2013 Cleveland Browns Thread: RIP Chud

• SMITTEMS

  

  Commander of Awesome;1392180 wrote:I've been saying for a while now, Dion Jordan at #6. It's Dion Jordan, Warmack or bust.

  So I take it you wouldn't want Milliner at 6? I think Sheldon Brown is a free agent which would make Skrine our other starting cb. I was thinking cb was one of our top needs.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  SMITTEMS;1392732 wrote:So I take it you wouldn't want Milliner at 6? I think Sheldon Brown is a free agent which would make Skrine our other starting cb. I was thinking cb was one of our top needs.

  Nope, horrible value. We trade down to the 20s then I'm fine with him.
  
  My prospect crush/wish list is
  
  Dion Jordan
  Warmack
  kenny vaccaro
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Off Day Tuesday: '13 Free Agency Preview
  		By Dave Kolonich OBR Browns Reporter Posted Feb 19, 2013 The following is part of a series that can be most easily described as a Free Agency preview. In case you missed it, here's the first installment of this year's quasi-look at NFL free agency: 3 Comments
  The following is part of a series that can be most easily described as a Free Agency preview. In case you missed it, here's the first installment of this year's quasi-look at NFL free agency: The All-Name Free Agent Team: Alex Smith* For the rest of you, I have already defined the criteria for this series (1-The player is a Free Agent that 2-even a Fantasy Football player can recognize) and have launched into a lengthy disclaimer about the folly of free agency - including the guiding common sense principle that asks if these players are so great, why didn't their teams already sign them to long-term contracts? In the case of today's All-Name Free Agent Team member, the answer could lie in the Pittsburgh Steelers' inability to control their consistent success and/or some bloated veteran contracts. Or something like that. Mike Wallace PROS: -Is Fast. Also has been described as having Top Speed. -Has proven to be a reliable deep target in the NFL. -Has produced during non-contract seasons. -Has a rare blend of youth and experience for an NFL free agent. -Wouldn't it be nice for the Browns to steal a Pittsburgh Steeler in his relative prime? -Exposed the machinations of prominent government and industry leaders. CONS: -The Steelers chose Antonio Brown over Wallace. -Is cashing in on his first mega NFL contract, which always factors into motivation. -Played much of 2012 with a focus on not getting hurt in order to get to 2013 free agency. -Could prove to be a really expensive version of Travis Benjamin -Could be a beneficiary of Ben Roethlisberger's broken coverage Extend-A-Plays. -Best games have essentially come against weak opponents and during losses. -That whole drops passes thing. Oh, right - the other Mike Wallace. Although I would love to have seen Wallace grill that grifter Mike Holmgren. Earlier in the week, I referenced how foreign free agency has become to the Browns - at least since the Wild West days of Phil Savage. Perhaps even stranger is the idea of a contemporary NFL team actually facing salary cap trouble - especially given the virtual lack of a true "hard cap." Yet, the Steelers are such a team - one that is roughly 10-15 million dollars over next year's projected cap. Such a financial dilemma was predominately why Wallace held out last summer and only reluctantly signed a restricted tender tag. It could be telling that the Steelers took the opportunity of Wallace's holdout to basically choose fellow wide receiver Antonio Brown to be the recipient of a long-term deal. Either from the perspective of overall talent, player and agent cooperation or as a matter of simple efficiency and economics, Wallace was left without the long-term security that he coveted heading into 2012. A year later, the Steelers are still sorting through a landscape of salary concerns, featuring the likes of young and old veterans - something that has likely propelled Wallace permanently away from Pittsburgh and into the free market. As for all this Pittsburgh narrative, it fits into the context of exactly why Wallace is a free