney and Ursuline account for 10 so that means 30 other privates have also particicpated. Private schools have won 21 of those 50 championships, not counting division 1 so what argument are you going to use now?
  • Thinthickbigred
    I want to appoligize to some younger people who I may have offended ........
    If a private school wants to give a child from any background a free education ,I think it is comendable especially if the public school system is poor.... However I would hope that some of these schools give the same opportunity with kids that may be good in areas that are not directly affecting the money coffers of that institution. .......My real issue is basically that public schools cannot govern by the same rules for the fact that it causes an uproar among fellow public school districts that they are boardering. .. It is the double standard that the Public schools give each other . While kids switch public school districts all the time because of the academics, but when a child that switches happens to be a good football player ,all the fingers start pointing. It really isnt the private schools that I have an issue with ,although It would be nice for them to give a not so wealthy school girl of a different faith a free scholarship more often ..... I think the whole system is morrally bankrupt on both sides. But the private schools I have no say unless I send my child to that school . Ok . I understand that ...football is a cash cow for all schools that do well in it . It pays for all the other sports. if your a public school and your football team does well .your school levies get passed easier . All Id like to see happen is public schools be able to openly recruit to anybody they want . By law I want this ..........................................If not that way then very good private schools in football should be moved up in class by two divisions. That way if a school that boarders a division cant skate...again I want to appologize to some younger people who I may have offended I should have been more sensitive.
  • Thinthickbigred
    sherm03;566174 wrote:They must have just taken the kids who are good football players, and "ran out of space" for the kids who were not good enough athletes.

    My nephew isnt a good football player but he is an honor role student



    Before you go and get all pissy...that comment is completely sarcastic. But now can you see how ridiculous that claim is when it is made against private schools?

    My nephew isnt a good football player but he is a good student .. He got in . He lives in another city
  • Thinthickbigred
    My mother wanted to send my sister to catholic school ,but we are not catholic ,so it would have cost double the going rate of a catholic student ...True story ..She went to Steubenville public schools ...
  • Con_Alma
    Do you know why your mother wanted a Catholic school for your sister??
  • Al Bundy
    Thinthickbigred;566743 wrote:I want to appoligize to some younger people who I may have offended ........
    If a private school wants to give a child from any background a free education ,I think it is comendable especially if the public school system is poor.... However I would hope that some of these schools give the same opportunity with kids that may be good in areas that are not directly affecting the money coffers of that institution. .......My real issue is basically that public schools cannot govern by the same rules for the fact that it causes an uproar among fellow public school districts that they are boardering. .. It is the double standard that the Public schools give each other . While kids switch public school districts all the time because of the academics, but when a child that switches happens to be a good football player ,all the fingers start pointing. It really isnt the private schools that I have an issue with ,although It would be nice for them to give a not so wealthy school girl of a different faith a free scholarship more often ..... I think the whole system is morrally bankrupt on both sides. But the private schools I have no say unless I send my child to that school . Ok . I understand that ...football is a cash cow for all schools that do well in it . It pays for all the other sports. if your a public school and your football team does well .your school levies get passed easier . All Id like to see happen is public schools be able to openly recruit to anybody they want . By law I want this ..........................................If not that way then very good private schools in football should be moved up in class by two divisions. That way if a school that boarders a division cant skate...again I want to appologize to some younger people who I may have offended I should have been more sensitive.
    There are many many girls and boys who do not play football who get financial aid at Catholic schools. Much of it is based on financial need. There are also programs where parents can work at the school to help towards the tuition cost. Youngstown is a failing school district, so students from Youngstown City Schools can use a voucher to attend Ursuline or Mooney. Many students use that option for better academic options and just to be in a safer environment. Youngstown City Schools have had many problems that have become worse since they consolidated down to two schools. Youngstown has always had good football. Chaney was always in the mix as recemtly as the early part of this decade, but many students who would choose Chaney (or one of the other public schools in the past) no longer feel safe going there. The majority of voucher kids do not play football.
  • Thinthickbigred
    @con_alma^^^^^^^ Its been a long time ago ......I dont know for sure . I just know she looked into it and then was told the cost would be double .. My thing is if she were a boy and could carry the mail at 4.5 a clip then I think that price would have gone down to ZERO...I understand they need to make money because the state doesnt cover them . They have to do what they have to do ... It can appear unethical at times .. Atleast in college a female can earn an athletic scholarship ......In high school they dont because it is not feasable....MONEY MONEY MONEY ...and the Catholic church ...... Another discussion huh... When they stop punishing public schools for recruiting viotations I will quit complaining . Lets just be fair to all the schools.....It is highly possible that 4 catholic schools are going to win championships this year and they could sweep it ..Now what is the % of catholic schools to public schools...
  • Thinthickbigred
    Al Bundy;566752 wrote:There are many many girls and boys who do not play football who get financial aid at Catholic schools. Much of it is based on financial need. There are also programs where parents can work at the school to help towards the tuition cost. Youngstown is a failing school district, so students from Youngstown City Schools can use a voucher to attend Ursuline or Mooney. Many students use that option for better academic options and just to be in a safer environment. Youngstown City Schools have had many problems that have become worse since they consolidated down to two schools. Youngstown has always had good football. Chaney was always in the mix as recemtly as the early part of this decade, but many students who would choose Chaney (or one of the other public schools in the past) no longer feel safe going there. The majority of voucher kids do not play football.

