Tribe Offseason Thread
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Laley23
Might as well get it started, since we have already started on the last thread.
Feel free to copy and paste your posts on here. -
TBone14
I'll get it going. From the other thread.
Overall, a positive season. I think the team was who were thought they were. Some unlucky breaks and bad defense costs us some games early in the year that would have been helpful down the stretch.
The Good-
-Tito and the staff. They get these guys to play and never give up on a game...even when they get down early. Mickey Callaway has to given some credit for the big steps forward for Kluber, some of the young guys and the bullpen.
-Kluber, CC potentially figuring it out. Flashes of brilliance from Salazar and Bauer. Allen, Shaw, Atchiston, Brantley, Gomes, Ramirez, Santana after May, Lonnie before the ASG.
The Bad-
Bourn can't stay healthy. Murph had some clutch hits but overall wasn't very productive. Lonnie after the ASG. Tomlin, McAllister.
The Ugly-
Kipnis following his All Star campaign with a total dud of a season. Cabrera and Masterson being so bad they were shipped out of town. Swisher. It doesn't make the front office want to take chances on the free agent market when the guys they take a chance on don't come anywhere near their past production. The defense. Cost us multiple games. -
BR1986FBI know it will never happen but I'd like to see Tito march into the front office and put their feet to the fire, demanding they bring in a legit bat.
This team has gone from "contender" to third best in the division and I don't see this changing anytime soon. -
HitsRus
I think the front office has a lot less to contend with this off season...the team is in pretty good shape and they have control over all of the key players,... and for that I give them a lot of credit.
Zac Mac is the new Carrasco in terms of options...he can't be optioned to AAA without being exposed to waivers. other than that, there won't be a mad scramble to try to replace key players. Last year two members of the rotation were free agents, you had to replace the closer and the set up man. 3rd base was one big question mark and there was effort to convert Carlos Santana to a 3Bman. You needed another outfielder...Bourn status was unclear to start the season.
This season, they don't have to replace anybody they don't want to, and key players have been locked into long term contracts.... pretty good work for a season. -
Laley23
This team is set-up for a run the next few years, and as Hits just said, they dont need a lot of help...but that doesnt mean nothing.
IMO, in baseball, if you arent making changes to the bullpen, you are doomed to fail in that department. So few guys in a pen are reliable year to year. Im not saying Allen will suck, or Shaw (though he had some bad moments) will ballon and have a 4+ ERA, or anything. But, you have to prepare for that, and more importantly, prepare for the middle relievers to fluctuate in performance. We have seen it before, and we will see it again. Shaw was WAY overworked, I wouldnt be surprised if we were calling for his head in May. That is why I am always a fan of going after 2-3 guys for the Pen, even if you are 100% comfortable with what you ended the year with. Stash someone in AAA or something.
On the positive side of the Pen, Allen regained his form after about a weeks worth of questions late. And I think CC Lee is going to be a reliable 7th inning man. And if not, I think McCallister can be that as well. The guy has a very good fastball, but always got shelled after 1 time through the line-up. Come in, blow the opposition away for an inning, and hand it over. So, that is 4 guys who I think can serve the team well out of the pen in close games...really just need 3 of them to be good to have a dominate pen and 2 of them to be very good (think this season).
As for the field, if Bourn is healthy, you have LF and CF covered. We need a RF who can rake. I dont want to get my hopes up for a pipe-dream, because it is just NOT going to happen (Stanton). But, the emergence of Jose Ramirez, who hit .285 after his recall, has really given the front office some flexibility. You can trade him and someone else for a semi-star, or even make a blockbuster involving Lindor for a true stud.
For arguments sake, lets say we hold on to both. The starting line-up would look like this, imo:
Bourn - CF
Ramirez - SS
Brantley - LF
Gomes - C
Santana - 1B
Kipnis - 2B
Chisenhall - 3B
Swisher - RF
Aviles - DH
I am assuming they pick up the option on Aviles. But maybe not. Swisher, not sure what to do with him. Kipnis, I think you just have to assume he is the everyday 2B. Chisenhall, not sure what you do. Probably go into the season with him as the everyday 3B, but that second half was a lot more of the same. He had 9 more Ks in the 2nd half in 16 less games and almost 50 less ABs.
So, while there are quite a few question marks, overall the product is set and solid. 1-6 is very strong. -
TBone14
HitsRus;1658652 wrote:I think the front office has a lot less to contend with this off season...the team is in pretty good shape and they have control over all of the key players,... and for that I give them a lot of credit.
Zac Mac is the new Carrasco in terms of options...he can't be optioned to AAA without being exposed to waivers. other than that, there won't be a mad scramble to try to replace key players. Last year two members of the rotation were free agents, you had to replace the closer and the set up man. 3rd base was one big question mark and there was effort to convert Carlos Santana to a 3Bman. You needed another outfielder...Bourn status was unclear to start the season.