agent - but also helps to excuse this very fact. In other words, Wallace is a very good NFL player and while not a classic top wide receiver, he is a near prototype of the kind of explosive athlete that an evolving NFL offense requires. And of course, had the Steelers been a bit more savvy in their financial dealings (or just a little more talent-starved), Wallace likely would have been taken care of many months ago. Yet, it is this very episode of Wallace's career which reveals the biggest risk a team such as the Browns would assume in making a huge free agent offer. Once he accepted the Steelers' restricted tag, Wallace was no longer the Pro Bowler of 2011 and adopted a more tentative style of play. Reports out of Pittsburgh suggested that Wallace was merely trying to stay physically intact in order to get a huge future payday - something that is both completely understandable and troublesome to a team like the Browns, whose rare free agent ventures are momentous occasions. Then again, there's much to be said regarding the Steelers' shift in offensive coordinators, their usual plague of offensive linemen, a serious injury to Ben Roethlisberger and a general sense that their veteran team got very old very fast in 2012. Wallace - like the majority of the Steelers' offense - suffered through the worst of his three seasons (for the sake of argument, let's discount his rookie season). Still, I'm pretty sure the Browns would be okay with a 2012 line like that. If you give Wallace the benefit of the doubt, you'll remember that the guy who was drafted after Brian Robiskie and Mohamed Massaquoi was on the verge of stardom in 2010 and 2011, posting nearly 2,500 combined receiving yards and 18 scores. A perfect storm of career and financial anxiety helped to derail what would become Wallace's contract year - something that is far too easy for us non-professional athletes to poke holes at. Wallace getting paid is secondary compared to the thought of him becoming the first Browns' receiver to legitimately stretch an opposing defense in years. If a Wallace to Cleveland event somehow occurs next month, the Browns would enter the 2013 season with a starting lineup of Wallace, Josh Gordon and Greg Little - a unique triumvirate featuring speed, size, agility and strength - something that can help to lessen Cleveland's perpetual existential quarterbacking question. Naturally, an upgrade in offensive coaching philosophy and play calling could help to further cull the production of such a young, naturally talented group. Add a tight end from April's draft and the Browns' long dormant offense suddenly appears potent. THE PICK: Of course, it's never this easy. Despite some really obvious claims regarding Jimmy Haslam's past Steelers' ties, the Browns are not a natural fit for either free agency or Wallace's services. In terms of Wallace's geographic ties and tastes of NFL success, Cleveland is a far hike for a kid from New Orleans who can already boast about scoring in a Super Bowl. In terms of actual money - which is usually the determining factor in NFL free agency - the Browns are allegedly now run by the tight-fisted Joe Banner, a trollish, cartoon villian of a killjoy who is bent on world destruction, which would effectively negate any pursuit of such a game-changing talent. Or, it's becoming evident that several teams - most of which are far better than the Browns - are going to be throwing money at Wallace, for the exact same reasons outlined above. It's rare that a player like Wallace slips into full free agency in today's NFL and once this realization coincides with the actual start of the process, Wallace's worth becomes astronomical. Yet, considering that the Browns are basically the NFL antithesis of the Steelers, the ability to lure Wallace to the lake front presents the apex of impossibly rare occurrences. The Browns' recent history of futility and discount youth movements have set them up to benefit from the Steelers' lavish success - a statement that is profoundly depressing yet extraordinarily encouraging if only in this regard: The Browns have a LOT of money to spend in free agency. And Wallace just might be worth it.

