Ohio Chatter DEV

Azubuike24

Dalton had fabulous numbers last year before the injury. He was a top 5 QB in the league. His career trajectory would be seen in a much better light, but the playoff losses kill him.

I mean, the guy has won 10+ games every year of his career and for someone thrown right in as a rookie, 2nd rounder, he's held up better than most. The real key, is can he push his play up another notch?

Azubuike24

...and no, Griffin's rookie year was not better than Dalton's 2015.

like_that

As I said for the last 5 years. If you take AJ out of the game, Dalton is an average QB at best. Nothing has changed. Also lol at talking about Dalton being a MVP candidate. Calling Dalton a MVP candidate after a 5-0 start is like the time people jerked off to Asdrubal Cabrera to be a MVP candidate after 1/4 of a season.

Dalton is a ginger Jake Plummer.

Commander of Awesome

Azubuike24;1809832 wrote:...and no, Griffin's rookie year was not better than Dalton's 2015.

Actually, by every statistical category, it was.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrifRo01.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm

RG3 rookie yr, QBR 75.6
Dalton 5 yrs in the league QBR 73

RG3 Rookie YR INT% 1.3
Dalton 2015 1.8%

and RG3 sucks, lol.

Automatik

Commander of Awesome;1809830 wrote:Spoken like a true rapist fan.

You're quite triggered today.

like_that

Also lol at the "well he is better than any QB the Browns have had!!" argument.

No shit he is, that still doesn't make the case for Dalton being a great QB. Congrats on setting the bar high.

thavoice

Azubuike24;1809831 wrote:Dalton had fabulous numbers last year before the injury. He was a top 5 QB in the league. His career trajectory would be seen in a much better light, but the playoff losses kill him.

I mean, the guy has won 10+ games every year of his career and for someone thrown right in as a rookie, 2nd rounder, he's held up better than most. The real key, is can he push his play up another notch?

If Dalton didn't get hurt who knows how it ends up last season. Game was only 7-0 when he got hurt, so they went basically 2-2 with McCarron taking most if not all the snaps to finish the regular season. I like their chances in winning at least 1, maybe both of those losses if AD doesn't get hurt. I was in a place where I couldnt watch the playoff matchup, but from the write-ups and all I found they should have won that playoff game as well so it is easy to believe if AD doesn't get hurt they go far!

Not sure why AD doesn't get the love...maybe jealous browns fans?

SportsAndLady

RG3 and Dalton both suck.

Dalton is a below average qb who throws it 15 times a game to aj green who makes his stats look good.

RG3 is an injury waiting to happen.

Roethlisberger is a rapist POS.

The end

like_that

thavoice;1809839 wrote:If Dalton didn't get hurt who knows how it ends up last season. Game was only 7-0 when he got hurt, so they went basically 2-2 with McCarron taking most if not all the snaps. I like their chances in winning at least 1, maybe both of those losses if AD doesn't get hurt. Was stuck in the barracks and didn't get to see the playoff matchup, but from the write-ups and all I found they should have won that playoff game as well.

Not sure why AD doesn't get the love...maybe jealous browns fans?

Probably the same result. I think you can replace Dalton with 90% of the QBs in this league and they would still get to the playoffs with that roster. There is a reason why McCarron almost won that game.

The jealous Browns argument is another cop out argument. I'm speaking from a pure football perspective. I hate the bengals the least out of the 3 other teams in the AFCN. I think rapistberger is the biggest POS in the NFL, but I won't deny he is a good QB.

Azubuike24

Depends what you're looking at. Are you talking the ESPN QBR? The one I got crushed last year for using about Dalton, saying his career numbers put him in the middle of the pack for QB's? Total stats? It could go both ways, but we're also isolating a single season. Dalton played less games, more yards, more TD's?

Lets see how Dalton does this year with lesser weapons other than AJ. It's unfair to just say "without AJ Green, Dalton sucks." Take a star WR off any team and the QB is a lot worse.

I will say this...AJ Green is one of the top 3 or 4 WR's int he NFL, but he has been killed by volume. 131 targets last year, nowhere near anything close to what Brown, Hopkins or Julio got. If his number grows from 131 to say 180, it probably means Dalton is forcing him the ball too much and his actually have a worse season from an efficiency standpoint.

thavoice

Yeah, maybe. They were loaded but with AD maybe it doesn't come down what happened late.