This season, they don't have to replace anybody they don't want to, and key players have been locked into long term contracts.... pretty good work for a season.
I want to be as excited as you guys but I just can't right now. I don't think we can just close our eyes and wish that some of these guys will get better. We need help on offense. What if Kipnis has another season like this and he doesn't bounce back? What if Gomes gets hurt? It was a totally different offense when he was out with that concussion.Laley23;1658659 wrote:This team is set-up for a run the next few years, and as Hits just said, they dont need a lot of help...but that doesnt mean nothing.
IMO, in baseball, if you arent making changes to the bullpen, you are doomed to fail in that department. So few guys in a pen are reliable year to year. Im not saying Allen will suck, or Shaw (though he had some bad moments) will ballon and have a 4+ ERA, or anything. But, you have to prepare for that, and more importantly, prepare for the middle relievers to fluctuate in performance. We have seen it before, and we will see it again. Shaw was WAY overworked, I wouldnt be surprised if we were calling for his head in May. That is why I am always a fan of going after 2-3 guys for the Pen, even if you are 100% comfortable with what you ended the year with. Stash someone in AAA or something.
On the positive side of the Pen, Allen regained his form after about a weeks worth of questions late. And I think CC Lee is going to be a reliable 7th inning man. And if not, I think McCallister can be that as well. The guy has a very good fastball, but always got shelled after 1 time through the line-up. Come in, blow the opposition away for an inning, and hand it over. So, that is 4 guys who I think can serve the team well out of the pen in close games...really just need 3 of them to be good to have a dominate pen and 2 of them to be very good (think this season).
As for the field, if Bourn is healthy, you have LF and CF covered. We need a RF who can rake. I dont want to get my hopes up for a pipe-dream, because it is just NOT going to happen (Stanton). But, the emergence of Jose Ramirez, who hit .285 after his recall, has really given the front office some flexibility. You can trade him and someone else for a semi-star, or even make a blockbuster involving Lindor for a true stud.
For arguments sake, lets say we hold on to both. The starting line-up would look like this, imo:
Bourn - CF
Ramirez - SS
Brantley - LF
Gomes - C
Santana - 1B
Kipnis - 2B
Chisenhall - 3B
Swisher - RF
Aviles - DH
I am assuming they pick up the option on Aviles. But maybe not. Swisher, not sure what to do with him. Kipnis, I think you just have to assume he is the everyday 2B. Chisenhall, not sure what you do. Probably go into the season with him as the everyday 3B, but that second half was a lot more of the same. He had 9 more Ks in the 2nd half in 16 less games and almost 50 less ABs.
So, while there are quite a few question marks, overall the product is set and solid. 1-6 is very strong.
The rotation should be good. As Hits said, you never want to stand pat in the pen, but I like our bullpen to be strong again. Atchison is a clear regression candidate. I just hope he didn't find the fountain of youth in a needle. The major issue is the offense. I just hope their plan isn't, "Swisher will be back and Kipnis will be better so we'll be fine." I don't know what the free agent market is going to be like this offseason.
My issue is that I don't see the division getting worse. The Tigers will spend to contend and be formidable no matter what right now. KC should be as good as this year. The White Sox have some nice pieces and I think it is addition by subtraction by losing dead weight in Dunn and Konerko. The Twins led baseball in run in August and September, I think. If they add a couple arms or get a couple breakout pitching performances from some of their young guns, they could be on the way back up as well.
We can't do nothing. I would say that RF is a huge hole for us. I don't see us being able to upgrade at 3B through free agency so unless we have somebody in the minors, it is going to be Lonnie. Lonnie was 8th in OPS in all 3rd basemen this year. 7th in BA. The only guys above him were Luis Valbuena, Seager, Frazier, Donaldson, Rendon, Harrison and Beltre. I don't see any of those guys coming.
Victor could be a free agent. Maybe he wants to come back to Cleveland and DH for us? That would put Swisher nearly out of a job (I question that he can RF everyday). -
Laley23
They ABSOLUTELY need to add pieces, I just think depth is what they need. I don't think they need to "upgrade" anything but RF. That's all I'm saying. Injuries happen, and regression happens. It's inevitable. But you can't go into an offseason thinking that, because you might replace the wrong guy or something. You can only go off of what is certain, and that is RF is a black hole and that we have an extra middle infielder (any of the 3) that are expendable for the right return. And teams will probably line up for Kipnis and Lindor, and many would give something for Ramirez. I would be totally fine shopping Kip and trying upgrade the offense and then roll with a 22 year old 2B and 21 year old SS.TBone14;1658682 wrote:I want to be as excited as you guys but I just can't right now. I don't think we can just close our eyes and wish that some of these guys will get better. We need help on offense. What if Kipnis has another season like this and he doesn't bounce back? What if Gomes gets hurt? It was a totally different offense when he was out with that concussion.