  http://cle.scout.com/2/1267879.html
• CLEconomically Speaking

  

  Commander of Awesome;1392760 wrote:Nope, horrible value. We trade down to the 20s then I'm fine with him.
  
  My prospect crush/wish list is
  
  Dion Jordan
  Warmack
  kenny vaccaro

  I like Warmack. I like Vaccaro if we trade down. I'd rather have Rambo at FS though (third round?). I'm the happiest if we trade down and get a OG (Barrett Jones?) and a pass rusher like Jelani Jenkins OLB or John Simon DE in the Second.
• CLEconomically Speaking

  

  They will--and should--get Bray though.. it's just a matter of when 3rd or 4th round
• Commander of Awesome

  

  CLEconomically Speaking;1392770 wrote:I like Warmack. I like Vaccaro if we trade down. I'd rather have Rambo at FS though (third round?). I'm the happiest if we trade down and get a OG (Barrett Jones?) and a pass rusher like Jelani Jenkins OLB or John Simon DE in the Second.

  I think Vaccaro is a top 10 talent, just people under value the safety position. If we're looking at drafting a guard in the top 10, you HAVE to consider a safety, esp him. He's the only legit complete FS in this draft IMO. FS have won DPoY couple times in the past few seasons, and we desperately need one. There are a few other FS I like, but with the lack of a 2nd round pick we probably can't pick up David Amerson in the 2nd.
• zach24oz

  CLEconomically Speaking;1392770 wrote:I like Warmack. I like Vaccaro if we trade down. I'd rather have Rambo at FS though (third round?). I'm the happiest if we trade down and get a OG (Barrett Jones?) and a pass rusher like Jelani Jenkins OLB or John Simon DE in the Second.

  John Simon will probaly be around in the 3rd...I don't think he'll be taken in the first 2 rounds. I would take a pass rusher at 6 or if you can trade back a few and still get one that's even better. Assuming they get a second rounder with the trade, they can then take a S,CB or OL
• SportsAndLady

  

  Only 7 starting QBs in NFL were not first round picks.
  
