Ohio Chatter DEV

SportsAndLady

ernest_t_bass;1858672 wrote:Classy tried too hard with that post. Obvious troll is beyond obvious.

You guys let classys posts get to you too much. I don't let a virgins troll posts on a message board bother me too much.

Sonofanump

BR1986FB;1858666 wrote:Agreed and I'm sure a lot of people won't like this "hot taek" but LBJ started all of this so it's partially his fault. I know it was a bitch move for KD to join a 73 win team he couldn't beat and LBJ's situation was different (joined friends/built a team) but I still contend that LBJ could've had multiple titles here in Cleveland. His passive/aggressive "will he stay or will he go" diva bullshit kept a few free agents from coming here because he wouldn't commit (or recruit).

Yes, agree, but if he did not leave the Cavs would not have been able to built thru the draft with KI, TT or been able to trade Wiggins for Love.

SMH at Waiter and Bennett

Fab4Runner

I am bummed, but the 73 win Warriors had to add the 2nd best player in the NBA to beat the Cavs. This is a lot easier to take because they won last year.

sleeper

I still think the Cavs have the tools necessary to beat the Warriors in a 7-game series.

Congrats to Durant though. He may be a "Beta Bitch" but he played a really good series and finally got his championship ring. I think we will be seeing more Cavs/Warriors Finals match ups going forward because even if we start seeing LeDecline, it's quite clear Kyrie Irving has become the best PG in the game.

Anyways, it sucks to lose but we will be back and I don't think Lebron is done winning championships in Cleveland.

BR1986FB

Fab4Runner;1858681 wrote:This is a lot easier to take because they won last year.

This is an extremely good point. Last year's win takes some of the sting out of this year. Can we imagine the meltdown had the Cavs lost last year, GSW added KD AND beat the Cavs for a third consecutive year?

like_that

BR1986FB;1858666 wrote:Agreed and I'm sure a lot of people won't like this "hot taek" but LBJ started all of this so it's partially his fault. I know it was a bitch move for KD to join a 73 win team he couldn't beat and LBJ's situation was different (joined friends/built a team) but I still contend that LBJ could've had multiple titles here in Cleveland. His passive/aggressive "will he stay or will he go" diva bullshit kept a few free agents from coming here because he wouldn't commit (or recruit).

If we are being fair, yes we can't 100% bitch about super teams and not mention Lebron. I think the trend was going to happen regardless once Boston made their team.

Still, what Lebron did is NOT even close to what KD did. Anyone who tries to compare the two is thinking with his/her ass.

ernest_t_bass;1858673 wrote:I think a 70+ game season is plenty of time to "gel."

This. They looked gelled to me.

Fab4Runner;1858681 wrote:I am bummed, but the 73 win Warriors had to add the 2nd best player in the NBA to beat the Cavs. This is a lot easier to take because they won last year.

If the Cavs lost last year there would have been extreme panic and misery on July when KD announced he was going to GSW. I was more depressed at the Indians losing game 7 than I was this series, since this series really wasn't that close. It still hurts though.

sleeper;1858684 wrote:I still think the Cavs have the tools necessary to beat the Warriors in a 7-game series.

Congrats to Durant though. He may be a "Beta Bitch" but he played a really good series and finally got his championship ring. I think we will be seeing more Cavs/Warriors Finals match ups going forward because even if we start seeing LeDecline, it's quite clear Kyrie Irving has become the best PG in the game.

Anyways, it sucks to lose but we will be back and I don't think Lebron is done winning championships in Cleveland.

They do if they play every game like they did in Game 4. They can still play great but slightly less than what they did in game 4 and they lose. That's what we saw in games 3 and 5.

They should be back barring any injuries, I just hope there are some moves they can make to make the finals competitive.

My friend sent me a video of lebron and kyrie walking back to the locker room. They both looked focus and all lebron said was "we will be back, we will be back" and Kyrie agreed. I don't see those two going into depression over this.

superman

BR1986FB;1858666 wrote:Agreed and I'm sure a lot of people won't like this "hot taek" but LBJ started all of this so it's partially his fault. I know it was a bitch move for KD to join a 73 win team he couldn't beat and LBJ's situation was different (joined friends/built a team) but I still contend that LBJ could've had multiple titles here in Cleveland. His passive/aggressive "will he stay or will he go" diva bullshit kept a few free agents from coming here because he wouldn't commit (or recruit).