    If they help the entire community and not just themselves that is applaudable and I believe that they do . I do not hate either school I like Youngstown I really do . We are practically neighbors and our areas are the same type of people.....
  • Al Bundy
    Thinthickbigred;566755 wrote:If they help the entire community and not just themselves that is applaudable and I believe that they do . I do not hate either school I like Youngstown I really do . We are practically neighbors and our areas are the same type of people.....
    I always root for eastern Ohio teams once finals come around. I like going to Harding Stadium and Big Red have a great tradition. The downfall of Youngstown City Schools is much of what has lead to Ursuline and Mooney having good stretches lately. If you look at your own program, they have had that amazing regular season win streak (congrats on that) but at the same time Catholic Central wasn't consistantly playing at the level that they had in the past. Maybe a top football player would choose Big Red over Catholic Central if he and his family thought it would help him. If a kid chose Big Red over Cathlolic Central because he thought it increases his chance of a college scholarship, do you really blame him? If Chaney had the same type of program (and school environment) that they did 10-15 years ago, I am sure many families would still be attending Chaney.
  • Thinthickbigred
    ^^^^^ In 05 Steubenville Big Red ..Steubenville Central ...Weirton high school ..all went to the state finale .... Two schools of our cities size both in the finale incredible.. 3 high schools in a five mile radius even more so ....
    Yes I root for Eastern Ohio ... As Ive said I like Youngstown its a great rivalry whichever team we play from that city. I like Boom Boom Mancini ..I like James Trafficant ..I love Al Bundy .... We are both old MOB towns with alot of good stories ...... I like the old timers and all the talk .... Youngstown and Steubenville are probably the toughest towns in Ohio
  • redstreak one
    Al Bundy;566752 wrote: Youngstown is a failing school district, so students from Youngstown City Schools can use a voucher to attend Ursuline or Mooney. Many students use that option for better academic options and just to be in a safer environment. Youngstown City Schools have had many problems that have become worse since they consolidated down to two schools. Youngstown has always had good football. Chaney was always in the mix as recemtly as the early part of this decade, but many students who would choose Chaney (or one of the other public schools in the past) no longer feel safe going there.
    Once again the arrogance of a private school supporter rears its ugly head! Do you really believe the majority of parents and kids and community associated with Youngstown city schools want their school to be failing? If you do my argument with you will end right there! However, anyone with sense would realize that public schools cannot BLOCK any student within their boundaries from stepping foot on campus and by law those students HAVE to be there. Now, a percentage of students walking the hallways at Youngstown city schools are nothing more than trouble makers, making their school an unsafe place.