  http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.php
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Top Ten Draft Prospects
  		By Richard Phipps OBR Contributing Writer Posted Feb 21, 2013 Jordan’s size and overall attributes make him an ideal candidate for an outside linebacker in a 34 scheme or a weak side end in a 43 scheme. 1 Comment
  With the NFL Combine underway, here is a break down my Top Ten NFL Draft Prospects and how each could potentially fit with the Cleveland Browns. 1. Star Lotulelei (DT/NT-Utah) 6’3 320lbs - Senior A monster plug in the middle of the Utes defense, Lotulelei’s elite draft grade dates back to the early portions of the 2011 season. His true impact on the game doesn’t show up on the stats sheet, though he registered 10 tackles for loss and 5 sacks in 2012. What Star does better than any draft prospect since Ndamukong Suh is swallow up offensive lineman, often times two or three at a time, creating opportunistic mismatches for his fellow defensive lineman while keeping his interior linebackers clean. As a sophomore in 2010, Lotulelei spent time at offensive guard, subbing in for snaps in multiple games. It speaks to Star’s true athleticism, as his size, exceptional strength and violent hands tend to pigeonhole him, unfairly, as a run stuffer only. The reality is, Lotulelei has the burst and bend to easily push the A gap on passing downs, and he’s got the versatility to even kick outside to a 5 technique along 3 man fronts. Is he a good fit for the Browns? In all likelihood, Star will be off the board by the time the Browns pick. If he is still on the board, he could be too enticing to pass up as a defensive end along their 3 man front. If the comparisons to Haloti Ngata hold true, he will be an elite talent wherever he’s plugged in. 2. Chance Warmack (OG-Alabama) 6’2 320lbs – Senior Many would balk at the notion that an offensive guard could be valued as the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] best prospect in any draft class, but Warmack isn’t your typical interior lineman. Chance is viewed by many evaluators as a complete guard, a phenom capable of manhandling defensive tackles at the line of scrimmage with his sensational strength and an athletic road grader possessing the footwork to fluidly hit the second level and easily wipe out linebackers and defensive backs. According to Alabama record keepers, Warmack was credited with missing 7 assignments on 728 snaps played in 2012, allowing 3.5 sacks on 287 pass attempts. Chance has started every game at left guard the past three seasons, helping to pave the way for individual rushing performances exceeding 100 yards in 23 of those 39 games. Is he a good fit for the Browns? Many would argue the biggest holes in the Browns offense are the guards on each side of center Alex Mack. Chance would be an immediate starter between Joe Thomas and Mack and would help solidify an offensive line matched by few teams in the NFL. His market value will be debated fiercely leading into the draft, as guards simply do not get picked in the Top Ten. 3. Matt Barkley (QB-Southern Cal) 6’2 230lbs - Senior Is Matt Barkley just another USC quarterback? It’s the most hotly debated topic of this year’s draft season. Barkley measured a full 6’2” at the Manning Passing Academy this past fall and certainly has the girth for the position, so concerns about his size have somewhat diminished. However, concerns about his arm strength remain, though the velocity of his passes were noticeably improved in 2012. What shows up on tape is a confident, smart quarterback completely in charge of his offense. His most elite attribute is his vision, something he showcased well in his final two years at USC, resembling a professional with his ability to move off receivers, zoning in on 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], 3[SUP]rd[/SUP], even 4[SUP]th[/SUP] options in his passing tree. A lingering right shoulder sprain caused him to miss his final two collegiate games, as well as an important date at the Senior Bowl. On February 11[SUP]th[/SUP], Barkley told the Pensacola News Journal that he plans on participating in every drill at the NFL Combine. It’s almost a certainty that he will master the interview process with his high intellect on the blackboard and laid back personality. If he throws well and shows that he’s near 100%, it could secure his spot in the Top 10, and potentially, the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] overall pick in the NFL Draft. Is he a good fit for the Browns? Word out of Berea seems to indicate that the new front office and coaching staff are not sold on last season’s rookie starter, Brandon Weeden. While most feel the Browns will look for a veteran through free agency or trade, the possibility of drafting a quarterback in the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] round, for two consecutive years, remains a possibility. If so, Barkley could win over Norv Turner, who has plenty of clout with Head Coach Rob Chudzinski. 4. Jarvis Jones (OLB-Georgia) 6’2 240lbs – Redshirt Junior No evaluation of Jones can begin without first investigating a major medical red flag, his battle with cervical spinal stenosis, an ailment that recently forced Chargers left tackle, All-Pro Marcus McNeil, into early retirement. In 2009, as a freshman playing meaningful snaps at Southern Cal, Jones injured his neck against Oregon and was forced to sit out the remainder of the year. Following the season, the USC medical staff failed to clear Jones to resume football activities, telling him he would never play again. He found a home in Athens, where the Georgia medical staff worked with him and ultimately cleared him to resume his career. It didn’t take Jones long to get back to his old form, posting 13.5 sacks as a sophomore in 2011. He followed that up with a monster 2012 season, which included 24.5 tackles for loss, 14.5 sacks, 20 hurries and 7 forced fumbles… just two years removed from being told that he would never play football again. Is he a good fit for the Browns? The injury is scary, and its long-term effects are an unknown, but no other defensive player in this year’s class has the resume of Jones, who is easily the best pass rushing talent available. His medicals at the NFL Combine will likely determine his market value more than any other prospect in this class. 5. Luke Joeckel (OT-Texas A&M) 6’6 310lbs - Junior An athletic boulder that’s nearly impossible to get around, Joeckel is the type of left tackle prospect that immediately gives their quarterback piece of mind, as he simply doesn’t allow any disturbance in the passing game from the blind side. He has elite height and athleticism and has been battle-tested by top notch collegiate pass rushers since he started as a true freshman in 2010, never missing a game in that span. One concern in his game is his overall strength, as Joeckel was put on the ground at an alarming rate last season, mostly a result of losing the leverage battle with defensive ends like LSU’s Sam Montgomery, who consistently bull rushed him in their matchup, recording two hurries on the quarterback in that game. However, his consistency is hard to overlook, as he allowed only 10 pressures and 2 sacks for the entire 2012 season and seems to be getting better each year. Is he a good fit for the Browns? With Joe Thomas and Mitchell Schwartz set in stone as bookend starters, the Browns are all but certain to bypass on the left tackle product.

• Commander of Awesome

  