For the 8,456,713 time, LBJ did not start this.
KD and Ray Allen forcing trades to the Celtics started it.

sleeper

Still, what Lebron did is NOT even close to what KD did. Anyone who tries to compare the two is thinking with his/her ass.

Exactly. A better comparison would be Lebron leaving Cleveland to go join Boston with KG, PP, Allen and Rondo.

Automatik

KD still made the biggest bitch move of all time. I can't think of one close to comparable.

He balled out though, so good for him.

sleeper

My friend sent me a video of lebron and kyrie walking back to the locker room. They both looked focus and all lebron said was "we will be back, we will be back" and Kyrie agreed. I don't see those two going into depression over this.

Because they will be back next year at the latest. There is no cloud over Cleveland and there is no reason to be pessimistic. Kyrie Irving is the future and the future is bright.

Automatik

Interested to see how they answer regarding personnel moves.

Shumpert - GTFO
Richardson - GTFO
JR - could probably GTFO
Korver?

sleeper

Automatik;1858705 wrote:Interested to see how they answer regarding personnel moves.

Shumpert - GTFO
Richardson - GTFO
JR - could probably GTFO
Korver?

I could see the bench being shaken up and potentially Love shipped to Indiana for George. I really think the bench is the only thing that needs to be re-tooled. Shumpert is the top target to ship out; JR is staying and Korver will probably stay.

Frye/Jefferson are vets on a minimum contract; them staying/going doesn't really have an impact.

There's no need to panic but it's clear the bench was the weak spot this year. However, we also have the most expensive roster in NBA history so getting quality bench players when our salary values are concentrated with overvalued talent, it's really hard to blame the bench. For example, we had to keep JR/TT but are they really worth the money they are being paid? Besides Game 5, JR was a non-factor in the Finals and TT was a non-factor in the Finals as well. You also need more production out of Love on a consistent basis rather than just a good game every once in a while.

Spock

Automatik;1858702 wrote:KD still made the biggest bitch move of all time. I can't think of one close to comparable.

He balled out though, so good for him.

Really? Did he have a national press conference on ESPN to announce he was going somewhere because Cleveland want good enough?

Automatik

No, but he did join the team that he was on the brink of eliminating the year prior.

LeBron's "decision" was some egotistical bullshit, for sure, but in terms of bitch move, KD is king.

Spock

Automatik;1858711 wrote:No, but he did join the team that he was on the brink of eliminating the year prior.

LeBron's "decision" was some egotistical bullshit, for sure, but in terms of bitch move, KD is king.

butt sore is butt sore

Spock

[video=youtube;bHSLw8DLm20][/video]

Automatik

Mindless response as expected. :rolleyes:

Ironman92

sleeper;1858701 wrote:Exactly. A better comparison would be Lebron leaving Cleveland to go join Boston with KG, PP, Allen and Rondo.

This

O-Trap

BR1986FB;1858666 wrote:Agreed and I'm sure a lot of people won't like this "hot taek" but LBJ started all of this so it's partially his fault. I know it was a bitch move for KD to join a 73 win team he couldn't beat and LBJ's situation was different (joined friends/built a team) but I still contend that LBJ could've had multiple titles here in Cleveland. His passive/aggressive "will he stay or will he go" diva bullshit kept a few free agents from coming here because he wouldn't commit (or recruit).

LeBron is definitely a petty diva, but he didn't start the super team stuff. KG, Allen, and Pierce were all 20+ PPG guys for several years immediately prior to joining up. They were still putting up numbers like guys in their prime. I think KG even led the NBA in rebounds per game in the year before they teamed up. That seemed like the first super team, though I don't count Rondo, since he was mostly an unproven commodity prior to that year.

But I'll agree that James upped the ante. The Celtics' "Big Three" (they were the first time I ever heard the phrase) had involved a LOT of strategy from Ainge. It was still largely front-office-driven, and even though they were still playing at a high level, from a sheer age standpoint, the window was smaller. The Heat super team had two guys in their primes and one in his late prime, and it was largely player-driven, so while I don't think LeBron started the whole super team movement, he certainly put a spin on it that has stuck.

SportsAndLady;1858678 wrote:You guys let classys posts get to you too much. I don't let a virgins troll posts on a message board bother me too much.

