Would a combined Reds and Indians team win the world series?

• lhslep134

  

  se-alum;1455613 wrote:My argument on the catchers was that Hanigan is a heck of a catcher and his career numbers prove it, but lhs wanted to look at this year only, so I conceded the catcher argument, and looked at this years numbers only for the pitchers.

  Career numbers (WAR)
  
  Ryan Hanigan 8.3 in 7 seasons
  
  Carlos Santana 9.9 in 4 seasons
• Ironman92

  

  se-alum;1455694 wrote:How about this:
  
  CF Bourn
  2B Phillips
  1B Votto
  DH Swisher
  RF Bruce
  SS Cabrera
  C Santana
  3B Reynolds
  LF Choo

  
  Why is Choo batting 14th?
• Ironman92

  

  Azubuike24;1455712 wrote:Forget the team arguments. Would there be series' threads or game threads?

  
  Both
• Rotinaj

  

  Azubuike24;1455712 wrote:Forget the team arguments. Would there be series' threads or game threads?

  Drarby would come back and create a thread per inning. Hed also have 10,000 posts by game 4.
• Terry_Tate

  

  Azubuike24;1455712 wrote:Forget the team arguments. Would there be series' threads or game threads?

  
  Literally LOL'd when I read this.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Reps to azu for that one.
  
  Someone neg lep for thinking people actually care about something called WAR.
• lhslep134

  

  Starting lineup only, this is what I would do
  
  I'm putting in Bruce over Bourn. I love Bourn, but I'd rather have him pinch hit and put Bruce in the lineup
  
  Choo RF
  Phillips 2B
  Votta 1B
  Santana C
  Bruce LF
  Swisher DH
  Reynolds 3B
  Cabrera SS
  Brantley CF
• lhslep134

  

  SportsAndLady;1455723 wrote:Reps to azu for that one.
  
  Someone neg lep for thinking people actually care about something called WAR.

  Neg reps for ignorance to advanced stats? Is this 1990?
• Laley23

  

  SportsAndLady;1455708 wrote:Because of a lot of reasons. But mainly because there are viable options in the 9 spot. Another reason is you're trying to fit a player perfectly into the 9 spot, in the meantime leaving out a top 5 hitter on this "team".

  Only other option might be Choo.
  
  And what makes Bruce a top 5 hitter? Just curious. He drives in 100 and hits 30 HRs. But he doesnt walk a lot, strikes out a lot and hits .250-.260.
  
  I mean, you have Votto, Phillips, Choo, Swisher, Bourn, Brantley, Santana. They all do things better than the other. Ive watched enough teams fail with line-ups that dont have it all and rely on power and station to station batting. Give me the more complete line-up, even if a better player might have to sit.
  
  The Yankees all those years, Angles this year, Dodgers, etc. They would all love to have more balance and some "pure average" guys.
• Ironman92

  

  WAR sucks.
  
  Chase Utley is 140 spots higher on the career list than Don Mattingly.
  
  I love Utley's game on both sides....but no way has he produced more wins above his replacement than guys with 1,000 more hits or 750 more RBI
  
  Ben Zobrist is not one of the best players the past few seasons.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Laley23;1455728 wrote:And what makes Bruce a top 5 hitter? Just curious. He drives in 100 and hits 30 HRs.

  Lol THAT!
  
  You answered your own question
• lhslep134

  

  Ironman92;1455730 wrote:
  Ben Zobrist is not one of the best players the past few seasons.

  Considering his position versatility, he's one of the most valuable, which is what the stat measures.
• Ironman92

  

  Also great that Brett Gardner in his 6 seasons has been responsible for more wins on defense than Torii Hunter and Carlos Beltran.
• Ironman92

  

  Ironman92;1455737 wrote:Also great that Brett Gardner in his 6 seasons has been responsible for more wins on defense than Torii Hunter and Carlos Beltran.

  Is Gardner so much more versatile?
• Terry_Tate

  

  Votto and Choo are above Bruce as hitters. Other than that Santana and Phillips each have an argument. Bourn is a tough comparison but his OBP for his career is only .009 higher than Bruce, so to get that and give up the power isn't worth it to me. Swisher is really really close to Bruce but I would put Bruce higher since he has better numbers this year. So to me he's a top 5 hitter between the 2.
• Ironman92

  

  According to WAR in 2011 Ben Zobrist was the most important player in baseball as he hit .269 with an .822 OPS.
• lhslep134

  

  Ironman92;1455737 wrote:Also great that Brett Gardner in his 6 seasons has been responsible for more wins on defense than Torii Hunter and Carlos Beltran.

  Well what does that say? That Torii has more highlight plays but Gardner is a better fielder. Can't digest that?!
• se-alum

  

  Ironman92;1455730 wrote:WAR sucks.
  
  Chase Utley is 140 spots higher on the career list than Don Mattingly.
  
  I love Utley's game on both sides....but no way has he produced more wins above his replacement than guys with 1,000 more hits or 750 more RBI
  
  Ben Zobrist is not one of the best players the past few seasons.

  
  Don't you dare downplay advanced stats, don't you dare!
• Ironman92

  

  lhslep134;1455745 wrote:Well what does that say? That Torii has more highlight plays but Gardner is a better fielder. Can't digest that?!

  
  No, not in 11 more seasons....it's idiotic. I'm not a Hunter fan at all but the guy was a great CF for a long time....Gardner is great....but just no way he's more responsible for more wins than Beltran and Hunter.
• lhslep134

  

  Dude look at the numbers. Gardner's zone rating blows Hunter's out of the water (career cumulative). Keep in mind these are numbers based on a guy's every single damn day performance which is something you don't watch (nor I).
• se-alum

  

  There isn't even a standard calculation for WAR.
• lhslep134

  

  Hunter has long been held up as an example of the questionable viability of defensive metrics by those who prefer visual analysis. His reputation is that of one of the game’s best outfielders, yet UZR has ranked him below average in CF for each of the last five years. The advanced metrics don’t think he’s terrible, just not anything special.
  The Angels apparently agree, or at least don’t disagree very strongly. If they saw the difference between Bourjos and Hunter as minimal, they wouldn’t have bothered to upset the apple cart by shifting Hunter over in favor of the rookie. They’re taking the risk of offending their highest paid player, which isn’t something an organization does on a whim. That Hunter is moving to right to accommodate Bourjos, and not vice versa, is a pretty good sign that the Angels believe that there’s a big gap in defensive value between the two.
  I think they’re correct, and they should be applauded for making a bold move that may not be particularly popular in some circles.

  
  
  This is essentially what you're saying, and I disagree with you.
  
• Azubuike24

  

  Maybe if both team owners read this thread, they might decide to merge, play all home games at Cooper Stadium and bring a World Series to the state of Ohio sometime in the 21st Century.
• lhslep134

  

  se-alum;1455758 wrote:There isn't even a standard calculation for WAR.

  I'm using Fangraphs. Go bitch to them if you're upset that WAR chooses Santana over Hanigan.
• Ironman92

  

  Career innings in OF
  
  Beltran 16,447
  Torii 16,311
  Gardner 4,044
  
  No fucking way Gardner has produced more defensive wins above his replacement.
  
  Believe what you want and post whatever you want in rebuttal.....I'm not believing it. WAR has it's place but too many inconsistencies. I'm done with this and it's ok that we don't agree.