The rotation should be good. As Hits said, you never want to stand pat in the pen, but I like our bullpen to be strong again. Atchison is a clear regression candidate. I just hope he didn't find the fountain of youth in a needle. The major issue is the offense. I just hope their plan isn't, "Swisher will be back and Kipnis will be better so we'll be fine." I don't know what the free agent market is going to be like this offseason.
My issue is that I don't see the division getting worse. The Tigers will spend to contend and be formidable no matter what right now. KC should be as good as this year. The White Sox have some nice pieces and I think it is addition by subtraction by losing dead weight in Dunn and Konerko. The Twins led baseball in run in August and September, I think. If they add a couple arms or get a couple breakout pitching performances from some of their young guns, they could be on the way back up as well.
We can't do nothing. I would say that RF is a huge hole for us. I don't see us being able to upgrade at 3B through free agency so unless we have somebody in the minors, it is going to be Lonnie. Lonnie was 8th in OPS in all 3rd basemen this year. 7th in BA. The only guys above him were Luis Valbuena, Seager, Frazier, Donaldson, Rendon, Harrison and Beltre. I don't see any of those guys coming.
Victor could be a free agent. Maybe he wants to come back to Cleveland and DH for us? That would put Swisher nearly out of a job (I question that he can RF everyday). -
BRF
I am enjoying reading all the comments.
I will just throw in a few things for now:
Raburn mentioned.....was one of my favorites.....debacle year......that f-ing throw into the ground to add insult to injury.
The Axford experiment: thank God he was cut loose. I will never forget the set up to the season that he received.
Gomes: Fricking stud and thanks for all the clutch hitting.
What ever happened to Nyjer? Will he be back? <------edit....he was released?
Kluber: WOW!
More comments later. -
FootwedgeI think the tribe blew their season in the first half when Swisher was doing his this thing alongside of Masterson. The team played a lot better after the All Star break.
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GOONx19
No one has mentioned TJ House yet either. He had a 2.88 ERA with a 8-1 record over the last 2 months. Finished great. -
HitsRus
^^I think the staff is in great shape with great young pitching and DEPTH. I think what makes me so optimistic for next season is that the front office can go to work upgrading the team and not having to work on filling holes. They don't have to replace ANYBODY. That doesn't mean that they won't or that they don't want to...but all the holes are filled with at least adequate players. That makes a huge difference because they don't have to spend time, resources and money trying to find replacements for players that have left for free agency. The team does have some ammo for a blockbuster trade to bring in the power hitting right handed bat we so desperately need. That's a single solitary need...we don't have to search for 2 starters , a closer, etc etc etc.
As far as Swisher goes...I think his days as a RF are over. His age and his knees are not going to allow it. I think he is a DH and back up to Santana at first., depending on what other moves are made to bring in a big bat. I would not be surprised to see Bourn traded for whatever prospects we could get, and the money saved used to entice a free agent outfielder. -
Laley23
This is what I am thinking, but I think you stated it better lol.HitsRus;1658751 wrote:^^I think the staff is in great shape with great young pitching and DEPTH. I think what makes me so optimistic for next season is that the front office can go to work upgrading the team and not having to work on filling holes. They don't have to replace ANYBODY. That doesn't mean that they won't or that they don't want to...but all the holes are filled with at least adequate players. That makes a huge difference because they don't have to spend time, resources and money trying to find replacements for players that have left for free agency. The team does have some ammo for a blockbuster trade to bring in the power hitting right handed bat we so desperately need. That's a single solitary need...we don't have to search for 2 starters , a closer, etc etc etc.
As far as Swisher goes...I think his days as a RF are over. His age and his knees are not going to allow it. I think he is a DH and back up to Santana at first., depending on what other moves are made to bring in a big bat. I would not be surprised to see Bourn traded for whatever prospects we could get, and the money saved used to entice a free agent outfielder.
We are set in terms of positions expect RF, imo. Doesnt mean we cant/shouldnt/wont upgrade where and when its possible. But the team as of now is the best laid out team heading to an offseason since...2006/7??
And the pitching is as deep as I can ever remember. -
Footwedge
Well said. The emergence of TJ House is a shocker. Behind Kluber he was our best starting pitcher. Not bad for a 16 round draft pick who had an ERA over 4 in the minors. Don't know what Mickey C makes a year but it's not nearly enough.The Indians are in a great spot in that the starters are way underpaid for what they are producing. The window of opportunity to win it all is right now. Hopefully Dolan understands this. Don't care that Victor is 35 yeats old. I would go after him, even if it means jettisoning Kipnis and Swisher to make cap room.GOONx19;1658730 wrote:No one has mentioned TJ House yet either. He had a 2.88 ERA with a 8-1 record over the last 2 months. Finished great. -
Laley23
CC was our 2nd best pitcher.