I am always hesitant to just say changing of 1 player would make a huge difference but when it is a QB I think it is different

like_that;1809842 wrote:Probably the same result. I think you can replace Dalton with 90% of the QBs in this league and they would still get to the playoffs with that roster. There is a reason why McCarron almost won that game.

Azubuike24

like_that;1809842 wrote:Probably the same result. I think you can replace Dalton with 90% of the QBs in this league and they would still get to the playoffs with that roster. There is a reason why McCarron almost won that game.

The jealous Browns argument is another cop out argument. I'm speaking from a pure football perspective. I hate the bengals the least out of the 3 other teams in the AFCN. I think rapistberger is the biggest POS in the NFL, but I won't deny he is a good QB.

I agree with this. And I would also say there are about 6-8 "good QB's" in the NFL. Dalton is no different than many of the middle of the pack guys, but he's magnified on the negative side. Why is Carson Palmer considered great? The guy has been average for over a decade, he lands on a team with great receivers, a stud RB and a top 3 defense in the NFL. All of the sudden, he's amazing? Compare their careers, they are almost the same player.

thavoice

Azubuike24;1809845 wrote:Depends what you're looking at. Are you talking the ESPN QBR? The one I got crushed last year for using about Dalton, saying his career numbers put him in the middle of the pack for QB's? Total stats? It could go both ways, but we're also isolating a single season. Dalton played less games, more yards, more TD's?

Lets see how Dalton does this year with lesser weapons other than AJ. It's unfair to just say "without AJ Green, Dalton sucks." Take a star WR off any team and the QB is a lot worse.

I will say this...AJ Green is one of the top 3 or 4 WR's int he NFL, but he has been killed by volume. 131 targets last year, nowhere near anything close to what Brown, Hopkins or Julio got. If his number grows from 131 to say 180, it probably means Dalton is forcing him the ball too much and his actually have a worse season from an efficiency standpoint.

I think many Bengal fans are underestimating the losses of their WRs and without Eifert for awhile and Jackson leaving. I just don't think it will be as rosy as many of them think it will be.

friendfromlowry

like_that;1809833 wrote:As I said for the last 5 years. If you take AJ out of the game, Dalton is an average QB at best. Nothing has changed. Also lol at talking about Dalton being a MVP candidate. Calling Dalton a MVP candidate after a 5-0 start is like the time people jerked off to Asdrubal Cabrera to be a MVP candidate after 1/4 of a season.

Dalton is a ginger Jake Plummer.

They were actually 10-2 before he got hurt. At the halfway point, he was in the MVP discussion. Any QB of a 10-2 team would be. His shortcomings are obvious but any rational fan can agree 2015 was a great year for him. Obviously, we'll see if he continues that or regresses back to "bad Andy"
Three years ago, I would have packed Dalton's suitcase myself if Minnesota was in the same boat and desperately offering draft picks.

At the very least, you can't downplay McCarron because he couldn't replace Dalton. The Bengals are conservative. They aren't going to bench their QB who's getting them to the playoffs every year for an unknown.

Azubuike24

The Bengals definitely lost a lot of weapons. Brandon LaFell is their #2 WR FFS. It's also a perfect time for Dalton to rise up. If he turns out a good season, it's not "because he has AJ green." How's that working out for Matt Ryan? People finally saw the truth on Ryan, that he's an average, overhyped QB who got lumped into the upper-echelon category because he was a #1 pick. The true conclusion? Holy shit, how bad would he be without Julio Jones?

thavoice

True. Thing is though, how many QB's out there that we declare as 'great' that didn't have some sort of very good WR?
Brady comes to mind, and I imagine there are others but even the top QB's tend to have some sort of receiver they consider to be extremely good.

..and then you have the browns who have one of the best but no QB. Granted, or do I mean granite, he has had his issues to keep him off the field but just think the #'s he would put up with a good QB?

Azubuike24;1809850 wrote:The Bengals definitely lost a lot of weapons. Brandon LaFell is their #2 WR FFS. It's also a perfect time for Dalton to rise up. If he turns out a good season, it's not "because he has AJ green." How's that working out for Matt Ryan? People finally saw the truth on Ryan, that he's an average, overhyped QB who got lumped into the upper-echelon category because he was a #1 pick. The true conclusion? Holy shit, how bad would he be without Julio Jones?

like_that

Azubuike24;1809847 wrote:I agree with this. And I would also say there are about 6-8 "good QB's" in the NFL. Dalton is no different than many of the middle of the pack guys, but he's magnified on the negative side. Why is Carson Palmer considered great? The guy has been average for over a decade, he lands on a team with great receivers, a stud RB and a top 3 defense in the NFL. All of the sudden, he's amazing? Compare their careers, they are almost the same player.