  6. Eric Fisher (OT-Central Michigan) 6’7 305lbs – Senior
  
  Fisher is a versatile lineman with nimble feet and a good knack for winning the angle battle. He’s started at right tackle and right guard earlier in his collegiate career, but has owned the left tackle position for the Chippewas the past two seasons, minus his final two games in 2011, which he missed due to a knee injury. His senior season was spectacular, as he was credited with allowing only 1 sack throughout the 2012 campaign, continuing his rise through the Senior Bowl, where he was regarded by many as the best talent there, regardless of position.
  Fisher can be quite physical at times, but on film he has a bad tendency to allow defenders first contact, something he was able to absorb and work with in MAC play, but a nasty habit that could hamper his career early if it’s not corrected. There isn’t a prospect in this class who has improved their stock as much as Fisher has over the past six months, and that momentum will likely make him a Top 8 selection come April.
  Is he a good fit for the Browns? See Luke Joeckel.
  7. Damontre Moore (DE/OLB-Texas A&M) 6’4 250lbs – Junior
  Perhaps the most versatile pass rusher in this year’s class, Damontre accumulated 21 tackles for loss and 12.5 sacks this past season, doing it from both sides of the line, sometimes standing up and other times from a 3 point stance. Moore possesses violent hands and exceptional lower body strength, allowing him to consistently win leverage battles with bigger offensive lineman. If there is a knock on Damontre, it’s his lack of bend when turning the corner, a trait that is vital for a pass rusher to be successful at the next level.
  Moore looked terrific in his biggest SEC matchups of the season, dominating the Florida offensive line, giving fits to LSU’s and Alabama’s. One potential character red flag is his arrest in Brazos County, Texas in 2010, when he was pulled over with more than two ounces of marijuana in his possession.
  Is he a good fit for the Browns? With his ability to stand up or drop to a 3 point stance, Moore is likely slotted near the top of the Browns Big Board, as he seems like an ideal talent for Defensive Coordinator Ray Horton. Moore’s timing and interviews at the NFL Combine will be critical, though it’s not likely Moore will slip out of the Top 10 even if he performs average in the drills.
  8. Xavier Rhodes (CB-Florida State) 6’2 215lbs – Redshirt Junior
  The best man-to-man corner in the class, Rhodes uses a suffocating combination of size, quickness and physicality to deflate and defeat wide receivers over the course of a game. His nickname should be glue, as he seems to stick to the waist of his assignments, thanks in large part to very fluid hips and natural instincts that simply cannot be taught.
  One downside to Rhodes may be his numbers, picking off 3 passes this year after managing only 1 in 2011. There are questions about his true downfield speed, yet the film shows a fast corner capable of going step-for-step with speedsters like Clemson’s Sammy Watkins and DeAndre Hopkins, Miami’s Phillip Dorsett and Virginia Tech’s Marcus Davis. None of the above managed much against Rhodes, nor did any other receiver in 2012.
  Is he a good fit for the Browns? Cleveland will explore every possibility in the draft and free agency as they attempt to find a #2 corner to pair with perennial Pro-Bowler Joe Haden. Rhodes has the size and physicality to flourish in Horton’s aggressive scheme, and may remind Horton of one of his former corners, the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] overall pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, Patrick Peterson.
  9. Bjoern Werner (DE-Florida State) 6’4 255lbs – Junior
  The impressive German entered the 2012 season with incredibly high expectations after a stellar 2011 sophomore campaign where he notched 11 tackles for loss and 7 sacks. He nearly doubled his sack output as a junior, notching 13 of them, in addition to 18 tackles for loss and 7 passes batted or tipped at the line of scrimmage. Werner uses a combination of brute strength and above-average quickness to toy with offensive lineman, though he must develop more speed moves to succeed at the next level.
  Werner made a wise decision to sign with Jimmy Sexton of Creative Artists Agency, a well-respected agent with plenty of pull in NFL circles. With a strong performance at the NFL Combine, and Sexton marketing his services, Werner will likely be a Top 10 draft selection in April.
  Is he a good fit for the Browns? Werner’s body and preferred style of play may relegate him to a base 43 end, working primarily out of a 3 point stance. Though it’s not completely out of question, the Browns are likely looking for a little more athleticism out of their pass rushers as the team transitions to a 34.
  10. Dion Jordan (DE/OLB-Oregon) 6’6 240lbs – Redshirt Senior
  A converted tight end with elite athleticism, Jordan pushed his way onto draft boards following a breakout 2011 campaign, his first season as a starting drop end in the Ducks defense, a season which included 13 tackles for loss and 7.5 sacks. He started the 2012 season strong, notching 5 sacks in his first seven games before tearing his labrum against Colorado in late October. Jordan played through the injury for the remainder of the season, showing true grit and outstanding leadership qualities that pro personnel managers salivate over.
  Jordan’s size and overall attributes make him an ideal candidate for an outside linebacker in a 34 scheme or a weak side end in a 43 scheme. He has experience dropping back into coverage, an aspect of his game which he improved on as a senior. His outstanding bend and flexibility, when attacking the line of scrimmage, suggests he will be a very effective pass rusher at the next level.
  Is he a good fit for the Browns? Jordan is likely a top target on the Browns draft board, whether they stay at #6 or attempt to trade down into the low teens. His market value is volatile going into the NFL Combine, with many experts pegging him as a Top 10 pick and others sliding him into the late 1[SUP]st[/SUP] round.
• like_that