He's just fun to hate on.

sleeper;1858684 wrote:I still think the Cavs have the tools necessary to beat the Warriors in a 7-game series.

I agree with this. Of the five games, three were reasonably close. A few shots or calls go differently, and we're up 3-2. Not to mention the fact that the Cavs shot TERRIBLY for the first three games. WAY below their norm (especially in Game 1).

like_that;1858694 wrote:Still, what Lebron did is NOT even close to what KD did.

Agreed. I used this analogy:

If a team is a house, there are parts of the house that are crucial to the stability of the house. LeBron went to be part of a house being built. He, Wade, and Bosh were like the load-bearing walls of the house that was built down there.

However, the house was already built in Golden State. They were the odds-on favorite to win even before KD came to town. KD was basically an add-on to extend the kitchen. He wasn't necessary. He made the house better, sure, but the house was fine without him, too.

Automatik;1858702 wrote:KD still made the biggest bitch move of all time. I can't think of one close to comparable.

He balled out though, so good for him.

Any of the All-Star quality players would have balled out on that team. Not saying he's not top-3 in the league, but with so many offensive weapons, opponents won't be able to focus exclusively on you or you and just one other teammate. You'll get less defensive attention, just out of necessity.

sleeper;1858708 wrote:I could see the bench being shaken up and potentially Love shipped to Indiana for George. I really think the bench is the only thing that needs to be re-tooled. Shumpert is the top target to ship out; JR is staying and Korver will probably stay.

Frye/Jefferson are vets on a minimum contract; them staying/going doesn't really have an impact.

There's no need to panic but it's clear the bench was the weak spot this year. However, we also have the most expensive roster in NBA history so getting quality bench players when our salary values are concentrated with overvalued talent, it's really hard to blame the bench. For example, we had to keep JR/TT but are they really worth the money they are being paid? Besides Game 5, JR was a non-factor in the Finals and TT was a non-factor in the Finals as well. You also need more production out of Love on a consistent basis rather than just a good game every once in a while.

One thing about the bench that I haven't liked is that it's old. Frye, Jefferson, both Joneses, Korver, and Deron Williams are all older than I am (33). The only "young" guy coming off the bench and getting relevant minutes is Shump, who's 27.

There are going to be games where you need to lean on your bench, and with as old as many of those guys are, they just don't have the legs for it anymore. Korver can still hit, but he sure seems like running the court at the Warriors' pace affects his shooting. Deron Williams is a shell of his former baller self. Jefferson has some quality minutes sometimes, but they're often peppered with 'WTF' minutes, too.

They need a better balance of youth and experience on the bench. I know they've got Derrick Williams and Edy Tavares, who are young, but if they're not good enough to get at least a few quality minutes in competitive games, then what value do they bring? None. Young, fresh bench players only help when they are good enough to get OFF the bench.

As for a Love/George trade, what would incentivize Indiana to make that trade? It's not a terrible trade-off in terms of immediate value, but what would it be about Love that would sweeten the deal enough to get Indiana to want that? The fact that George might leave after this next year is the only thing I can think of, which might be enough, but it's not a ton.

Con_Alma

...better get the GM signed before anything else is addressed.

Automatik

I have no issue with Durant leaving, I expected that. It was who he went to. One game from knocking them out, then you join them. GUTLESS.

O-Trap

Con_Alma;1858718 wrote:...better get the GM signed before anything else is addressed.

Oh yeah, no kidding.

like_that

Automatik;1858719 wrote:I have no issue with Durant leaving, I expected that. It was who he went to. One game from knocking them out, then you join them. GUTLESS.

I posted the below in the NBA thread about a month ago. It details the main differences between Lebron and KD's decision. What you said can't be overstated enough. Durant could have gone to Boston, San Antonio, or stayed in OKC and he would have been competing for a title this year. Even if he went to Boston and they lost to the Cavs in a tight ECF, Boston would be in position to be scary good the next 5+ years. They could have signed Hayward AND trade for PG/Buter. KD/PG/Hayward/IT/Horford would be a more lethal starting 5 than what the Warriors have now imo.