House was a damn nice addition though. -
BR1986FBJesus.....Antonetti is the new Pat Shurmur. "We made incredible progress" or something to that effect. LOL
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HitsRus
...while dousing hopes for a big bat....implying that they are too expensive and just not available league wide. While not ruling out acquiring a big bat, Antonetti's wrap up stresees a 'balanced' lineup..
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BR1986FB
I get that. When I first heard this, my first thoughts were "don't expect them to go out and get a legit middle of the order stick." My thoughts were "looks like the old MacGiver patchwork chewing gum & fishing string lineup again."HitsRus;1658882 wrote:...while dousing hopes for a big bat....implying that they are too expensive and just not available league wide. While not ruling out acquiring a big bat, Antonetti's wrap up stresees a 'balanced' lineup.. -
Commander of Awesome
Fuck the dolans. -
TBone14
Honestly, I don't know if what we need is on the free agent market. There is a power hitting RH corner outfielder from Cuba in Yasmany Tomas that is going to be available. He will go to the highest bidder so unfortunately, that has never been us. But think Jose Abreu as an outfielder. Would love to take a chance on him.
MLB Trade Rumors put together a free agent Power Ranking. Here they are:
Scherzer
Lester
Shields
Hanley Ramirez
Pablo Sandoval
Victor Martinez
Yasmany Tomas
Melky Cabrera
Russell Martin
Nelson Cruz
Other position players:
Aramis Ramirez
Mike Morse
Asdrubal
JJ Hardy
Markakis
Stephen Drew
Kendrys Morales
I don't know. Nelson Cruz fits our need (RF/RH) but he hasn't been good since one of the hottest starts in recent history. Plus, he is 34. Markakis plays RF. Hits left. The worst BA of his career is .271 but he hasn't topped 60 RBI in 3 years. -
BR1986FB
V-Mart would supposedly love to come back here but a) he's 37 and b) I can't see fat boy Cabrera allowing his "protection" to leave. I'm sure Cabrera would beg Tigers ownership to pony up the $.TBone14;1658973 wrote:Honestly, I don't know if what we need is on the free agent market. There is a power hitting RH corner outfielder from Cuba in Yasmany Tomas that is going to be available. He will go to the highest bidder so unfortunately, that has never been us. But think Jose Abreu as an outfielder. Would love to take a chance on him.
MLB Trade Rumors put together a free agent Power Ranking. Here they are:
Scherzer
Lester
Shields
Hanley Ramirez
Pablo Sandoval
Victor Martinez
Yasmany Tomas
Melky Cabrera
Russell Martin
Nelson Cruz
Other position players:
Aramis Ramirez
Mike Morse
Asdrubal
JJ Hardy
Markakis
Stephen Drew
Kendrys Morales
I don't know. Nelson Cruz fits our need (RF/RH) but he hasn't been good since one of the hottest starts in recent history. Plus, he is 34. Markakis plays RF. Hits left. The worst BA of his career is .271 but he hasn't topped 60 RBI in 3 years. -
TBone14
Here is an article about Yasmany. Pipe dream for us. Giants, Phillies, Rangers, Tigers and Padres are the favorites at this point. If the Tigers get him and he ends up as Jose Abreu 2.0....God help me.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/yasmany-tomas -
TBone14
Vmart would be an upgrade...even at 37...at DH over any other option. All he has to do his hit 4-5 times a game so I think he has a couple good years left. Issue is Swisher. I don't know if we want him in Right everyday or if he can even do it anymore. He is solid at 1st which puts Santana at DH. Santana is solid at 1st so Swish can DH other days. Victor, as much as I would love him hitting .320 in the middle of the order, doesn't fit. Personally, I don't care about Swisher's feelings but I have a feeling the Tribe won't cut down his role provided he is healthy.BR1986FB;1658975 wrote:V-Mart would supposedly love to come back here but a) he's 37 and b) I can't see fat boy Cabrera allowing his "protection" to leave. I'm sure Cabrera would beg Tigers ownership to pony up the $. -
Con_AlmaSwisher can take over Giambi's role of pinch hitting once or twice a year.
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BR1986FBSwisher can be the bench cheerleader, bro......
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TBone14
Con_Alma;1658982 wrote:Swisher can take over Giambi's role of pinch hitting once or twice a year.
I am fine with this. Just don't think the brass is going to have a 12M a year cheerleader.BR1986FB;1658984 wrote:Swisher can be the bench cheerleader, bro......