  

  Try and trade down a few spots, then draft Warmack.
• BR1986FB

  like_that;1393620 wrote:Try and trade down a few spots, then draft Warmack.

  Good luck with that. With the talent pool not being much different between #5 and #25, they are going to have to find someone absolutely gaga over a player. Maybe one of the QB's rises but, right now, there isn't a QB worth a top 20 pick.
• like_that

  

  BR1986FB;1393633 wrote:Good luck with that. With the talent pool not being much different between #5 and #25, they are going to have to find someone absolutely gaga over a player. Maybe one of the QB's rises but, right now, there isn't a QB worth a top 20 pick.

  Yeah, it is def wishful thinking. I was hoping someone would salvitate for one of the pass rushers or maybe milliner.
• BR1986FB

  like_that;1393634 wrote:Yeah, it is def wishful thinking. I was hoping someone would salvitate for one of the pass rushers or maybe milliner.

  Horrible draft for top tier talent. A lot of JAG's.
• CLEconomically Speaking

  

  I wouldn't mind going deeper into the first round. The mayock 5-25 theory will make trading up or down a few spots highly unlikely, but I think theres at least one playoff team that would love to move up to a top ten pick.
• like_that

  

  BR1986FB;1393635 wrote:Horrible draft for top tier talent. A lot of JAG's.

  I don't think it is a horrible draft. I think there are a lot of guys who can start from day 1 and contribute. People are just down on this draft because there isn't a big name QB or WR.
• wes_mantooth

  

  like_that;1393663 wrote:I don't think it is a horrible draft. I think there are a lot of guys who can start from day 1 and contribute. People are just down on this draft because there isn't a big name QB or WR.

  Seems like the skill positions are way down, but there is plenty of depth on the defensive side of the ball.
• BR1986FB

  Anyone interested in being without a 2nd AND a 3rd in this draft?
  
  http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=13101
• Commander of Awesome

  

  BR1986FB;1393756 wrote:Anyone interested in being without a 2nd AND a 3rd in this draft?
  
  http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=13101

  Not for that bum.
• CLEconomically Speaking

  

  BR1986FB;1393756 wrote:Anyone interested in being without a 2nd AND a 3rd in this draft?
  
  http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=13101

  I don't see how alex smith makes this team better. Two words:vertical offense
• buckeyes_woowee

  In my opinion Alex Smith is a little bit better version of Colt McCoy. Look at Smith before Harbaugh came in. He was horrible. No thanks on him. I would rather grab a guy late in the draft and let Weeden have a chance in a real offense.
• SportsAndLady

  

  No thanks on that..id rather stay with Weeden.
• BR1986FB

  buckeyes_woowee;1393863 wrote:In my opinion Alex Smith is a little bit better version of Colt McCoy. Look at Smith before Harbaugh came in. He was horrible. No thanks on him. I would rather grab a guy late in the draft and let Weeden have a chance in a real offense.

  His "breakout" year in Norv's offense was 16 TD's & 16 INT's. Kind of Weeden-like if you ask me.
• shook_17

  

  Get Chance Wamack this year, with Weeden and Richardson, maybe a little Hartline, Wallace, Welker, or good slot wide out and this offense could make some noise next year.
• CLEconomically Speaking

  

  shook_17;1394251 wrote:Get Chance Wamack this year, with Weeden and Richardson, maybe a little Hartline, Wallace, Welker, or good slot wide out and this offense could make some noise next year.

  Draft Warmack and sign Geoff Schwartz: Picture an o-line of Thomas Warmack Mack Schwatz Schwartz