    However, the Privates can block these undesirables as I have mentioned!

    So, I have pointed out that Privates have an advantage of keeping numbers low, have won or played for an above average number of championships, and that to blame the publics because they cant operate like a private and keep out those students who cause the problems and you guys still wont open your eyes, You might want to get your money back from that Pricey education!
  • Al Bundy
    redstreak one;566807 wrote:Once again the arrogance of a private school supporter rears its ugly head! Do you really believe the majority of parents and kids and community associated with Youngstown city schools want their school to be failing? If you do my argument with you will end right there! However, anyone with sense would realize that public schools cannot BLOCK any student within their boundaries from stepping foot on campus and by law those students HAVE to be there. Now, a percentage of students walking the hallways at Youngstown city schools are nothing more than trouble makers, making their school an unsafe place.

    However, the Privates can block these undesirables as I have mentioned!

    So, I have pointed out that Privates have an advantage of keeping numbers low, have won or played for an above average number of championships, and that to blame the publics because they cant operate like a private and keep out those students who cause the problems and you guys still wont open your eyes, You might want to get your money back from that Pricey education!
    I went to a public school. I am just stating the facts about how bad Youngstown City Schools have become. I see you are nowhere near the Youngstown area, so you probably have no idea how bad those schools have become.
  • Con_Alma
    If there weren't advantages to certain private schools I would not choose to send my children their. That's kind of the point.
  • 5knots
    That is why I say let the private schools be SCHOOLS and no sports, I mean that is REALLY why you are sending your kid there? Right? for the education. Then if a kids wants to participate in sports they play for the district they live in. period.
  • sherm03
    redstreak one;566807 wrote:Once again the arrogance of a private school supporter rears its ugly head! Do you really believe the majority of parents and kids and community associated with Youngstown city schools want their school to be failing? If you do my argument with you will end right there! However, anyone with sense would realize that public schools cannot BLOCK any student within their boundaries from stepping foot on campus and by law those students HAVE to be there. Now, a percentage of students walking the hallways at Youngstown city schools are nothing more than trouble makers, making their school an unsafe place.

    However, the Privates can block these undesirables as I have mentioned!

    So, I have pointed out that Privates have an advantage of keeping numbers low, have won or played for an above average number of championships, and that to blame the publics because they cant operate like a private and keep out those students who cause the problems and you guys still wont open your eyes, You might want to get your money back from that Pricey education!
    I get your point. However, open enrollment schools in nearby areas can also block those undesirable students. True...they cannot block students from their district from attending...but (as an example) Struthers, being a statewide open enrollment school, can just as easily "block" those inner city students as Mooney and Ursuline can.
    5knots;567009 wrote:That is why I say let the private schools be SCHOOLS and no sports, I mean that is REALLY why you are sending your kid there? Right? for the education. Then if a kids wants to participate in sports they play for the district they live in. period.

    And we have a new heir to the Bonehead Throne. Here...all this time...I thought skank was king of the stupid comments. But this one takes the cake.

    I'm sure there would be absolutely no problems that could arise from having kids who attend the same school playing on competing sports teams. That won't cause any problems. /sarcasm

    And what would you do about clubs and non-athletic extracurriculars. Do the kids that attend Mooney, but live in Boardman, and excel on the speech team have to be on Boardman's speech team. Does the exceptional tuba player that lives in Liberty but attends Ursuline have to go try out for Liberty's band?




    Here's what it boils down to for me. Separating the playoffs is a terrible decision. In a day and age where people are going crazy and actually getting politicians involved in trying to switch to a playoff system in college football so the champion can be "decided on the field"...people are actually looking to "fix" and unbroken playoff system here. Above all that, it teaches your kid absolutely nothing about overcoming adversity...and only gives them the message that if something isn't working out your way, then bitch and moan til it does.