Edit: I just realized you were the first person to reply to this post when I posted it lol. You also brought up Washington as a destination, which also would have been a team to reckon with.

like_that;1852274 wrote:I also don't give Lebron a pass for leaving Miami and how he did it. I still think he could have won a title in Cleveland, especially if he committed to the FO earlier and recruited as much as he does now. That's a separate debate though.

I think everyone above mostly have covered it all, but I would also like to add that you should consider the conditions of the Cavs and NBA at the time Lebron made that decision:

-The Heat were still good enough to guarantee Lebron an easy road to the NBA finals, and he had a scumbag GM who would do anything to put the Heat in position to win a title. (not to mention in hindsight he had Whiteside arriving)
-The Cavs were coming off a 33 win season, which was their 4th straight losing season.
-They traded for Luol Deng that season and within a month he told the media how dysfunctional the Cavs were. Luol came from Chicago, which isn't the poster team for having their shit together. Luol didn't re-sign obviously.
-The drafted Bennet #1 overall.
-The Cavs fired their GM and had a new GM.
-They fired Mike Brown after only coaching one season.
-They hired a rookie head coach who had never even been an assistant in the NBA.
-The roster's most promising players were an unproven all star PG and a rookie (Wiggins).
-The roster had Dion Waiters... enough said.

I am sure I am missing other details, but with all of this in mind Lebron still had the confidence in himself to take the leap of faith, because he believed he could win a title in Cleveland. The Eastern Conference and the rest of the NBA to a degree were ecstatic when Lebron left for Cleveland. They viewed the move as an opportunity for other teams to have a chance to win it all. I think that is the exact opposite of a beta bitch move.

KD could have joined the Spurs for fucks sake, and nobody would have thought it was a beta bitch move. Hell, the Celtics were in position to bring in ANOTHER super star for KD, and nobody would have thought it was a beta bitch move. Boston could have had KD, IT, PG/Butler AND kept most of their core role players. Instead, KD had 0 confidence in himself and joined a 73 win that he should have beaten himself. It doesn't get any more beta bitch than that.

http://www.ohiochatter.com/forum/showthread.php?48180-2016-17-NBA-Thread&p=1852274&viewfull=1#post1852274

sleeper

One thing about the bench that I haven't liked is that it's old. Frye, Jefferson, both Joneses, Korver, and Deron Williams are all older than I am (33). The only "young" guy coming off the bench and getting relevant minutes is Shump, who's 27.

There are going to be games where you need to lean on your bench, and with as old as many of those guys are, they just don't have the legs for it anymore. Korver can still hit, but he sure seems like running the court at the Warriors' pace affects his shooting. Deron Williams is a shell of his former baller self. Jefferson has some quality minutes sometimes, but they're often peppered with 'WTF' minutes, too.

They need a better balance of youth and experience on the bench. I know they've got Derrick Williams and Edy Tavares, who are young, but if they're not good enough to get at least a few quality minutes in competitive games, then what value do they bring? None. Young, fresh bench players only help when they are good enough to get OFF the bench.

As for a Love/George trade, what would incentivize Indiana to make that trade? It's not a terrible trade-off in terms of immediate value, but what would it be about Love that would sweeten the deal enough to get Indiana to want that? The fact that George might leave after this next year is the only thing I can think of, which might be enough, but it's not a ton.

The bench is always going to be old when you have 3-max players(Love, LBJ, KI) and 4 players making way more than they would on the open market(Shumpert, JR, TT, Frye). There just isn't any salary left over to make any big splashes for young/"Fresh" talent so you rely on 3rd tier rookies and veterans to fill out your roster/bench. Tavares is their best prospect but he won't see any action against GSW either and probably won't see much in the season just because he's not good enough yet for the rotation. I'd seriously look into moving Shumpert/TT/Frye/Love for some better pieces to match up against GSW because the East is going to be won regardless and you need to tool up to win the championship.

Indiana would trade him because he's gone at the end of next year and it's a rare opportunity to lose an all-star and replace him with another all-star(Love). I think this is the most realistic option especially if Indiana has another mediocre season.

sleeper

Con_Alma;1858718 wrote:...better get the GM signed before anything else is addressed.

There's no indication that Gilbert isn't going to retain Griffin. Gilbert has already turned down any requests by other organizations to interview with Griffin and he would only do that if he intended on keeping him.

Archive

NBA Champion - Cleveland Cavaliers 2016-2017 Season Thread