Who said Carson is great? I do know that he would take the bengals to the playoffs with that roster and have a better shot at winning a game.

like_that

thavoice;1809852 wrote:True. Thing is though, how many QB's out there that we declare as 'great' that didn't have some sort of very good WR?
Brady comes to mind, and I imagine there are others but even the top QB's tend to have some sort of receiver they consider to be extremely good.

..and then you have the browns who have one of the best but no QB. Granted, or do I mean granite, he has had his issues to keep him off the field but just think the #'s he would put up with a good QB?

It's not his WR. The bengals are pretty strong at most positions. Not many weaknesses.

thavoice

like_that;1809854 wrote:It's not his WR. The bengals are pretty strong at most positions. Not many weaknesses.

True, but with Sanu and Jones gone, Eifert out for quite awhile teams defenses can focus more on AJ. WHo knows, maybe another WR will take advantage of this and have a big year.

Ironman92

Dalton was working his way towards my top 10 last year. I agree he was trending towards a playoff win but I just need to see it first. I need to see the guy in a big road game with a struggling or injured Green find a way to pull it out. I need to see the "by God get on my shoulders guy, we are winning this game"

He's pretty well into his career and I still haven't seen it.

Commander of Awesome

Azubuike24;1809845 wrote:Depends what you're looking at. Are you talking the ESPN QBR? The one I got crushed last year for using about Dalton, saying his career numbers put him in the middle of the pack for QB's? Total stats? It could go both ways, but we're also isolating a single season. Dalton played less games, more yards, more TD's?

Lets see how Dalton does this year with lesser weapons other than AJ. It's unfair to just say "without AJ Green, Dalton sucks." Take a star WR off any team and the QB is a lot worse.

I will say this...AJ Green is one of the top 3 or 4 WR's int he NFL, but he has been killed by volume. 131 targets last year, nowhere near anything close to what Brown, Hopkins or Julio got. If his number grows from 131 to say 180, it probably means Dalton is forcing him the ball too much and his actually have a worse season from an efficiency standpoint.

Great point, I was thinking it was a PFF rating, but it's actually BSPN's idiotic rating. I retract that as evidence in the case.

Also the reason I'm isolating the single season is bc YOU SAID:

Azubuike24;1809832 wrote:...and no, Griffin's rookie year was not better than Dalton's 2015.

derp

Azubuike24

Bottom line, I'm a big Dalton supporter, not because I'm some super fan, but because I think he's been unfairly criticized for literally not winning a playoff game and for never really showing much when everyone was watching. There's some merit to that, but he's also getting crushed for a playoff game as a 2nd round rookie, another playoff loss with literally no skill players around him and he gets lumped into the Bengals playoff choke narrative from last year even though he was on the sidelines.

I will say, he's failed to rise to the occasion in prime time and the 2013 San Diego playoff loss was an embarrassment. Other than that, he's had a solid career that has a trajectory similar to many other QB's who went on to have great careers. I mean, look at Ben Roethlisberger's early numbers. He was a game manager who rode a dominant running game and defense. He simply made the few crucial plays when needed.

Not saying Dalton is Roethlisberger, but he's got a chance to prove it this year as it's tough to argue he has better offensive talent than everyone else.

SportsAndLady

I think it'd be kinda funny if Dalton played well enough to keep his job, but never good enough to win a playoff game.

Funny because it'd be a perfect microcosm for the bengals, his very own team lol

Heretic

SportsAndLady;1809910 wrote:I think it'd be kinda funny if Dalton played well enough to keep his job, but never good enough to win a playoff game.

Funny because it'd be a perfect microcosm for the bengals, his very own team lol

Mike Brown is content just being one half-step above mediocrity. Who cares if he can't win a playoff game to save his life? Marvin Lewis can get them there! And that's all that matters.

Azubuike24

As a Bengals fan, I'm almost at the point where if they don't go further in the playoffs, I'd rather things just collapse entirely.

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