    The multiplier isn't a great decision either. It doesn't change the big D1 private schools. They are still D1, and will be after a multiplier. All a multiplier does is move all of the private schools out of D6. Delphos St. John's and Newark Catholic will STILL be pretty tough to beat in D5. Ursuline will STILL be pretty tough to beat in D4. Alter will STILL be pretty tough to beat in D3. And Mooney and Watterson will STILL be pretty tough to beat in D2. So the only people hurting from this are the D2 private schools like Mentor Lake who would have a legitimately hard time winning the state championship in D1...and schools like Warren JFK who are currently struggling to win the D6 state championship. But because some adults' butts hurt, those teams get punished and have to move up.

    The current system is not broken. Do privates have an advantage? Sure do. They can offer a kid a great education that he wouldn't get in SOME of the public districts around the state. They can bring attention to a student so that he has a better chance of getting a scholarship. Don't you think when a kid in Youngstown watches ESPN and sees THREE head coaches of top NCAA teams all from the same high school...and then he sees that high school win the state championship...he doesn't want to be a part of that?
    Do open enrollment schools have an advantage? Most definitely.
    Do smaller rural schools have a tougher time competing? Yep. But they don't just have a harder time competing against the private schools. They have a harder time competing against ANY school from a bigger city. Perfect example: Harrison is a D2 school out in the sticks near Cincinnati. They were a playoff team this year at 5-5...but one of the losses was to Winton Woods, a public school in Cincinnati. Because there's more people in Cincinnati than there is in Harrison, Winton Woods has a lot more to draw from. Yet both are D2 because that's how the numbers come out.

    Someone is always going to have an advantage over you in life. These kids need to learn that, so they don't grow up to be whiny adults complaining about how the high school playoff system needs to be changed.
  • Al Bundy
    5knots;567009 wrote:That is why I say let the private schools be SCHOOLS and no sports, I mean that is REALLY why you are sending your kid there? Right? for the education. Then if a kids wants to participate in sports they play for the district they live in. period.

    I think you could argue that sports shouldn't be associated with schools at all, but it would be all schools not just private. Much of the world follows that process, and you have community teams (similar to what we have for little league). I don't think that will ever happen here. Under our current system, what is wrong with a kid and family choosing a school that best meets his/her need whether it be public or private?
  • 5knots
    I knew it would get a rise out of someone. haha. I get tired of hearing the argument "it's all about the school" well then let it be a school not a feeder program for College sports. haha
  • Al Bundy
    5knots;567072 wrote:I knew it would get a rise out of someone. haha. I get tired of hearing the argument "it's all about the school" well then let it be a school not a feeder program for College sports. haha

    Shouldn't public schools do that then too?
  • 5knots
    OK with me.
  • password
    Thinthickbigred;566743 wrote: By law I want this ..........................................If not that way then very good private schools in football should be moved up in class by two divisions. That way if a school that boarders a division cant skate...again I want to appologize to some younger people who I may have offended I should have been more sensitive.

    I seem to be missing your point on the whole private vs public school debate because now you are saying that just the very good private schools should be forced to move up in divisions for football.When people have accused Big Red of recruiting kids from other schools for football you always fire back with Big Red offers a better education than any other school in the valley and that the parents just want what is best for their kids and that Big Red can offer a chance to get a better education and more media coverage so their kids can get a better chance at college.Don't take this the wrong way because I support Big Red and all valley schools in all sports but I really doubt that you would have started all this if Big Red would not have lost to a little catholic school during the season and was still playing in the playoffs.
  • skank
    Rocket08;566523 wrote:Unlike your school, these kids leave with an education that can help them

    Go back and stand at the corner by McKinley and see how many kids you can steal this year...


    And still lose


    And you are familiar with our educational system how? A city school being compared to a private school....educationally....nice. How many courses do you offer for kids with learning disabilities? How many single parent houshold kids are you educating? There is no comparison here. The only kids that MAY come from single parent housholds are the ones recieving the athle....er, I mean academic scholarships.